Damn. Sometimes I make as much sense as an ostentatious waffle apostrophe…
What I mean by that is where one person accumulates a lot of votes, and the other suspects only gain one or two apiece. On one of the Days there was a three-way tie for a little while, which was good. Putting people under pressure can lead to slipups - so pressuring many people is better than just the one.
I don’t know about JC. Looking back at my (incomplete) notes, it seems as though he has accused Seeker, Daphne and Tel, which could be flying under the radar as so many other people have trageted them. Also, if we are continuously coming to the wrong conclusions by ourselves then the wolves would sit back, post little and “me too” like crazy.
On the other hand, maybe we are not coming to the wrong conclusions by ourselves. I still feel that the town is getting swayed by some clever wolves, while some other wolves are keeping a low profile. At least, that is how I would play it. In that regard the obvious examples are Tel and Daphne. Non-obvious examples include the high volume, low suspicion posters I keep harping on about.
Shit needs to start flying, people, and some of it needs to stick. We need to create a close vote count between the players under suspicion to see how they react. If someone is on your radar but has a low vote count, vote for them, even if they are not the most suspicious person. We can all change our votes later, but for now we need to turn up the heat.
Are you kidding me? Clearly I haven’t been posting enough for your taste all along; you’ve made that abundantly clear. But before my post 1043 - which you practically pushed me into, given your repeated and groundless accusations - how have I been posting “in a confrontational style”? Please.
Rule 1: When you’re in a hole, Daphne, stop digging. You’re just making me more and more sure my votes against you were the right thing to do.
Elendil, come on. I’m not the only person who has a problem with your style. I don’t think my accusation, or others’, of you has been groundless. You’ve been playing anti-town, or not at all. I’m not sure how little ol’ me can be said to have ‘pushed you’ into anything. I’m not offended you voted for me, or anything. You seem to resent that I and other have actually asked you to play the game! I’m not in any hole, man.
JC, I have been making a lot of accusations, yes. I don’t think I can really deny that. And I have posted a lot, as you say, getting a lot of conversations going, trying to draw people out. I haven’t been trying to avoid attention drawn to myself – if I was doing that, I’d post like you have! I don’t think you can really say I’ve only been chattering – I’ve been trying to find scum, and that requires talking to people. It’s not like I’ve been asking people about the weather here.
I said yesterday we’ve needed to focus on the lower-volume posters, who’ve been receiving lower suspicion. I looked at your posts, and what I saw looked scummy.
Re: Telcontar. I’ve not gone after him too much, at least compared to how much he’s gone after me (though perhaps he has finally come to his senses!). I think I’ve been pretty clear on why people (including myself at times, especially early on) have found him suspicious.
People have been repeating that I ‘make a lot of accusations’. I guess I’m a bit confused. I do tend to change my focus as Days go on, and things develop, or I see something new and interesting and get distracted by that for a while. I suppose I have been a lot freer than most in this game to say when I thought something was scummy, or suspicious. To me, challenging people on something you find suspicious is a pro-town thing to do. Arguments to the contrary have not really been made. In the games I’ve read, the most useful pro-town players are the ones who don’t let things slide, who get people talking. There are plenty of people who have not been ‘accused’ by me, because I haven’t seen them do anything that seemed scummy. I know for a fact (sorry again, Freudian!) that I’ve been wrong a lot about things being scummy, but that’s not going to stop me from pointing stuff out as I see it.
I have posted too much, though. I see that now. Guess I was just excited to be playing the game again, but at this point I think that’s been a bit anti-town of me, maybe I’ve been drowning people out. So I’m sorry about that. I’ll try to keep myself under control a bit more, rather than posting whatever comes into my head. However this post is now ridiculously long, and I need to go to bed.
I do want to make clear, in case I’ve been too brash and it hasn’t come across properly. I’ve been playing this game for all it’s worth, and if I accused you in a tone that was harsh, I assure you that nothing OOG is meant by it.
Do we have any kind of plan for when you might share information with us? If we kill a rancher toDay and you are a farmer, you should probably share. If we kill a farmer toDay and you are a rancher, you should probably share.
It seems that the wolves are killing the opposite of what we kill, which makes me believe they have a cop/investigator.
Zeriel, have you revealed your farmer/rancher status?
Well, it still is strange… suppose we kill a farmer, and that turn they investigate someone who turns out to be a farmer, then how do they kill a rancher?
I asked ped whether the wolves know the alignments of the townsfolk and he refused to answer… either he is jerking our chain, or that is the answer.
I think we need to delve deeper into the Power Roles, and Zeriel.
Way I see the “alignment detective” role as it’s been laid out here is that it’s a fairly benign power. As MHaye (and I think a couple others) has pointed out, it is highly likely that wolves have a rancher/farmer status.
It’s also probably self-evident by the fact that **Zeriel **is still alive (not killed by the wolves) that it’s not a power that worries the wolves. Taking as an assumption that **Zeriel **is telling the truth, of course.
So what good is this power then? It probably gives an advantage to the rancher/farmer end-game win state, no doubt - but we as a town need to realize that beginning to identify wolves is a far higher priority right now.
I repeat what I said yesterday - **Zeriel **you are being very anti-town by not responding to requests to reveal who you’ve tested and/or the test results. Or even to explain the reasoning behind why you won’t give out any information. We need to confirm that you are who you say you are, to help the town reduce the pool of testees/lynchees.
This is worth discussing. I think because there is such an imbalance scum will probably lie about their job and either way we will have a concentration of scum greater then we would have in the population as a whole. I like it but there is the problem that people have brought up that once we divide into fractions we will lose some of our ability to act as a town but at this point I think we’re so far behind it might be worth a shot.
Bleached
Yes, I was trying to intentionally mischaracterize your posts that’s why I quoted both of the relevant portions in my post and when I went back and read my post I noticed you only want a list of names and not their roles. So you’re not inconsistent, and I withdraw that accusation.
I don’t think a list of names will do us any good because if Z is a wolf whatever townies claim will be truthful and Z can ‘verify’ whatever wolves claim. Since the entire town hasn’t been tested there is no way to say that only townies have been picked so there is no reason to think that Z would have to catch someone in a lie.
But we could use Z when we follow Daphne’s idea above just to double check people.
Bleached
So I think this means that I’m on your radar but I don’t have enough votes to be a vote leader so you’re turning up the pressure? In that case I’m going to need some accusations to defend myself against other wise all I can say is I am town, which does none of us any good. So you got any reasons along with that vote?
Bad idea, keep posting. Either you’re town and you will keep prodding and uncover something or you’re a wolf and will eventually make a slip, both are good for town.
I can’t see how whether or not the wolves have an investigator is even relevant at this time.
It is most likely pure coincidence that the alignment of their kills is how it is. In fact, I forget who posted it but a very valid argument was made that it is in the wolves’ interest to kill only one alignment, not try and balance it out. Reason being that a balanced group of ranchers/farmers are more likely to focus solely on killing wolves, while an unbalanced group means the alignment that is being culled needs to think both about the wolves and about the end-game win. Which creates more confusion, to the wolves’ benefit.
I am not revealing my investigations because I’m saving that for the endgame–after all, only one of the factions can win, and unless I catch a wolf in an outright lie (which they’d be stupid to do knowing that I’m still ambulatory) it doesn’t help us at this time. So I’m trying to build up useful information for endgame since my power is basically worthless in a wolf hunt.
I have not yet expressly revealed my farmer/rancher status.
I’ve accused MHaye of PIS due to his calling me a rancher when I hadn’t claimed anything, because in the last game I was in he did something like that and he was the scum investigator.
I just did a read through on Telcontar and while something about him is bugging me, I think it’s just a personality thing, I don’t find him as suspicious. Now I wouldn’t be against lynching him just because I think there might be something to find but he has been demoted to number two on my list. So with that in mind I’m going to switch over and
Sorry for the delay in this post - Monday’s a suck day in technical support.
Responding to a few issues:
Re: Zeriel being the “obvious” kill. This assumes two things: that Zeriel is confirmed town power role, which hasn’t yet been proven, and even greater than that the wolves have a desire to remove an investigative role that can specify townie factions. Frankly, I think that even if Zeriel is telling the truth, Zeriel’s relative lack of participation has not made her a particularly attractive target for other reasons, and if anything the wolves will want to play up the townie faction divide more than anything. It hasn’t been a significant factor so far, which is probably good, but in the endgame it makes sense for the wolves to leave all possibilities in place for townies to kill one another to boost their faction’s position. Granted, our lack of success in killing wolves has been the major stumbling point for such a plan: until it’s likely we’re down to a single wolf, it doesn’t make sense for town to do this. Nonetheless I think the townie factions and Zeriel in particular have value to the wolves as an ‘insurance policy’, assuming Zeriel is telling the truth. (Incidentally, I agree with Telcontar that this is likely a good bet, as we haven’t had a counter-claim and it would be extremely unlikely for only one faction to have an investigative power.)
Re: Adrian’s kill. It’s hard to know what to think about this. Ultimately I tend to agree that it is a bit of a null tell, particularly in regards to Telcontar: because of Telcontar’s history of being voted for by a significant pool, it’s unlikely that the wolves would be tagging Adrian solely for this purpose, but at the same time I don’t think the wolves would have avoided Adrian even if Telcontar is a wolf. I think that Adrian was likely chosen as a “safe” target: one that was unlikely to point any particular fingers at any wolf. After all, we have had zero wolf kills to date, haven’t identified the Testerizer code, and have lost a significant part of our main advantage (numbers); they don’t need to make a risky play at this point.
I’m saddened to agree. I don’t know if we have enough time left to determine if the Testerizer will help us at all; while I do think we should try to test our lynch candidate, at this point we cannot guarantee it. To that point, I will try to make it a priority to be available between now and test time as much as possible.
To that end – my list of suspects is short. Sadly, I am used to analyzing voting patterns, and up to today there really has been a major short of non-contentious votes. The only person I would stringently reject voting is Zeriel, as I think she’s the closest we have to a trusted townie. Right now I’ve been considering the arguments (or properly, lack thereof) so far.
So far, I think the most compelling candidate is Oredigger. In particular, I’d like to reprise one of his quotes:
This doesn’t make sense. They’ve left an investigative role alive this long, with results unrevealed to the town; unless they simultaneously take out Zeriel, it doesn’t make sense to be caught in such an obvious lie. Frankly, as much as I hate to say it (because lying is such a strong scum tell generally) it does make sense, in endgame, for townies to lie about their roles in certain circumstances, since getting rid of the opposite faction is just as much a part of their win condition as getting rid of wolves. Yes, I think it’s unwise to do so early but there’s a reason why there’s been lack of traction for your idea of a mass-claim: it’s simply not a pro-town idea. Bringing the factions forward is only going to weaken town, not strengthen it, and you’ve been fumbling about for a reason for the town to do so. You’ve been pinging me for a little while, and looking back you’re repeatedly bringing up the farmer/rancher split – to the point of phrasing the discussion consistently as farmer/rancher/wolf, instead of town/wolf. I’d like to know what you’re about, since it feels to me like you are trying to divide the town prematurely, and without any benefit that I can conceive.
test Oredigger77 vote Oredigger77
For the record, my next best candidate is Daphne. I agree with what’s been said, why switch from EH to Justin Credible? You can point the finger at someone without voting for a test, and if you think EH is scum, it’s strange that you would stick your test vote on someone who has no votes at all. This cries out as not wanting to get your hands dirty. I agree with you, Daphne, that making lots of accusations tends to be pro-town behavior. At the same time, shifting your votes to people who are unlikely to be vote leaders tends to be scum behavior. I bring this up as a back-up plan because I’m concerned that we have not been successful considering multiple candidates, particularly in subtantive terms – the last thing we need is a last-minute scramble to lynch (which is probably just as bad as another practically unanimous lynch).
I’m not a fan of going after Telcontar (who seems to be a perpetual suspect with no argument for such suspicion at all anymore). If there is some evidence against him, I’d like to see it, but thus far it just seems too easy to keep carrying him forward as a potential candidate just because he ‘feels’ scummy. EH is also a possibility, though my concern is that (being a newbie) a low post count and lack of input is less damning. However, EH, you need to step forward and defend your arguments. It’s not enough to just vote for someone, you need to explain why, and to cite reasons for your arguments. It’s scum-like behavior to just say “they just feel scummy” since it doesn’t give any real information or use any facts; a vote without a reason is never pro-town. Speak up.
To be fair, fluid, Oredigger was responding there to something I said.
I have explained why I made the case for Justin. I am more than happy to vote for Elendil, and at this rate it does look like he’ll be a more viable candidate (for lynch, at least, which I am now focusing on). There is more than one scum out there, I have never backed away from my suspicion of Elendil.
I disagree that voting for someone ‘who is unlikely to be a vote leader’ (how would I know that? the point of making a case for someone, presumably, is to try to convince people to agree with you; at this point, Elendil has as many votes as Justin, anyhow. That’s a weird thing to say) early on in the day is scummy. What’s the scum motivation in my doing the work to point out how scummy Justin looks?
I agree we have not been successful at considering multiple candidates. I am trying to change that, insofar as we can. Our strategy so far has not been real successful at finding scum, has it? What’s the scum motivation in trying to get town to try something different and breaking unhelpful patterns?
Oy. I know I said I would try to post a bit less, but I have to apologise for the remarkably wretched syntax in the above post. I hope my point(s) are clear, despite it.
Speaking of Telcontar and evidence, post #975 was, I guess, me just a-peeing in the wind, for all the effect it had. You were so unmoved that you’re ignoring it?
Zeriel revealing his or her tests, I agree, is not something that’s particularly likely to help the town, when you think about it. I understand why someone in his position would sit on the information. We’re not all on the same side in the end, after all. Why stir that up now?
I also think that every vote that says “Oh, I’m going to vote for this person because I want to put the pressure on him/her” isn’t very likely to do that, in fact it looks constructed specifically to achieve the opposite. I mean, for god’s sake, people, don’t say it, just do it! A vote that puts a name out there and at the same time disclaims any strong suspicion might as well be a wolf’s vote – you’re letting the person off the hook at the same time you’re claiming to get them on it.
“Oh, Jimmy Chitwood hasn’t been voted for, I’m going to say I’m voting for him, because everyone needs to be threatened! Nobody tell him it isn’t real!”
I tried waiting for it to shake out, but I haven’t seen anything very compelling other than the above. My suspicions have and still do stand.
I’ll try to keep myself under control a bit more, rather than posting whatever comes into my head. However this post is now ridiculously long, and I need to go to bed.