You might be interested to know that during my first marriage, the only source of heat in our house was a wood-burning furnace (circa 1984). Of course I was expected to chop wood and keep the fire going - as was my husband; it was a team effort. Can’t let the fire go out, you know.
“Accounting” in these situations is going to be very personal. The important this is that neither spouse feels “taken advantage of.” And each situation is going to be unique. Situation involving pursing a “non-lucrative career” (writing, art) will be different than “I watch soaps all day” or “spouse is ill.”
Personally, with no kids, if Brainiac4 stayed home, I’d expect a clean house, yardwork done, bills paid, dinner made, laundry done, dishes taken care of. We do this now between two working adults with two children and it isn’t a 40 hour a week job.
I would not expect the social secretary function, simply because I want control over my own social life. And I have a rule - greeting cards for his family are his business, for my family, my business (I’m not a greeting card person - if I didn’t bother to send MY mother a Mother’s Day card, I’m sure not sending his mother one).
The most important idea is that however you divide duties, both partners must think it is fair or you will only end up with resentment. Since my son was born I work part time and so I do more of the housework, but my husband does a lot too. If I was home full time with no kids I would do even more, and probably spend more time doing something extra like maybe extensive gardening or sewing or volunteering. I would expect to do 90% of the housework if I was home full time with no kids, but like I said couples need to both feel appreciated and that they got a fair deal.
My husband and I both understand that we both work hard. Some weeks he has to work long hours and then I take over even more of the household work. If he works 60 hours a week I don’t expect him to do much when he gets home. When things are normal, I do the daily upkeep stuff like dishes, cooking, laundry, tidying, etc. and he does the once a week type cleaning. I also do the grocery shopping and household shopping and handle the finances, and the appointments. I am home 2 days a week (plus weekends) so more things get done then, but my primary reason for switching to part time is to be with our son, not to clean the house. So if the house is a mess when my husband gets home he is not upset or anything, and I usually catch up when the kid is in bed anyway. The house stays pretty clean overall. He is very good at fixing things and so he does the maintenance work on the house and we almost always have some sort of home project in progress. We both like to work on the house together.
Hot breakfasts are not a priority in our house but I make sure he has something to take for lunch and I make dinner most nights. If he gets home before I do then he will start dinner. He is also very involved with childcare and when we are both home he does as much as I do if not more with our son. Overall we are both happy with our arraingement but we have frequent talks about it and rearrange things if one person is feeling overwhelmed. Nothing is set in stone and we are both flexible - I usually do the laundry but he will throw a load in if he sees it needs to be done. He usually takes out the trash but I will empty it if I see it is full, stuff like that. Neither one of us refuses to help with something ‘because it’s not my job.’ I think it’s really important to respect each other in this way.
Answers:
Able-bodied.
Not disabled or incompetent.
Why not working? Good question.
Why did he agree to it? I haven’t been able to get a good answer out of him.
Well if I was home (no kids) while my SO was working all day, here’s what I would do (and have done):
laundry
cooking and making sack lunches
dishes
housecleaning and dusting
change cat litter
However he was still expected to pick up after himself for the most part - picking up socks is no biggie, but making a huge mess and leaving it for me to clean up is a big no-no. i.e. spills on the carpet, microwave explosions, etc…
Of course when I was working and he was not, I expected the same in return. We were both lax in keeping up the housecleaning agreements, but we were ok with it.
Oh and I firmly believe that finances should be worked on together.
sex: multiple, various, often
You know, here on the Dope, I’m freaking AMAZED you’re the first person to mention that. Actually I’m more amazed freaking Japanime-style tentacle sex hasn’t gotten mentioned.
Spouse gives out mind blowing blow jobs at the drop of a hat.
I work full time, have two young kids and do pretty much all of the things in the OPs list. (We don’t have a lawn and we plan finances, vacations, and social stuff together). I can’t see that the stay-at-home partner would have anything to complain about if asked to tackle any or all of that stuff.
The real work in staying at home comes with children. When they are little, that’s where all the time goes and when they start school there is a whole new list of activities and responsibilities that arises, if you are even slightly involved with their schooling.
There is still the issue of when the stay-at-home person gets time off, but IMO, if you don’t have kids and all you need to do is basic home maintenance, the freedom that comes with that more than makes up for having to cook on weekends.
Work is highly overrated. I wouldn’t do it if I didn’t absolutely have to. Hell, I already do all the house work and things like that, so if someone wants to pay the bills I’ll be more than happy to stay home and enjoy myself.
My main point–there’s nothing wrong with someone staying home because their spouse can afford it. Work is not the be-all, end-all of life.
If I could stay at home and pursue artistic pursuits, I would in a minute. As it is, we struggle with two part time jobs at low wages.
We split up the duties. He does the dishes (because I hate it) and I do the laundry (because he hates it). We both clean the cat box. He takes the dog out (it’s his dog) and we both vacuum when we get too icked out by the state of the floor. Bathrooms get cleaned when we know we’re having company. We’re slobs, no question about it.
If we had lawn responsibilities (our landlord pays a service) I’d probably do it, because I like the physical labor part of it.
His main responsibility is the killing or removal of insects. The cats are hopeless in this regard.
In your case, I suppose nothing would be wrong with it. But most men who are homemakers don’t like to be referred to as housewives. And personally I like the word homemaker because of its pleasant connotations. It’s used more often now I think.
The tasks involved should be up to the homemaker involved and the time should be equivalent to that of the person working outside the home. Any additional time spent on household tasks should be matched by time spent by the spouse. An exception could be made if one or the other actually enjoys household tasks for a hobby – carpentry, gardening, sewing. That would not have to be matched.
When I was a SAHM, I did everything except mow the lawn. When my husband lost his job and had to start a new business, I got a job where I could work during the evening. Mr. Pundit picked up some of the chores (e.g. dinner) that I couldn’t do any more. I gave a little; he gave a little.
Once the kids started school, I found a PT job that pays well and makes me feel valued. Even though my husband’s business is now doing well, I maintain my PT job so that we can sock away money for retirement and have some fun.
The key here is that we’re a team. We discuss it and decide together what’s best for our family. At the end of the day, we both feel that we’ve achieved a nice balance of work/family.
I get the feeling that Jonathan doesn’t feel that the “housewife” in question is contributing enough. And I will caution Jonathan that if he is not talking about his own spouse, then he should keep his nose out of it. It isn’t his deal. One of the biggest challenges of marriage is finding a nice work/family balance. It’s different for each family.
If it IS Jonathan’s spouse he is referring to, and he and his wife cannot agree what constitutes a fair division of labor, then I think soliciting opinions is a fair place to start. However, I picked up something in this thread which lends me to believe that he be satisfied with the wife’s contribution until she gets a paying job.
In that last sentence, you’re missing a word between “he” and “be”.
Your advice on staying out of other’s business is noted, and good advice.
I have the best job in the world, if you don’t include the drudge work of cleaning and shit like that. [sieze=1]It’s so overated[/size]
I get to:
do all the present shopping for the kids and family.
garage sale and Resale shop for Da Deals.
Plan the vacations and what we are doing. (I use to be a travel agent.)
Handle all the material my kids are subjected too ( TV/Print/Games) instead of letting the TV be the electronic pacifyer.
Educate my children and bring them Up To Snuff.
Dog Training, cuddling and, eventually, doggie shopping ( which we are currently in the market for a new member of the family as The Dog is getting very old.)
Basic Car Maintence. ( Mr. Ujest handles the bigger stuff and he is awesome at it.)
Lawn duties and the garden. ( If Mr. Ujest planted anything, it would be concrete. and when he has a weedwacker, to him, everything is a weed…oh…my perennials…)
Mr. Ujest jobs:
Earn money
Grouse about bills
Fix cars
obsess about what our next car will be this is a continous thought for him and once a new car is purchased, he starts in on the next car. Loads of fun.
Sports and obsessing.
Kids and general upkeep.
Household maintence, which is basically light bulb changing since he built the house and all he has to do is lightbulbs.
Obsess about his Barn and What Next Can I Do In It Without Ever REally Finishing it?
Who does what in our house depends on who is doing what outside of it. Last year when we were abroad he was unemployed and I was doing research/ writing-- he did most of the housework, including a lot of cooking because he enjoys it. When he took up a couple of classes I helped a bit more around the house. Ditto for earlier this year when I’ve been dissertation-writing and he’s been tinkering/ playing x-box. Now that he has a job outside the house and is gone a lot with a long commute I do most things around the house to make it easier for him to put something in his mouth and put on clean pants when he leaves for work. Since he’s around much less the house keeps pretty tidy and it takes only an hour a day to keep it up (not including laundry, cleaning after parrot, making sure bills get paid, and other occasional tasks. On the weekends he likes to cook, especially breakfast. Basically, if I’m not hunkering down and writing, I figure I might as well be contributing somehow, so it’s only fair. If I ever start to actually work on the dissertation for 8 hours a day (yeah, right!), things might change.
Ah, you’re assuming I wasn’t practicing up on my eubonics.
::Sigh::
I somehow missed 2 words, actually. Please insert “would not” in my last sentence.
I do know how tempting it is to make judgments on other people’s marriages. I play tennis and as such meet a lot of “tennis” wives. Their husbands work every day and they…play tennis. They have nannies to watch the kids, housekeepers to do the house work, and a lawn service takes care of the lawn. Honestly, I don’t know how these marriages survive because their life seems so glaringly out of balance. Yet, I have to admit that most of the couples seem quite content in their situation. So who am I to judge?
I would also like to add that if the wife in question has a degree or previously held a job that leveraged her skills, her refusal to get a mundane job may be less of a laziness issue and more of a pride thing. When my husband and I moved to NYC for a year so he could gain experience as an international energy broker, I gave up a very promising career. And while I did suck it up and get a job as a temp because I was bored AND felt guilty staying home, I must admit that it was a huge blow to my self-esteem to be answering phones for a living. While I was happy for my husband, I did harbor some resentment for supporting his career at the expense of my own.
Interesting thread.
So, with that being said…
What are the responsibilities and who sets the “standards”?
For us:
Me: currently career scientist and retired US Air Force NCO.
Wife: housewife who recently got a part-time job at the church in the child-care section during services.
Recently, the subject of friction is tidiness. I hate clutter. I loath it. I am a firm believer of simply, “Just put things back where they belong” and “clean up after yourself; whether it be a project or dinner”. I have high standards and very detailed ( Hence my dislike for clutter ). In our situation, I work 12 hours a day Monday - Friday ( bring my laptop home when work demand dictates ). I am the sole source of retirement and financial security now, and into our empty-nest future/retirement. The family has an expectation of me to make sure there’s a constant supply of money deposited into the bank account ( every two weeks, right on the money, never fails ). I am also the sole source of medical protection/benefits for the family. My wife has pretty much free reign to do anything she wishes, my expectations are that of what I would normally envision any stay-home housewife; meals, pays the bills, clean and tidy house, laundry, etc. Now, I am not here to say her job is any more difficult or easy as mine. The point is, we both have responsibilities and are accountable. I for one am accountable to both the provider and protector of my family, and my immediate Supervisor at work. I can’t “just not do it today because I don’t feel like it”. An action my wife has done on numerous occasions. ( must be nice ).
We have gotten into arguments a plenty over clutter; whether it be from her or the kids ( currently 9 and 14 ). As I tell her, I have no problem with pet projects and hobby’s, but I do have a beef about seeing a mess laying around or multiple piles here and there throughout the house. When it comes to my kids; they are definitely “Not without”. They have PLENTY… I do hold them accountable to make sure they just don’t throw their clothes and “stuff” on the floor or haphazardly in their rooms or bathrooms. If I need to get on them, I will and that is a source of tension between my wife and I. Come on… I go to work everyday without reservation. If I expect a house to be clutter free and messes not here and there, I should get it. Most often, when I have gotten to the point where I can stand looking at it, I just take matters into my own hands and do it myself ( granted, I shouldn’t have to and that in itself breeds resentment ). When I provide all that I do for the family and take up the slack from my son’s deadbeat real Dad, I believe the things I want should be done with gladness, not “You expect too much”… Come on…
Ok, that is the meat of it…
Well said, and I agree completely. I’d add to your last paragraph that if the housewife is also a stay-at-home mom, then you can very easily count that child time as the 40 hrs per week job, which would mean that chores would get split 50/50.
That’s nearly 6 hours of chores a day/7 days a week. That seems excessive.