CJJ*, your post was not an organic hijack, it was a direct hijack in a new direction.
I have split it off into a new thread at What Are Your Challenges In Being An Atheist? (Spin-off for other ??)
[ /Moderating ]
Auntbeast, I seriously don’t know what you are complaining about. The majority of “off topic” posts in this thread have not been attacks by theists on atheists, but internecine squabbling by non-believers over whether they/you all really face any serious challenges.
Stay in Spain, sure, but you would still be treated with suspicion and persecuted in various ways, which could’ve been neatly and legally avoided by hopping on the ship to the Ottoman Empire.
The Sundance Channel, or on DVD. Your options are limited, since it’s an Australian show. If you think that sounds cool, I highly recommend the whole DVD set (I think there’s only been one season). He’s also done an exorcism in Houston (spookiest episode by far); confessed to a priest who lent him his room in the church while he was in Italy ten years ago that he stole his (the priest’s) batteries and jacked off in his (the priest’s) bed; gone to India and talked to gurus; hired Extreme Mormons to do BMX tricks while prosletyzing door-to-door; and gone to Africa to remove a curse on the Australian soccer team by being doused in chicken blood (and doing other weird shit), just off the top of my head.
Oh man, the best part about that door-to-door atheism episode was when a Mormon preacher beat them over the head with a rake to get them off his property.
The book “A Dirty Job” by Christopher Moore offers a more interesting version of the job. I can’t give away any further details without reading it, but it’s a pretty cool (and, at times, exhilirating) way to make a living.
I have to say, when I was in college (and even now, non-agnostic that I am) I would not have been able to prevent myself from SOME smartass comment:
“Yeah, man! He sells the best weed on campus!”
“That’s the guy my mom was having the affair with, you bastard!”
“Damn smelly hippies.”
“No, but he’s HOT. Is he in Playgirl?”
Et cetera.
Can former agnostics join in if they don’t start witnessing? 
Back when I was a pagan and then an agnostic, I had some of the same problems as people around here. Most of the people I hung out with were the targets of the Christian-Right groups on campus. I remember a particularly surreal moment where a few polo-shirted khaki-clad young men came to help our gaming group put up our tables and, after asking us about what we did, inquired as sweetly as anything "So you do realize you’re going to Hell, right?’
Yeah, buddy. Whatever. :rolleyes:
Much more fun was had in general by the rotating street preachers. One of them informed me that I was going to Hell (this is a common thread, y’see, among some people).
“Whyever?”
"Because you’re – " Here he had to consider. I looked like a pretty clean cut girl with long hair and a cheerful smile. “You are wearing the garments of a man!”
Sure enough, I was wearing a pair of blue jeans. “Gosh,” I said, sitting down next to one of my friends. “These jeans are going to send me to Hell?”
“Indeed they are!”
Had I been the woman then that I was now, I might have screamed, ripped off my blue jeans, and run away. Instead, I looked at my friend, shrugged at her, said “Oh well. In for a penny, in for a pound!” We then proceeded to make out. 
I met plenty of people that I just… didn’t tell. I didn’t want to get in to the old conversation. No, I don’t believe in your god. Nobody did anything bad, I wasn’t molested by a priest, I just don’t. Believe. In your god. And especially not in your religion. No, that doesn’t mean I have no morals; believe it or not, we can look logically at human behavior and decide what seems to be Good and Bad. Two thousand plus year old books do not have a lock on the market there.
Admittedly, some of my beliefs in that arena have changed since then, but that’s a topic for another thread, if at all.
Incidentally, just as an aside, pagans were lumped in there with atheists as not being citizens. I was fit to spit nails when I heard about both: whatever God or gods you do or do not believe in should have no influence on such a thing.
You’re clearly mistaken, given the fact that there are no women on the internet.
As for the rest of the thread, mark me down for the camp which says there aren’t many challenges. There’s zero reason to share your view on the cosmos in the workplace or to acquaintance and any backlash would be expected.
I’d echo the recommendation given upthread to share feelings with anyone you want to date seriously, though. Not right away or else you may come off as a loon, but fairly early in the relationship. Having that blow up later is not a pretty sight.
I have never, ever brought up my atheism at work when it was not a direct response to a theist bringing up their beliefs. That actually happens quite often, because they start talking about their church and how they do this with their church and that with their church and eventually they ask ‘Where do you go to church?’
Am I supposed to lie to avoid the backlash of the theist?
There’s something incredibly depressing to me about the knowledge that in the future I will just not be. It’s a bummer. It’s certainly not a fact I am willing to delude myself about, but for someone without fear of hell, just ‘not being’ tops the list of things to deal with…for me.
If you want to avoid the backlash, yes, lie. Or half lie. Or just tell the truth without informing them that you’re an atheist. In the majority of my experiences if you just flatly tell them you don’t go to church “anymore” they will stop asking questions. If they insist on prying, tell them your parents took you to church a lot when you were in a kid and you’ve had your fill. Or act lazy. Or tell them you don’t believe that man needs to go to a specific building to commune with god. That will shut them up for sure.
Or, you know, if you don’t care about what your peers think about you and you want to create drama just tell them you’re a heathen. Just don’t act all shocked when they look at you like you’ve grown two heads.
It’s not like this doesn’t happen to any number of groups. Gays have to make similar decisions when everyone is talking about dating and relationships. Or Bush haters in an office filled with Bush supporters. Or vice versa.
Good Og, man, can’t you guys fuck off and leave us alone? And can someone move this thread out of GD so we can stop having the debates and get back to what the thread is actually supposed to be about in the first place?
When I was teaching, the subject of religion in the classroom was a frequent topic in the faculty lounge. Some of the fundamentalist teachers could become really angry toward those Christians who did not support organized prayer activities, sermons at school, and daily Bible readings. So sometimes it is Christians vs Christians when some get into “us vs them” thinking.
This may be helpful to some of you. (And those who know me best through Great Debates will laugh.) One thing I learned from those experiences was that just because I am attacked, that doesn’t mean I have to defend myself. I also don’t have to answer anyone’s personal questions.
Most of you don’t seem to have a problem though.
catsix, I’ve mentioned this in several threads, but you can always fall back on the old Firesign Theater’s use of “The Powerhouse Church of the Presumptious Assumption of the Blinding Light.” Tell your co-workers your membership is there.
Not that I would coax you to bear false witness or anything…
Now now formerly fetus, don’t be delusional. This thread is exactly what the OP wanted and asked for…isn’t it?
I’ve repeatedly asked and basically told I’m flat out wrong. So good luck with that.
You want this thread in the Pit?
No one is stopping you from expressing any view that you believe is more in line with the views sought in the OP, (and the Mod who moved the thread is not a theist).
I’m not sure what thread YOU are reading. Since you specifically took off your moderator hat to post that to me. I beg to differ:
Liberal: complained about how theists have been maligned.
tomndebb: stating there isn’t much evidence of prosecution. Questioning someone complaining about all the religious news.
xtisme: accusing a poster of walking around with a chip on their shoulder.
xtisme: saying that atheists shouldn’t complain because it isn’t as bad as slavery or some minorities have had it. To paraphrase, we should basically suck it up.
Various and sundry “organic tangents” that include comparing atheists to stormfront members.
Many other posts that DIRECTLY criticize the atheists for the challenges they posted in this thread.
Please note; None of the folks above are atheists. I think that pretty much shows that indeed, there have been attacks on atheists by theists. And you’ve been one of them.
So, in a thread of over 270 posts, you feel that a handful of comments by theists has been a complete corruption of the thread (even though there have been far more attacks by non-theists on non-theists)? (You appear to be deliberately ignoring the fact that xtisme has expressly indicated that he is not a theist.)
I look forward to seeing you post to every religious themed thread that is interrupted by claims that religion is bunk or hateful and cruel or stupid or a deliberate scam, reprimanding the posters who submit those ideas for their inappropriate attacks.
And I have attacked no one. I made a fairly neutral observation that while there are a limited number of cases of actual persecution of atheists, I found it interesting that the majority of complaints posted to this thread could just as easily have been made by theists talking about attacks on them.
As long as there are people who still think that the best thing for an atheist is to stay in the closet, to not feel as free as a theist to express their religious status, being an atheist will mean a life of challenge.
There is no reason for an atheist to be anything but who they are, and that includes fake religions. This is why I don’t do the whole flying spaghetti monster, noodly appendage thing.
Some of the most dismissive posts regarding challenges faced by atheists have come from tomndebb himself. I am beginning to wonder if anything an atheist posts as a challenge will not be met by tomndebb with anything other than a quick dismissal and the suggestion that ‘it offends Christians too.’
I don’t think your posts, in which you dismiss anything brought up by an atheist out of hand with no consideration and then try to point out how it’s actually just as bad for theists, are neutral at all. You seem to go out of your way to be understanding towards theists like Michael Behe, particularly when you call him wrong about creationism but say you can understand why he’s so emotionally attached to his argument, yet are completely and instantly dismissive of atheists’ feelings, including your tongue in cheek quip about how you suppose you can tolerate atheist witnessing.
It comes off, at least to me, as if atheists are being given a pat on the head and dismissed as if our concerns are unimportant. IOW, kind of patronizing.
Thank you!
marshmallow, I don’t want to have the kind of world you’d make - one where I should feel ashamed of expressing my conscience.
Some of the “most dismissive” posts? “Dismiss anything brought up by an atheist out of hand”?
I have not been dismissive of anyone’s actual “challenges.” I made one neutral observatiuon leading you to attack me by twisting my words and I have responded to Auntbeast’s groundless attacks on my posts.
I have acknowledged from my first post that there are both laws and regions in this country that are oppressive toward atheists, noting only that in some cases the oppression is that of humans suffering xenophobia, not specific to atheism. This led you to distort what i had said, to which distortion I responded.
Note that I have not dismissed any expression you have posted that was not part of an attack on me and even the ones I challenged were based on your claims for things that simply do not occur except in your imagination. (I know I always look forward to the Seinfeld episiode in which the four friends quit their bickering to go to church and praise Jesus. Sarcasm aside, I have never seen any Christmas episode that dragged Jesus into it in Friends, My Wife and Kids, According to Jim, Fresh Prince of Belair, Reba, Girlfrends, or any of the other sitcoms I’ve encountered. There might have been a Jesus episode on MASH, years ago, but that would drive pretty directly from the Fr. Mulcahy character.*) Similarly, Auntbeast has made a big deal out of a small number of posts by theists (and non-theists that she has chosen to lump in with theists to inflate her claim).
The only thing I have recently said about Behe was that I did not think he was an asshole (and I even left room for that characteriztion of Behe in that exchange). I have resolutely condemned his actions for years. I have made no effort to oppose atheists interrupting theist discussion on this board either as a poster or a Mod (except on the rare occasion when it was a deliberate hijack). I have not dismissed the complaints of any of the other posters in this thread.
The only thing of which I am dismissive are posts that twist or distort actual events to make them larger than life–particularly when they are directed at me.
For the love of god, the only person you could be speaking of when when accusing me of inflating my claim was xtisme. If you read this post :http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9211364&postcount=240
You will clearly see that they self-describe as an agnostic. Which is NOT an atheist.
This post:
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9202808&postcount=125
Is pretty darn dismissive of atheists challenges posted. Just as an example sir.
For the record, tomndebb, I’m not sure if I’m arguing with you as a person or a moderator. I’ve not had any run-ins with folks with Mod hats on, but I am operating as if you are not wearing your hat, even though I think this is a pretty grey area because you are participating in a thread I feel you should have been moderating better.
Well, several posters who are complaining about the harsh treatment of Atheists by those nasty theist types are advocating an in your face approach to thing. If you are going to throw your stance in the general publics faces every chance you get then you are going to get a backlash. Being surprised when you attack someone and they become defensive is, well, rather silly.
I characterize this behavior as ‘have a chip on your shoulder’. You can call it whatever you like.
I’m saying that atheists aren’t persecuted in any systematic way in the US…as many minority groups HAVE been and to an extent still are. I’ve repeatedly asked for cites showing atheists being persecuted and all I’ve received back in return is folks who don’t seem to be able to read my posts or accuse me of being a theist or some such other non-sense.
So, lets take your paraphrase out and let me insert a one liner of my own to hopefully clarify…there is nothing TOO suck up for atheists. There are no real challenges facing atheists in the US with the possible exception of running for political office. And there I suspect more than one US president actually WAS an atheist…he just didn’t throw it in the publics face. Sort of like not going around and telling people he likes to fuck the chickens or that he has anal sex with his wife on Tuesdays.
This isn’t advocating staying in the closet as catsix seems to mis-read what I’m saying…it’s simply not throwing it in peoples faces every opportunity you get. Sometimes direct action IS required…like when some fundie group wants to try for the umpteenth time to put prayer in schools or teach creationism/IE or some other dippy shit like that. But getting all worked up because there is a Nativity scene at the local court house is pretty much simply looking for a fight.
Since I’ve said all this before and it hasn’t been understood (seemingly) I’m not sanguine about it working this time either. I think I’m going to bow out of this whiny train wreck at this point unless someone has something interesting to say. Ado.
(p.s. as Auntbeast isn’t done: "
You will clearly see that they self-describe as an agnostic. Which is NOT an atheist. "
While I agree with you that agnostic doesn’t equal atheist I think most folks here would be surprised. You should understand that while I’m not an atheist, I’m most definitely NOT a theist. Which is what Tom is saying. You should go look up the term agnostic if it is giving you some confusion. There was a thread on this not long ago where I basically was told that agnostic DOES equal atheist. So in many peoples minds here the two are similar or even the same.)
-XT
Amen brother. That is one thing that truly bothers me. Knowing full well if I was as open about my atheism as folks are about their christianity, the quality of my life would certainly suffer. Interestingly, the same people I believe would judge me harshly, like me just fine without knowing. (or dislike me, for that matter) I don’t change in the scenario, the perception of me changes.
I’m not pulling this out of my ass. One of the most common questions I hear is about morality. A very common perception is that as an atheist, I have no morals. If that is what you are starting with, that ain’t good.
Out of curiosity…did you actually READ that post by me?
-XT