Just a nitpick here, but the question this quote was addressing is “Ah, but you do have intentions, you’re expecting a response to that, aren’t you?”. The answer has nothing to do with tone of voice, etc – it has everything to do with what the person actually intended.
So is the consensus that the hitting on/flirting/making a pass distinction has nothing to do with the intention of the speaker and everything to do with the reaction of the listener?
I don’t understand this. If it’s unwelcome, I’m uncomfortable; if I’m uncomfortable, it’s unwelcome–they’re the same thing. Hitting on to me has a negative connotation–chatting a girl up is a good comparison. You’re out for something, whether it’s her number or some tail. Hitting on has an agenda; flirting does not. A pass is an agenda without a strategy, if that makes sense–there’s no subtlety, no amibiguity. The “can I buy you a drink?” is more hitting on to me than a pass. “Come back to my place?” is a pass and the answer will always be no with a sneer.
Ok, I’m going to assume this is just a bad choice of example because any guy who wants to TOUCH my EYES will creep me out. But regardless, I think the above is flirting and is just fine–with the caveat that a lot depends on body language, basic hygience, facial expression, tone of voice etc.
Thing is, if you approach a strange woman and say “Like Metallica? you would” since she doesn’t know you or you her, you will get flipped off or worse. To me it sounds like a criticism, not the beginning of banter. YMMV. Your niece you can give as much shit as you like: tribal customs must be passed down. 
Flirting is ephemeral and difficult to pin down on a message board. Kind of like charm–it defies description. I am sure you mean no harm or discomfort; I’d be amazed to find out that you caused any woman distress with this sort of stuff. And I’m not everywoman–there may be lots who want to “hook up” (horrid phrase). I don’t have any advice on how to do so…
eleanorigby, if both of our membership statuses were “Guest”, you’d probably be thinking of me as some weird creepy stalker rapist. I know I’d be thinking of you as a frigid humorless bitch. But come on, we’ve known each other for years. I know that you’re intelligent, fun, and friendly, and you know the same about me. Let’s make some attempt at actually understanding each other and coming to some agreement here.
I’m not sure why you think I disagree with you on this. Maybe it was my wording. I totally agree that comfort is of utmost importance. It provides a huge amount of the context that we both agree is the frame for everything that follows.
Then we disagree on the definition of the term. That’s what the OP is all about. To you, “hitting on” is all about someone creepy doing something creepy in the context of creepy. To me, it’s all about having a mutually fun interaction wherein there is flirting, teasing, getting to know each other, and seeing if it might lead somewhere, all in a mutually comforting frame. Creepiness has no business in any of it, and is an unwelcome guest.
Are you kidding me? It’s beyond creepy. It’s beyond weird. It careens blindly down the Main Street of totally fucking absurd. That’s what makes it so funny. I mean, come on, how would a guy actually touch your eyes without poking your retina? There very idea is hilarious.
You’re probably thinking of it in terms of some weirdo in a back alley leering at you and saying “Hey baby, can I touch your eyes?” while jerking off. Yes, of course that’s creepy. So stop thinking in those terms. Just stop it. Instead, think about having a fun interaction with an attractive guy for maybe 5-10 minutes, it’s all laughs and giggles, and then he gets all serious and romantic. “Wow. You have… Really… Really… BEAUTIFUL eyes!” That creates all sorts of sexual tension. Maybe you’re starting to get a wee bit weirded out, right? Too much too soon. Then he cracks a half smile and says “Can I touch 'em?” Tension is released. How can you not crack up at that?
In the right context, of course.
I never said that it could be used as an approach. Used in an already established interaction, where fun teasing has become the frame, it’s just more fun teasing. It’s playing.
I really try not to. Shouldn’t all interactions be fun?
Really? Try it out sometime. Of course, all of the right conditions must be met. It must be daytime, it must be in public, you must be sincere, you must smile and be friendly, and you must come from a position of giving something, not wanting something. The response I almost always get is “Wow. You just made my day! Thank you!”
It’s freakin’ awesome.
I can see that, honestly I can, but I prefer not to screw up my track record either.
Yeah, well… if you do it REALLY right, you’ll keep your precious track record. 
Nope - creepiness is a great way to get a jerk to go away. e.g. eating alone at a restaurant with a book, when some idiot sits down opposite you, and asks what you’re reading he deserves the response of “Black magic sacrificial rituals of males 18-42. I’m getting pointers for my next work.” It works best if its true. With pictures. (Hey, don’t ask unless you want to know.)
I’d agree with eleanorrigby on the definitions of flirting. The only thing I’d add is the distance they seem to be done from - flirting can be done at a distance, while hitting on might be next to you, or at close speaking distance. A pass seems to be made while standing way too close, if not being hands-on. Someone you don’t know getting that close is normally unpleasant and threatening.
Because I’m calling security to make sure you don’t follow me to my car.
I have to ask, what is the response the rest of the time - because it certainly wasn’t welcome when someone did that to me.
Not really. Those are what I consider as definitions as well.
Sadly, too many people equate flirting with either/both. Flirting is a dying art, and that saddens me. Flirting with an attractive young lady that I have just met is a ton of fun.
Trust me, dear. everyone realizes that. Your QtM flirting is both blatant and entertaining.
I have to agree. “Hitting on” and “making a pass at” are strategic objectives - “get a date” and “escalate to a physical level ie making out”. “Flirting” is just one of many possible tactics used to achieve those objectives. Or no objective for that matter other than simply amusing yourself and the girl you are flirting with.
I tend to flirt because I consider myself good looking and funny. Some guys try to impress a girl by spouting off their resumes. That works with a particular type of girl. Some guys don’t have to do anything other than stand there being tall and handsome.
Anyhow, “hitting on” implies that you are actively targeting a particular girl with the intent of closing on some digits or getting her to leave with you.
The thing to keep in mind is that it may not always be obvious because both sides don’t want to risk rejection and losing face.
See, I don’t understand all this, because the day I stood behind my co-worker for twenty minutes moaning turrrn arounnnnd briiiiiight eyes in a falsetto and fanning the back of her neck with two large feathers, it got me absolutely nowhere.
What sort of distances are we talking about here? Sure, 3-4 inches away from someone you just met is uncomfortably close. 3-4 miles is just dumb. 3-4 feet is quite normal, whether for flirting, hitting on, or just carrying on conversation.
Being that your response didn’t even make sense in the context of my question, I’m going to just go ahead and assume that you didn’t even really read my post, but instead made silly assumptions and posted that. Because if you’re talking to a new friend and enjoying it, and you would then just turn around and call security, that’s pretty sociopathic bahavior.
Maybe actually read it this time?
Maybe that person didn’t do it right. Maybe that person was trying to get something from you. Maybe that person was being creepy.
Please reread the part where I said to do it in a non-creepy way.
The one time I did it where it wasn’t well-received, she thanked me in a half-hearted way, and resumed reading her book.
Making a pass on - try 3-4 inches, if they don’t have a hand on you (or if you’ve had to move fast to stop them). I’ve already said normal speaking distance(couple of feet to across the office) for hitting on or flirting.
No, I have read it. If we are having a nice conversation and then you say I have beautiful eyes, the conversation ends right then. Obviously we do not want the same things out of this conversation, and its not a nice conversation anymore. If you then ask to touch my eyes, I call security, and leave. You’ve stopped being a new friend and started being a creepy stranger with an agenda.
That’s slightly different - around here its usually a prelude to them making a grab, or other unwanted advance. Its easier to shut them down the second they start.
Huh.
Have you ever, at any time in your life, been approached by a guy and enjoyed it? Think back. Unless you’ve never had a boyfriend, and never gotten laid, never even been kissed, I’m going to have to assume that you’ve been in at least one conversation in your life. And I’m going to have to assume that the conversation escalated to some sort of flirtatious mode. Maybe even a nice comment was made about your eyes. Think back now. That’s NEVER happened to you?
Maybe that’s normal, and the other 99.9999% of the human population throughout all of time is nothing but creeps.
Or maybe you’re just not getting it.
And if someone asks if he can touch your eyes, and says it – get this – in a joking and flirty way, do you think he ACTUALLY wants to put his fingertips on your retinas? Do you HONESTLY think that? If so, then you are very definitely not getting it.
I’ll try explaining to you one more time:
IT’S A JOKE.
Forgot to respond to this.
That’s why you do it in a playful and non-threatening way. I’m not sure why you’re not understanding that.
<slinks away to die in a hole, alone and unloved, but then thinks that skald is probably just jealous. Winks in skald’s direction>
tdn–I think we are talking past each other. I had no context for the “touch my eyes” thing (and it is indeed fucking WEIRD and I would move away quickly). But you didn’t give context to the original Metallica comment either–I read it as a conversation starter, which it isn’t–it’s a convo killer. (and may I just say I chuckled a bit at the “I’ve known you for years” comment–yes, we do, but in such odd ways, my internet friend.) 
I could see the eye touch comment being funny, in the right context and said in a certain way, but it is still borderline creepy. I’m sorry to spoil your fun (and I didn’t mean to come across as a wet blanket on page 1). Use the line as you will–if you succeed with it, who am I to cavil?
We were speaking of the differences between flirting, hitting on and making a pass–to me, these are 3 different things, and one is not a subset of another. One man’s flirting is another’s hitting on. (I think we are all agreed what a pass is).
I agree that flirting is a dying art and I, for one, will miss it horribly. I’d rather flirt than “hook up” (horrid phrase–I can’t say it enough). Hook up is something you do to electronic equipment, not to someone you want to have sex with. No wonder flirting is dying out. I’m indignant on the part of flirting and subtle sexual maneuverings everywhere.
Just thought of something, let me know your thoughts: IMO, flirting is respectful of the other person’s space and well, personhood. Hitting on is not, nor is making a pass.
And Vinyl Turnip–it was overkill with the fans. Please make a note of it. 
What’s a girl gotta do to get a drink around here?
Rhymers don’t get jealous. The jealousy gene was removed from our line in 1874, in the same procedure that brought all male Rhymers extensible tongues, 12-inch dicks and 12-second refractory periods.
Anyway, don’t be embarrassed. When I write that your flirting with QtM is entertaining to watch, I mean that I have always assumed you meant it to be so, and you generally succeed.
::sends a squadron of the better-behaved monkeys box of truffles and bouquet of flowers to cheer up eleanorigby ::
Now come out of the hole, dear.
Hint: Touch his eyes.
Well, that’s the thing. Context and delivery.
I see them as on a continuum. Done in order, they make a lot of sense. Done out of order, they could be really rude. Certainly there are times when you WANT to be kissed, no?
You have a really cute nose.
Can I pick it?
<digs toe in carpet and looks down> Flowers? And truffles for me? <looks at skald through eyelashes; says softly> Thanks. <thinks for a moment> Hey, d’ya wanna see my um, hole? There’s room for your prodigious appendages… <cracks up and runs off>
I timed out of the edit window, so here’s the rest of my post.
tdn–I pictured you leaning over the Reference desk, looking all sane and normal and then coming out with the touch eyes comment… It’s not like I would bolt out of there, but I’d probably not want to continue the convo. Unless of course, I understood it was a joke–which I didn’t at first here.
:smack:
Hokay–I liked the nose comment until the pick it part and now I shall chase you around the Dope with a rolled up magazine with intent to smack you and then tickle you. <gets up>
One that, as a romantic ice-breaker, ranks up there with “you have really soft skin. Would you like to come home with me and see my sewing machine?”