It alwasy seems to be the man’s idea for an open marriage.
Women just aren’t like that, they don’t need “variety”, they sometimes go along with it to please the guy.
I think its stupid.
If youre married, you made a comittment to ONE person only.
If you dont want to, dont marry or even imagine you are in a relationship!
Here’s a quote for you masonite -
Try to get past the ‘oogy sex’ part of it and think about it as any other problem.
If you know that they have widely divergent, even incompatible ideas about what their married life would be like, wouldn’t you want to get them to talk about it? This isn’t some casual acquaintance at work. This is his best friend. He is about to marry someone who has vastly different plans for their married life. I think masonite needs to find some way to get them to talk about it. This is not gossip, or something that shouldn’t be important if they love each other. This is a fundamental part of their relationship.
Note that I am assuming that he doesn’t know that she intends to stop the ‘gang he-bangs’ after they are married.
Then, if she still thinks she will ‘change’ him, or he still thinks it’s going to be OK to sleep around, they are being stupid, and deserve the heartache of a divorce. You can just hope they figure it out and break up before there are any kids in the picture.
I also disagree with most people that he is not the jerk here, from what I can tell. He is expecting that the sexual hijinx will continue, as they had before. She is the one planning the major changes in their love, without telling him (see above assumption) and that she can ‘change’ him. If, before marriage, I had been planning all along to move out of Chicago to Three Miles Past Nowhere, population: 12, without telling Mrs. Babe (a city gal), and she figured we would stay in the Chicago area, I would be the one who was a jerk, not her.
If we talked about it before marriage, and we disagreed, that’s another matter. We each knew going in that our expectations were different, and that we would have to work things out.
In this case, it seems like she’s witholding information that would be important.
Funny, the wife was the partner who needed “variety” in the one failed open marriage that I known about. Eventually, she got tired of being married and left.
I’ve only known of one other open marriage, and as was said above, it worked because the two are married, and the affair (fling, whatever it’s called) was more a form of entertainment (or whatever you want to call that.)
Vanilla said,
You do know that a lot of women cheat in relationships, just like a lot of men do, right? Maybe not as large of a percent, but it does happen. It’s unfair to pass this off as something only men would want.
I agree, I don’t understand how people could make an open marriage work. I understand that some do make it work, but it’s totally not for me.
I knew a couple like this who were already married. The guy cheerfully explored his various tastes, and bragged about it later to me, until I made it clear that such information was… unwelcome. His wife had apparently agreed to it, but never partook herself of the arrangement. She seemed generally unhappy about it, though she never expressed such directly. It was sad, really, because she was a very nice woman, she was just married to a selfish jerk (which is her own fault, I know).
I figured that their marriage was pretty much “doomed” at some point, which was especially sad because of their cute daughter. Should the couple masonite described get married, I see them as “doomed” as well, and for the same reasons… they’re basically going to be working at odds in the relationship, and neither partner is communicating effectively with the other. Communication is the glue that holds any strong relationship together, through thick or thin.
In general, however, I see open marriage as a workable concept. I’ve known (and still know) people involved in open marriages and other “polyamorous” relationship models, and I’ve seen them work to various degrees, probably no better or worse than monogamous relationships on the whole (plenty of those go down in flames too). It’s not for me personally (happily, monogamously married for eleven years, thanks), but I can imagine strong open marriages for some people. Masonite’s specific case is an example of how to do it badly; to do it well takes honesty, commitment, and communication. Just like any other form of relationship.
I believe almost any arrangement can work as long as it is based on trust and honesty. It is possible to separate the love from the sex but and this is a big but, everyone has to play by whatever rules are agreed upon prior to the “variety”.
I’m not admitting to anything here but just let me say that no amount of sexual gratification is worth the emotional upheaval.
re the OP: That situation is headed for disaster because they are not on the same wavelength and they have different goals. I think to be sexually open is not the same as having carte blanch to “sleep with other women without the lover present” To me, that is cheating.
The only open marriage I am personally familiar with ended badly. She was all about variety in sex, but wanted her husband to be her only emotional/romantic partner. He expended a lot of emotional/romantic energy on his partners. So, this is another case where it didn’t work because their needs and expectations were different, even though they both agreed that sex outside of the marriage was okay.
I don’t see why an open marriage couldn’t work if the partners can come ot full agreement on the terms and conditions of the arrangement. In practice, I’ll bet it rarely works out. I think that those who manage it probably a) have excellent communication, and b) are willing to let minor hurts and jealousies go. (I suppose those are important factors in successful non-open marriages, too.)
If this guy is truly your best friend, then I would talk to him about it. As others have said, it’s a timebomb.
What do you think of an open marriage?
What do you think of an open marriage?
What do you think of an open marriage,
Earl-eye in the morn-in!
Make her take a pill or she’ll get pregnant.
Make her take a pill or she’ll get pregnant.
Make her take a pill or she’ll get pregnant,
Earl-eye in the mornin!
Pop him in the nuts with a rolled up paper.
Pop him in the nuts with a rolled up paper.
Pop him in the nuts with a rolled up paper.
Earl-eye in the mornin!
Thank you. I’ll be here all week. Don’t forget to tip your servers.
Oh, boy. Most lifestylers communicate MUCH better than these two people. Forget about the sex, I see a doomed partnership for that reason alone. So, I’ll just leave you with a quote from Adam Corolla of “Loveline” fame:
“Listen, screwballs, don’t have any kids!!”
-p.
Another vote for “this isn’t an open marriage”. These are people with diametrically(sp?) opposed ideas as to what life will be like after the wedding. Disaster is too mild a word.
Just out of curiosity, when did marriages stop being “open”? I’ve read a couple of books lately, and admittingly these are about Celtic/Norse peoples, but people seem to just have sex with people whenever, dispite the fact that they’re married. Were such societies like this, or is it more a device used in the stories to just add a little color to the plot?
One was Eaters of the Dead, and the other is Bard. Again, they’re both fiction, but given their subject matter, I’d like to think that a good amount of research into these people was done, so that there’s some aspects of fact in them.
First, thank you all for the very intelligent comments (and 1 very amusing song).
I went camping over the weekend with my friend and one other guy. I thought there might be a chance to talk about things a bit, but the opportunity did not come up. The three of us did chat about the marriage generally, and I learned that my friend is now somewhat committed to the idea of giving up the multi-sex after marriage. (He says generally it’s a hassle, too many weird repercussions, etc.) However, he’d like it to still be an occasional thing, and hopes he can convince her to indulge once in a while.
(From the girl’s standpoint, this would not be my idea of fidelity. “OK, honey, I won’t have sex with anybody else unless you give me your permission. Please, can I? can I? can I? You can join us if you like. And by the way, I still promise to love and cherish you, forsaking all others, till death do us part.”) :rolleyes: But they are both at the age when Mr./Miss Right starts to become Mr./Miss Good Enough, and I think she figures she’s not going to do better. She’s dated a string of utter losers, apparently, and my friend comes off as Mr. Super Wonderful by comparison. He at least has skills and money and some sort of a handle on the adult-responsibility thing.
I worry about whether they actually love each other. I think he views her as suitably docile and fertile, thinks it’s time to get married, and intends to go through with it. I think she doesn’t really know him at all and loves a person she invented in her head. (I do know him, and I can say that he is total pig, and he doesn’t like women at all except as sex objects.)
Is deep romantic love required for a successful marriage? I’m inclined to say no, actually, looking at successful arranged marriages of the distant past. But I don’t even see affection here - I see neediness, and sexuality, and obedience to convention (to have a Successful Life, you must Get Married at some point.)
Yes, I have agonized over whether/how much to get involved. My initial instinct was to stay silent, and then I thought, The hell with that, he’s my friend, and what are friends for if not for speaking the painful truth sometimes? But that’s not going to work. These people’s minds are made up, and I have no intention of getting caught between those halves of the shears. If my friend ever asks me what I think, or indicates he’s open to hearing my opinions on this, I will probably open up - as gently as I can. But at this point I doubt he will even allow such a conversation to happen. He’s avoiding me ever since this became public - I haven’t seen him alone once, except for a few moments when Camper #3 was taking a leak in the woods.
At one point I was planning on asking him if he loved her / was in love with her. A few years ago he fell head over heels for a girl, and it didn’t work out. I was going to remind him what he was like at that time, and observe that this is nothing like that, but he beat me to the punch - brought up the old girlfriend, and said he was crazy to have felt the way he did, and never plans to feel that way again. I saw classic Being-In-Love at that time; he saw mental illness, in retrospect, it turns out.
This is like watching a slow-motion car accident. I want all marriage banned, banned, I tell you.
I’m averting my eyes.
I have to say (noting the slight overgeneralization already pointed out) that this is completely right-on. I’m not condemning open arrangements, but I just don’t get it. I’ve got rather romantic and old-fashioned ideas about marriage, and its standard modern-day equivalent - what used to be known as “living in sin.” 
Not at all a valid generalization. My wife and I are good friends with an “open marriage” couple (thankfully, they’ve never invited us to swing, because we’d have to turn them down flat and then rush home for a hot shower: whatever floats your boat, but not for us, thanks; sorry for the digression). Anyway, in this couple, it’s absolutely the wife who is most in favor of the open arrangement. The husband thinks it’s okay, and partakes occasionally, but is clearly bothered at least to some degree by the wife’s sheer volume of casual partners.
Oh, and masonite, I’ll agree with the others: This is a nuclear meltdown in progress. If I were you, I’d start making myself unavailable by filling up my social calendar with other activities, pronto.
I think… I think an open marriage would work if there were three people all in love with each other (but would that really be an open marriage or another term entirely?). The situation described in the OP, though, sounds extremely manipulative on the guy’s part (and why in blazes is this guy your friend?) and smacks of desparation on the woman’s part.
Masonite: To echo Squish, why do you call this man a friend? You seem to find him distasteful at the very least; you call him “a total pig”, ferchrissakes! Do you continue to participate in this friendship out of feelings of obligation, or is he an absolute prince in all other aspects, or what?
And yeah, this whole marriage spells “disaster” with a capital “ASTER”. In big, flashing neon letters, even. Here’s hoping they figure out they’re crazy before the pitter-patter of little feet is heard.
Yeah… this disaster is headed for marriage. Hehe.
The problem that arises when folks discuss “open marriages” and such is always that of sex. Most folks seem to feel that their idea of monogamy is the right thing to do.
I, personally, disagree.
I was married for 7 years, 5 of which were open. My marriage ended, and it actually had nothing to do with sex with other people.
I love my girlfriend. I will marry her soon-ish. I am in a monogamous relationship.
But I still think sexual openness is healthy, if the person has the right outlook.
Tristan, unfortunately for me, although I, er, enjoy a lot of ‘variety’ in the bedroom (or car, or alley, or…), I’ve got a strong atavistic streak which makes me jealous as all hell. Oh, I could care less about my boyfriend’s pinup girls or porn videos, but the thought of his doing with some other woman what he does with me wants to make me emulate Loreena Bobbit.
Shameful, I know. <shrug>
Since two people have asked why this guy is my friend:
He was extremely kind to me when I really needed it. I’ll never forget that. He treated me like a brother, when there was really no particular reason to do so.
Yeah, we have radically different value systems and I “disapprove” of a lot of things he says and does and thinks. But the same is true of a lot of other people I consider friends. If everybody thought just like me, the world would indeed be a perfect place (:)) but they don’t, and it isn’t.
And of course he has redeeming qualities which I haven’t discussed here, because they’re not to the point.
As a person who has somewhat of a reputation for not bearing tales (except telling them to the SDMB now and then ;)) I hear a lot. Girls, you would not believe what some of the fellas say behind your backs. It’s not pretty at all. As far as I can make out, many straight men would be happy to dispense with the entire woman if only they could still have access to a vagina. Of course, I probably run with a ratty crowd* and my sample is not representative. At least I hope not.
*I’m a musician.