What extremists should be denounced by their own side, and why?

Great Debates
1

Continuing the debate from this thread.

The idea is that there are people on the various extremes who are so far out that they ought to be shunned by those that claim to be the responsible elements of such parties, factions, or whatever - and that those more responsible elements ought to lose credibility if they give aid and comfort to the extremists.

Please back up your names with quotes and cites.

I’ll start off: Jerry Falwell, for a list of things that’s too long to include here, though I’m sure others can add to it.

Y’all already know about his remarks the other day:

I’ll add to that his accusations, early in the '90s, that Clinton was responsible for the deaths of a number of enemies back in Arkansas. (No cite, but I’ll dig one up if this is in dispute.)

And his statement (Florence, SC, a couple days after the '92 election; I heard this one in person, and think I still have the tape somewhere) that the reporters who exposed Jim and Tammy Bakker’s misdeeds did so “because they hate Christ”.

I’m sure others can add more on Jerry, but I’ll stop here.

The point is, Jerry’s not the only one out there, and the religious right isn’t the only faction of our society that has its nutcases. Your turn.

2

I can’t think of any specific examples, but I would be more than happy to denounce anyone who’s willing to lie to win support for their position. That’s just not right.

3

OK, on behalf of Christians, I’ll give you Jack Chick.

4

That should be Jack Chick - let’s have cites where possible. :slight_smile:

I suppose Fred Phelps should be mentioned here, although Esprix says that’s already been done - Pat Robertson apparently says he’s a nutcase.

In a similar vein, I think pretty much every mainline gay organization has long since denounced the North American Man-Boy Love Association (NAMBLA).

5

crikey, I honestly thought godhatesfags was satire (I’ve seen it linked from fark.com), like Landover baptists.

6

Well, shoot, I’m too late. I saw the thread title and I immediately thought, “Jerry Falwell!” only to discover that RT beat me to it.

Oh, well. :smiley:

FTR, if anybody’s interested, I know a lot of otherwise Fightin’ Fundies who were deeply embarrassed and annoyed by the Rev’s remarks.

Even the Better Half thought he’d gone too far this time, and that’s saying a lot. He heard about it at work, but refused to believe it. “Falwell would never say anything quite that blatantly clueless, it’s gotta be a misquote.”

So I sat him down and showed him the Washington Post link that somebody had in a thread, and his first reaction, before he even started to read it, was, “Well, pfui, of course, it’s a liberal Post columnist, so of course he’s going to twist his words…” Then I pointed out that it wasn’t a columnist, it was just a staff member, and that all the article consisted of was quotes. No editorializing at all on the part of the writer.

So, grumbling, he read the thing, thought about it overnight, and the next morning said, apropos of nothing in particular, “You know, I get really angry at some of these extreme right-wing Christians who make clueless remarks about gays and such, because other people judge the rest of us Christians by those remarks.”

So, RT, I think you can take it as a “given” that Falwell’s stock has diminished quite a bit out here in the Bible Belt, if even the Better Half’s P.O.ed.

7

Thanks, DDG. :slight_smile:

Given that posters in the linked thread had mentioned Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, I was hoping that the people who mentioned them would show up here.

Of course, given that Sharpton launched himself into the limelight via the Tawana Brawley case, I’ve long wished he would crawl back under his rock. But I’m sure someone around here is more familiar with his misdeeds than I, and can catalog them far more effectively.

I have no idea what pldennison’s basis was for putting Jackson into this category; I was hoping Phil would be here by now.

8

Not to hijack things too much, but I found it rather disturbing that the Atlanta State Journal(*) actually managed to receive (and print) several letters from readers who supported the Falwell remarks…

(* = Or some other Atlanta, GA newspaper. Don’t remember the name exactly)

9

PETA.
Without a doubt, PETA.

10

Yes, by all means take PETA, please.

And Al Sharpton, it was not nice to know ya. Shut up and go away. Do not pass GO, do not collect $200.

I’d add the globetrotting “Anti-Globalization Anarchists” but they seem to have declared themselves alienated from EVERYBODY so it’s kinda moot.

The Right already covered the various reverends, who make it just too darn easy. Wanna follow them with the convicted felons, Messr’s Liddy and North? And Pat Buchanan threw himself out of the Republicans, doing more good for them on that single day than in his whole life. You guys are lucky, your wackos stand still while conspicuously calling attention to themselves. Ours are slippery!

11

first of all, Tawana Brawley never retracted the claim that she was raped. There is a still a large amount of people who still think that she indeed was raped, libel case or not. As far as I can tell, Sharpton was stuck in the mud because of the inactions, obstructions and other instances of woefully inadequate consel of C. Vernon Mason and Alton Maddox, all of which leaves no satisfactory conclusion one way or the other to all parties involved. I believe that, being a man of honor, he took a vow to back her no matter what, and it backfired on him on this case. Until she retracts her story (note that there haven’t been any prosecution about false charges), Sharpton is essentially stuck with it.

What I don’t understand is why Black people on high have to made disproportionally accountable for mistakes made, while guys like Howard Baker (who, as Secretary of State, once said, “Fuck the Jews”) essentially get a pass?

12

I believe many blacks get a pass on thier words.

Remember when Jesse Jackson referred to NYC as “Hymietown”?

Remember when Donna Brazile, Al Gores black campaign manager, said “We can’t let the White boys win”. Probable not, since this racist slur was’nt widely reported in the mainstream media.
Can you imagine the hell to pay if someone managing Bush’s campaign had used the slur “Black boys”?

13

I’ll go with

Strom Thurmond and Jesse Helms(US Senators) and Rush Limbaugh.

also,

Green Peace, Those moron anarchists that fuck up every Anti-Globalisation rally, that asshole that ran for vice president with Al Gore, his name escapes me right now.

Louis Farrakhan is an easy one. Binyamin Netanyahu (former PM of Israel).

Ralph Nader (for owning stock in Occidental Petroleum, I don’t give a fuck if it’s through a mutual fund. Sorry no cite at this time.)

I could go on for hours. Oh yeah, the parents of Littleton Colorado that really truly honestly think that video games killed their children.

Erek

14

Nader? Occidental Petroleum? That slimey hipocrit!! Now I’m somewhat molified that my vote didn’t count.:smiley:
Most of the extreme Rights in America seem to operate on the “squeeky wheel” principle. Squawl loudly get oil (get lubed?:D)

15

Yeah, and as I recall, in that infamous dinner conversation, he was quoted as referring to someone else saying it, someone like Harry Truman. Yet he is almost always excoriated by the right for this remark.

16

Upon reading Capacitors post, Infidel shakes his head and says “tisk, tisk, tisk”

17

Interesting that Pat Robertson calls Fred Phelps a “nutcase” when Jerry Falwell’s statements reflected the same point of view. Perhaps Phelps is a nutcase because he shows his true colors so openly and doesn’t spend enough time trying to lie and mislead people into following him first? :wink:

Or simply because he doesn’t raise enough money?

18

Guin - ya know I think the world of you, but if you want PETA up there, give me a reason why nobody who wants to hold their head high in public should be associated with them. They’ve done a lot of good, I think, along with some of their more outrageous moments. Have they done something so bad that nothing else they do can redeem them? Or am I imagining the good they’ve done?

Same on the other side: JRDelirious, it shouldn’t be that hard to dig up plenty on Liddy, Ollie, and Pat Buchanan, but ya gotta do it, otherwise this thread is just a dump-fest.

Ditto mswas with your well-balanced list.

Basically, the point was, you’ve got to show why your guy/gal is beyond the pale. You can’t just say “Hillary Clinton. Did you see her while Bush was giving that speech?” (No, don’t start on that; we’ve already done that thread.)

So c’mon, guys and gals. Give it the old SD try. Nobody said fighting ignorance was easy. :wink: