What I REALLY want from women . . .

The BBQ Pit
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Meet more women. Here are a few. Though I think it’s silly to make sweeping statements like ‘men/women always want sex more’ when we all know it’s a bit more complicated than that. Does resorting to masturbation count? Does quality count? If a person really, really wanted it wouldn’t they be a rapist or get a prostitute? I think this stereotype is unfair (and untrue). It’s fine, even cute, as a joke. But I’m sure it leads to plenty of arguments and failed relationships because the guy feels inadequate or the woman feels like an anomaly (or, more likely, a whore).

What’s the difference between not giving a BJ unless a guy cleans out the garage and not cleaning out the garage unless you get a BJ?

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Met plenty. You can maybe get a few statistical outliers to self-select, but that doesn’t make the basic assertion untrue.

Now you’re just teasing me. Everyone knows rape is just an abuse of power and an expression of a desire to humiliate. It’s got nothing to do with sex - so I’ve been told many times. As to prostitution, you probably know female prostitutes make far more money out of horny men than male prostitutes do out of horny women. (Though as for me, the suspicion that I’d be parting with hard-earned cash in exchange for a deeply regrettable experience with someone who couldn’t care two hoots whether I had a good time meant that I never really, really wanted it that much.)

Well, if you want to have at it again, there’s nothing stopping you from opening a thread. But like I said, it doesn’t generally take long before most women, at least, have to admit they want it less than their men, and have to resort to making excuses as to why it’s the man’s fault.

Heh. I guess a woman can always clean out the garage herself if she really, really wants it done, but there are tolerably few men who are supple enough to turn that one round, if you get my drift. :stuck_out_tongue:

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Doesn’t look a lot different to me, but then I have sat out the battle of the sexes for varying periods of time on account of the apparent rules being stupid, incomprehensible, and followed by people who strenuously protest all the while that they don’t follow such rules. So I might have no clue what I’m talking about, but I don’t give a damn, either.

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Cripes. All I said I wanted was a hug. Or some nonsexual touching. How about a kiss that doesn’t count as foreplay?

eerie774–I think I love you. I wish more guys were like you. Or I wish I KNEW more guys like you–I’m sure there are plenty of guys like you out there…
Aangelica–you speak wise words.

Cat Fight and DianeG also make good points.
The whole rapist thing–that’s beyond me. But then I can say that I’ve never led a guy on, deliberately or with malice aforethought. That’s not a nice thing to do.

But if, as has been said, we are flirting and I think it’s just flirting, but the guy thinks he’s going to score–I’m being manipulative there? Fuck that. No way. That’s all on the guy. Now, if I were to promise a BJ for a job done, and then not deliver–that’s a shitty thing to do. It’s not rape by any stretch of the imagination but it’s still contemptible and nasty.

I guess I just don’t understand all this “manipulation” stuff. Define manipulative. I let you buy me a drink/dinner, so now I owe you sex? No way. I smile at you and make chitchat in the halls at work, so now you think we’ve got some chemistry and sex is on the menu? I come home and ask for a backrub, so now I owe you sex? WTH? Can’t a backrub just be a backrub?

Someone, please tell me how to act and what to say. I only want to do the right thing. And while you’re at it, please note that in doing so, you are putting me in control of your sexual outlets. If I can only do certain things or say certain things or act a certain way to avoid “manipulating” you–isn’t that* ipso facto* manipulation?

You are making yourself the victim, the one acted upon, the passive one. How did I become in charge of your sexuality? I don’t want to be; I didn’t ask for it. You are in charge of YOU-all of you. I will not be the gatekeeper of you sexual satisfaction or frustration. If I want a backrub, then that’s what I want. Why do you think there is more to come? This is all in your head.

If how I dress, how I look, how I talk to you sends you messages about the likelihood of your having sex, I think you need to get a hobby. Blue balls are “cured” by hand, my friend.

125

Okay, so what I want from a woman is that she shouldn’t be in denial about the sexual come-ons she’s been giving with her dress, demeanour and conversation (or as naive as a nun if she truly believes she’s not been conveying anything by non-verbal and implied communication, though I don’t truly believe based on the facts that she’s a nun), that she shouldn’t want to have it both ways by maintaining there’s no connection between her heroically keeping her legs shut and me not getting any tail, and that she shouldn’t think that she’s telling me anything earth-shattering in her suggestion that my own hand would be a more reliable source of gratification than either her or any other woman I’ve ever known.

If she doesn’t mind my horrendously long run-on sentences, that would be a bonus.

126

In the interest of fighting ignorance and all that, may I point out that this expression is made up of three words? Malice, Of, and Forethought.

With that out of the way, I have to say that some of you folks have known some messed up people! If I spent all the time that I should, counting my lucky stars that my wife doesn’t fit any of these descriptions or behave in any of these ways, I’d never get any work done. Neither of us would even consider treating the other in the ways described in this thread. There are none of the mind games, none of the guilt trips, none of the manipulations, none of the baggage, none of the misunderstandings or mixed signals. I could tell early on that she was going to be a keeper, because she was so totally not like these people you all describe. She was worth leaving my country for.

Of course, this is why I was single until I was 39. All the women I’d encountered previously fit any number of these descriptions. I couldn’t live with that kind of stress for the rest of my life, or even some of it. I don’t know how anybody puts up with it, or why.

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No, actually she’s using it correctly:
Malice Aforethought

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Personally, I don’t care. I just want a BJ. If she said, “Honey, if you clean the garage, paint the family room, mow the lawn, do the laundry, make dinner and then perform an Irish jig while balancing a bowl of kiwi fruit on your head, I will give you a BJ. And if you change the oil on my car I’ll even swallow,” you can bet your ass that I would have all those chores done in record time.

You all know the saying, “Sex is like air; it’s not important unless you aren’t getting enough.” Sex shouldn’t be used as a weapon against someone or a tool to get people to do things. But sometimes it is just not as important to one person as it is to the other, no matter how much the subject has been discussed. Instead of being mutually enjoyable it can be considered an inconvenience or a chore or an obligation. So people will take it any way they can get it: solo, as a reward, or outside of the relationship.

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Hmm. Looks like my teachers were wrong. That’s how I was taught. I never saw it written the other way until I came here. Sorry, I retract my correction.

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There are a LOT of good points being made here…and a lot of bad ones.

In no particular order:

My wife and I deal with my inconsistent feast-n-famine sex drive vs. her ragingly high libido on a day to day basis. It’s one of those “truisms” that I’ve only seen counterexamples for that men have higher drives than women.

In answer to eleanorrigby:

Manipulation with sex vs. flirting is one of those “I know it when I see it” sort of things–I’m trying to think of a way to quantify the difference, and the only clearcut case of the former is the girls I’d occasionally see in college who seemed to delight in flirting with the dorky guys in my frat just enough to get a continuous stream of drinks, meals, computer help, homework help, etc. but never once had any actual interest or any intention to even consider them a potential partner. Which is probably where the line is–flirting implies there’s either an honest chance of progression further or that there’s a understanding from both sides that it’s just flirting–which is why I only flirt with people I’m attracted to or friends I trust. I don’t really see the attraction in flirting with random uninteresting people once I decide they’re not potential sex objects or partners specifically because I’ve become aware of the possibility of manipulation without intent.

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I’m amazed that so many men, when they fail to get laid, become convinced that they’ve been manipulated by us evil Jezebels, rather than consider the possibility that perhaps they’ve misinterpreted these mysterious “signals” we’ve sent them.

Newsflash, a woman who displays cleavage in your presence doesn’t owe you pussy. Get over yourselves.

132

Yeah, because if men could not find a partner for sex any time they want, there might be some kind of societal problem involving women who will have sex with men in exchange for money.

Seriously, there’s a reason why it’s the oldest profession in the world, isn’t there? Do you think millions of guys want to part with cash in a really nasty part of town while risking arrest and disease instead of just finding one of the many, many women ready to have sex because of the thrill of it?

As to your observation about standards, I don’t know if you’ve ever seen real life prostitutes, but they are not at all like Julia Roberts.

And if there were some other explanation for the enduring, ubiquitous presence of prostitutes other than a gender difference in desire for sex, there should be lots of heterosexual male prostitutes standing on streetcorners in every town in the world.

Sorry, but your argument just doesn’t fly, and I’m not sure of the purpose in trying to make it in the first place. Clearly men generally have a much greater drive for sex than women do.

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I agree with you that pussy is not owed for showing clevage. I differ with your smarmy attitude about it. So, what then is the purpose of showing clevage?

Isn’t the purpose at least to make one feel better about herself due to her ability to generate a positive response to their sexual characteristics from desireable males?

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DianaG, if you want to cock-tease, that’s your affair. But if you want to deny you’re doing it, you get over yourself.

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And you’re welcome to believe that every woman who glances in your direction is coming on to you, but you’re deluded.

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Missed the edit window.

I apologize, I’m a bit pissy today.

Honestly though, I’ve been amazed by people (men *and * women) who insist that others are “hitting on them” when I’ve been watching the interaction, and all I’ve seen is what I consider to be normal, friendly socializing.

And that’s what I meant earlier by people who fool themselves into seeing what they want to see, and then blaming the people around them for “manipulating” them.

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If you display cleavage you owe us nipples. :smiley:

I had a friend who loved to wear tight blouses and short skirts. No big deal. She was proud of her figure and loved to show it off. She and I would flirt with each other (dumb sex jokes and innuendoes) but it was all joking because we were both married and all of us were friends. We all knew it would never go any further.

I also knew a girl who dressed in a similar manner. She would go to clubs, smile at strange men, let them buy her drinks, dance with them and rub up against them. When she’d talk with them she would put her hand on their thigh (majorly different from just touching his arm or shoulder) or whisper in their ears. At the end of the evening she would go home alone, satisfied in the knowledge that all she spent for the night was maybe her first drink. And she’d laugh about how she had the guys drooling over her and how they would stampede over each other to light her cigarette.

Real flirting implies that you want the non-verbal communication to progress and develop into something more intimate, whether it is just an exchange of phone numbers or a hop in the sack. Leading a man along is just being a tease.

Men do it too. Guys will chat up a girl, string her along for a while and then dump her once he’s gotten what he wants. The difference is that typically the man is still paying (I know, old fashioned and sexist thinking but still depressingly common), so no matter whether he is leading her along just so he can get into her pants or she is leading him along just so she can get a few drinks, he ends the night with an empty wallet. There are no innocents in the battle of the sexes.

And eleanorigby, I’m trying to have myself cloned. I’ll let you know when it works.

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A bit? Don’t let me catch you on a bad day, then. I didn’t say anything about “glances”, did I?

Apology accepted in the spirit in which it was offered.

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Hell, when you leave the sex out of it, its turns out to be just a subset of the section of humanity that winds up other humans in varying ways just to get whatever kind of rise out of them.

For the rest, what eerie774 said. The difference is plain.

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In other words, they’re all trolling?