A few generations ago it would have been unthinkable for a man to ask a lady’s first name. He would have addressed her as “Mrs. Jones” if she were married, “Miss Smith” if not, and “Ms. Carter” if the person addressing her wasn’t sure. Asking for her first name would have been preposterous and, likely, borderline impolite.
Now I’m in a situation where I awkwardly don’t know someone’s last name, and I’m unlikely to ask. Mrs. H has been babysitting “Alicia’s” young daughter for a year or so now. We know Alicia lives with a Mr. B— and has a child with him, but isn’t married to him. And on Facebook, Alicia just goes by her first and middle name, not her last (think “Alicia Marie” though that’s not her real name).
So I’ve known Alicia for about a year and don’t know her last name, and Mrs. H has unequivocally forbidden me from asking for it, saying to do so would be hella awkward.
When I was growing up in Israel, I never called anyone “Mr” anything. Even my teachers went by their first name. Moving to the US, it was pretty weird getting used to calling teachers by their last name with a honorific.
I remember as a kid overhearing at a Trader Joe’s a pair of older ladies talking about how horribly offended they were that one of their kids’ friends dared to call them by their first name instead of Mrs X. I still remember it to this day because they came across as incredibly full of themselves and self-important to me.
With few exceptions (Alicia being one) I know the last name of everybody in my life. Their last names are on their doors at work, or on social media, or whatever.
I didn’t (and don’t) even know some of my own friends’ last names, several years in, after we’ve spent many a night together playing board games.
It just randomly occurred to me one night, between turns. I had to ask him, “Wait, what’s your last name again? Did you ever even tell me?” He thought about it, chuckled, and asked for mine too. We looked around the table and realized we mostly didn’t know each other’s last names, even though we’d all been hanging out for years by that point. To this day, I still don’t know many of theirs. Unless they explicitly told me or emailed me at some point, there just would not have been a reason to know or ask. Otherwise I’d forever know them as “John board game”, because that’s how they’re saved in my phone.
Even when there’s 2+ “Johns” in the room, they’d become “OG John” or “Stoned John” or “John the Second” or whatever, instead of “John B. Goode”.
Conversely, if I did ask, it wouldn’t be a big deal either, just a point of curiosity. But that’s between peers of a certain age group where first-name-basis is the norm, and last names (and marital statuses) aren’t a big deal to anyone.
But if you’re discussing this across generations, with someone you don’t know well and who isn’t already comfortable with you, and especially if they are in an unclear relationship status that you’re nosy about… then yeah, that can definitely read as intrusive or probing?
To me, it seems odd that I wouldn’t know the last name of someone I considered a friend for that long. There are ( and have always been) people who I’ve known for a long time who I only know by first name - but they’ve been acquaintances at best, like the guy who owns/works in the deli around the corner or the receptionists at the doctor’s office.
I don’t actually need to know my friends’ last names until I need to mail them something or register them for something- it would be kind of awkward to ask someone I’ve known for years “What’s your last name?” when I want to send them an invitation or make a travel reservation that includes them.
Lol! This is a pretty frequent occurrence now in our friend group, now 25s-40s with everyone getting married, and nobody knowing each other’s surnames, maiden or otherwise. We all have to ask, “What’s your last name and address? I wanna send you something.”
And actually, thinking about this more, I don’t know any of my partner’s friends’ last names, even though we all hang out together frequently. They’re all just described by ad-hoc monikers.
They are all “you know, Alice from work” or “Big Dave” or “the other Rebecca that we went hiking with”.
I would be very surprised (though not bothered) if any of them knew my last name.
I don’t know how awkward or impolite it is to ask about a surname. Sounds more like someone projecting their own neuroses onto an otherwise innocuous line of inquiry.
When I was a young adult a self-introduction to somebody else pretty well always included a handshake and an “Hi, I’m First Last”. If someone else was introducing me to somebody it was always “First1 Last1, this is First2 Last2.” Then continuing redundantly with “… and First2 Last2 this is First1 Last1.”
I’m a bunch older than @Reply, but his explanations sound pretty much exactly like how my last 10-15 years have gone. My phone is full of contacts like “John BARBERSHOP” or “Sally NEIGHBOR”. It’s so common for me that I’ve adopted the standard of all-capping the connection in the lastname field so I can recognize that’s not a real name.
It’s been almost exactly 3 years now since I last asked a social acquaintance for a mailing address. It happens this week is the anniversary of that; I have to renew our annual joint membership in something. So it’s top of mind. Before that? A decade ago maybe.
My bottom line:
Times have changed. IMO @HeyHomie is being a bit old fashioned, and his wife is partly right, but probably for the wrong reason. And is overblowing the issue.
I don’t think his request is impolite as all that; I do think the feeling it’s necessary to ask is … unnecessary.
I agree that asking someone their last name in the abstract isn’t impolite. The only complicating factor here that might make it rude is the fact that this specific situation involves a lady who is living with the father of her child to whom she is not married; if the context that the topic comes up in involves that situation (and it did in the OP, so it seems fairly likely) I think it could be viewed as rude for that reason.
I’m not 100% sure what my sister-in-law’s surname is; I know she was leading towards probably keeping her maiden name when she married my brother, with some concerns about not matching the kids’ names, but I haven’t actually checked which she went with in the end.
In the military I had the opposite problem. I often knew everyone’s last name, it was on their uniforms, but not their first names. I would only notice when I was introducing the wife and not know my co-workers first name, only Sergeant or Captain.
I’m not sure it’s impolite to ask, but you might want to consider that the reason you don’t know it already is because she prefers it that way, particularly since you indicate that she identifies herself with her first and middle name. I have known several women who have chosen to identify themselves that way specifically to avoid being associated with their father’s surname. Asking might surface some uncomfortable feelings. I’m sure she’s used to it, but if your only reason is because you don’t know it, it may be wise not to ask.