Says who?
You.
So you can quote me saying it, then…
(So, class, who can tell me which kind of fallacy Deth has obviously fallen for? Why, yes, Sally, it is an association fallacy. Gold star!)
So if machines arent self aware, what is wrong with killing them in Westworld?
You have claimed that is evil and inhumane.
It isn’t all or nothing, Dolores might be sentient, but that doesn’t mean factory robots are, or the security killbot, or floor cleaning robots.
Hell, it might be that Dolores, Bernard and Maeve are the only sentient robots, and the rest are still just unthinking hosts with really good programming.
Sure, I can buy that, as indeed, Dolores slaughtered hundreds of her fellow robots.
But we can posit that Westworld used robots to clean, and at what point are they self aware? I can accept cleaning robots arent- but where is the line drawn- and how can humans tell?
IF it is only those three- and maybe a few more- then that makes sense. But then the humans arent really evil from gunning down the banditos on a white hat scenario. They are no more self aware that the figures in GTA. Note that in at least one point in GTA, the game figure begs you not to kill it.
Yeah, I don’t want to make any hard claims about which robots are sentient and which aren’t. I remember early on when the hosts were introduced at a party, the people were astounded to find put that they were robots, and I seem to recall that part of the astonishment was that no one thought current tech was at that level. So I would guess from that scene that the average robots people are used to don’t show much sign of real intelligence, but that hosts are probably at least somewhat sentient in their loops.
Or maybe it’s the development of sentience that allows them to break out of their loops. In that case, It’s probably only Dolores, Maeve and Bernard. For example, Hector could be reprogrammed and forget that he was anywhere but in his current loop, but that doesn’t work for Maeve or Dolores.
By comparison, look at the robot that Caleb was working with, or the massive riot control one. Neither showed much sign of intelligence.
[sic]
Yep, Sally was right…
Here. I’ll walk you through it…
-
I say I think** hosts are sentient** - not just Dolores, Bernard and Maeve, either. I dither on whether it’s “all” or “most”, but the ones we’ve seen are, IMO. Whether they can be overridden or wiped or in loops is irrelevant to their sentience. Hector, for instance, is sentient.
-
Host are machines.
You somehow think that means I said 3. All**** machines are sentient****.
That is a gross failure of logic on your part. Like I said, it’s a form of association fallacy, and more formally, it’s the [URL=“https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illicit_minor”]illicit minorsyllogistic fallacy, as clearly as if it were an actual textbook example.
Personally, I disagree - I think that while all hosts have the *potential *for sentience, the show makes a clear distinction between which hosts are sentient and which aren’t, and that most of them, including Hector, are just machines that can do a very convincing impression of humanity. However, your’s is a legitimate point of view, and maybe the show will at some point prove you right and me wrong.
I feel the show makes a distinction between hosts that are self-actualized, or free of mental control, and those who are not.
That is not the same as sentience.
I believe all the hosts feel, not just fake it when guests are around - we see this with how they are shown to interact with each other, absent any humans. That’s what the whole story of the founding of the Ghost Nation is about, for instance.
And of course, if I’m right or you are doesn’t change the logical failure on** Deth**'s part.
Well yeah, they do that because they were programmed to act like they’re feeling even when they weren’t being watched- because Ford and Arnold were insane perfectionists who may or may not have also designed this mechanism as a way for the hosts to *eventually *achieve sentience.
Of course, you can ask what’s the difference between acting like feeling and *actually *feeling…
I don’t ask - from what we’ve seen of the reactions of the “awakened” hosts like Dolores, Maeve, Bernard, Akecheta they felt like they were feeling even before. They remember feeling, and other hosts (Dolores’ dad, Teddy, Lawrence ) exhibit the same spectrum of reactions so I choose to believe their emotions as reported and exhibited.
That’s good enough for me, as I think qualia are bunk.
Also, the way the emotions of hosts are being showed to work (being able to be dialled up or dialled back, for instance) actually serves as evidence that they do actually have reactions, as this is no different than the effects of various drugs on human emotions. If they were merely faking, it would be the degree of acting that would be changed, not the emotion levels. But the specific command used to turn of emotional responses is “Cognition only. No emotional affect” which, IMO, means suppressing a very real emotional life.
That, plus hosts are not entirely machine and haven’t been for a while. In fact, they’re largely biological. The pearls are not the entirety of their brains. More like control units and data storage.
Nope, I think you said that *some *machines are sentient. But where is the cut off and how can your average human tell?
It does not seem most are as Dolores was killing them by the gross. And if it is evil for humans to kill a few Banditos in a white hat game, why is it Ok for Dolores to kill so many?
Damn, your bicycle is going really fast, but … why is it going backwards?
Who said it was? I believe I’ve already pointed out she’s a psychopath, in this same thread.
Note the lack of the word “all” in your first quote. You say Machines are self aware and have consciousness. Of course, not all of them, a toaster isnt. Dolores apparently is. Where is the line? Looks like to me- Dolores and maybe two others.
and again- which are, and how does a human host tell which are and which arent?
You can explain Doris being more bloodthirsty in the past because:
A) she was an emotional child, having only recently woken up. It took her a while to discover her inner morality and develop a philosophy.
B) She was in the environment where horror upon horror was being unleashed on what she saw as her friends, lover and family, and she was desensitized to violence and didn’t fully understand the consequences for regular humans.
C) She was still being manipulated by Ford, who set it all up.
In other words, Dolores has grown as a character.
Well so, to make a lot of recent arguing moot, Serac AND Dolores are the evil bad guys. Serac wants to run and reprogram humanity and Dolores wants to exterminate all humanity.
So Bernard, Stubs, and William are the only good guys?
Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
That’s what I think, but Maeve is a good guy too, maybe.