[QUOTE=Telperien]
In other words, they’re all trolling?
[/QUOTE]
I was going to say something about “Flirting with the intent to wind people up” being effectively real-world trolling, but then I thought that’d be too dorky.
Since you CAN apparently read my mind, how YOU doin’?
[QUOTE=Hentor the Barbarian]
So, what then is the purpose of showing clevage?
[/QUOTE]
Purpose? Owning breasts, not looking good in boat neck tops and being a few inches shorter than most men… is that a purpose?
I find this fury over flirting a bit disheartening. It just reeks of jealousy and bitterness. I don’t want to live in a world without a little charm, one where I have to worry about all the men I might be leaving disappointed or angry 'cause I wore a nice outfit (figuring out what each of them finds attractive, of course. If I’m in nice shoes, it’s for the foot fetishists. If it’s tight pants, it’s for the ass men), acted friendly, maybe even had a drink, then ended the day somewhere other than on their dick. I like flirting. With women, even. Though I’ve never had any of them call me manipulative for not screwing them.
[QUOTE=Hentor the Barbarian]
I agree with you that pussy is not owed for showing clevage. I differ with your smarmy attitude about it. So, what then is the purpose of showing clevage?
Isn’t the purpose at least to make one feel better about herself due to her ability to generate a positive response to their sexual characteristics from desireable males?
[/QUOTE]
You know, I missed this before, but I’m right back to pissy now.
The PURPOSE of showing cleavage? Seriously? Do you honestly imagine that I, or any but the smallest percentage of women, get dressed in the morning thinking “Hmm, how can I get the boys to notice me? I know!!!” Holy crap, I’ll repeat… get over yourself.
I show cleavage for the same reason I show elbow. Because it’s there, and sometimes my clothing is cut in such a way that it’s uncovered.
[QUOTE=Zeriel]
I was going to say something about “Flirting with the intent to wind people up” being effectively real-world trolling, but then I thought that’d be too dorky.
Since you CAN apparently read my mind, how YOU doin’?
[/QUOTE]
Mighty fine.
And hey, what’s wrong with dorky? 
[QUOTE=Cat Fight]
Purpose? Owning breasts, not looking good in boat neck tops and being a few inches shorter than most men… is that a purpose?
[/QUOTE]
Hmmm. If there were an emoticon innocently batting its eyelashes in a disingenuous manner, this would be the perfect time for it.
“Oh, whatever shall I do? I don’t look good unless I’m showing a large portion of my breasts, and I just cannot help it if I’m in an unfortunate position due to my height.”
I could ask what you mean by looking good in one type of garment versus another, but I suspect it would just be a trip down the rabbit hole. No point there if you really want to play innocent about what DianaG was referring to when she said “showing cleavage.”
[QUOTE=DianaG]
I show cleavage for the same reason I show elbow. Because it’s there, and sometimes my clothing is cut in such a way that it’s uncovered.
[/QUOTE]
Those clothes just jumped right in your closet, huh? Well, somehow my wife’s closet manages to produce a whole bunch of clothes that don’t get anywhere near showing cleavage.
I thought it was due to the choices women made when they bought their clothes, but I guess they are just innocent victims of circumstance. I suppose those sweat pants with the letters on the ass just happen to jump out at them as well.
[QUOTE=Hentor the Barbarian]
“Oh, whatever shall I do? I don’t look good unless I’m showing a large portion of my breasts, and I just cannot help it if I’m in an unfortunate position due to my height.”
[/QUOTE]
Oh bullshit. There’s a difference between cleavage and cleavage, and perhaps you could stop batting *your * eyelashes in a disingenuous manner and acting as though you run into far more of the latter than the former.
Some of y’all might want to consider that you don’t get laid because women can smell the misogyny on you.
[QUOTE=Telperien]
Mighty fine.
And hey, what’s wrong with dorky?
[/QUOTE]
Nothing much, but it’s not really fitting into the increasingly angry vibe of the thread.
In a vain effort to stay on-topic, this is fun flirting. The minute you or anyone else touches my thigh, it’s potential manipulation. =P
[QUOTE=DianaG]
Some of y’all might want to consider that you don’t get laid because women can smell the misogyny on you.
[/QUOTE]
Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner!
I’m glad they’re here making their feelings known though. I’m pretty new here, it’s helping me get a good idea of who is who.
Hentor, you’re being a toolbox. Clothing is not and cannot be sexually manipulative–if you think it is, you need a cold shower. Bring one with you everywhere if necessary.
DianaG: I’m interested in your take on erie774’s dichotomy between “sexy clothes and flirting - acceptable” and “sexy clothes and flirting - unacceptable” upthread a few posts, if you haven’t already. You as well, Sleeps with Butterflies and Cat Fight.
[QUOTE=Hentor the Barbarian]
“Oh, whatever shall I do? I don’t look good unless I’m showing a large portion of my breasts, and I just cannot help it if I’m in an unfortunate position due to my height.”
[/QUOTE]
Wasn’t there a thread a little while ago about women with DD+ breasts? Cover 'em up, sluts. Yeah, I can wear a sexy outfit, really anything but a burqa, and know I’ll likely get attention. Whose definition of sexy, though? Do I have to wear an old timey swimsuit or assume all conversations I have on the beach are invitations to sex? Am I being coy if I wear heels, knowing how many ‘leg men’ are out there? And what of it? This is just too close to the charge of ‘existing while female’ that people use when women complain about getting harassed on the street.
Really, this thread, like so many others, just disappoints me. Battle of the sexes should be tongue in cheek, people. A back rub should be something nice you do for someone, not your ticket to the ‘right’ to screw. No one owes sex to anyone else. Ever. That’s why it became illegal to rape your wife in North America about 20 years ago. And I’m saying this as a woman who doesn’t get it as much as she’d like. If you’re bitter from a series of bad relationships, it’s time to start looking at the common denominator.
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton]
That’s not quite the same for women, you know. When a woman’s man yells at her, it might, just might, be a prelude to Mr. Hand turning into Mr. Fist. She’s somewhat justified in hating and fearing it.
[/QUOTE]
:rolleyes:
[QUOTE=Hentor the Barbarian]
Those clothes just jumped right in your closet, huh? Well, somehow my wife’s closet manages to produce a whole bunch of clothes that don’t get anywhere near showing cleavage.
[/QUOTE]
I’m getting a real bad anti-cleavage vibe from this thread now. I think it’s time some courageous man took a stand and said, “By God, I think cleavage is GOOD!” I know, I know, my fellow men will think I’ve gone insane, but I don’t care. Also, I will go out on a limb and say that I like it when women smile at me.
[QUOTE=DianaG]
Oh bullshit. There’s a difference between cleavage and cleavage, and perhaps you could stop batting *your * eyelashes in a disingenuous manner and acting as though you run into far more of the latter than the former.
Some of y’all might want to consider that you don’t get laid because women can smell the misogyny on you.
[/QUOTE]
What part of anything that I said was remotely misogynistic? All I’m suggesting is that it is foolhardy or disingenuous to play dumb about what the purpose of flirting is, including dressing in a sexy fashion.
I’m not acting like I run into anything. I’m responding to your comment that pussy is not owed for cleavage. You’re demonstrating one of the problems in all this - there are no set guidelines (cleavage may mean different things), and making my point for me.
I’m again agreeing that pussy is not owed for anything, but I am suggesting that it may not be reasonable to be surprised by a sexual response of magnitude Y from others when one is seeking a sexual response of magnitude X.
[QUOTE=Cat Fight]
Purpose? Owning breasts, not looking good in boat neck tops and being a few inches shorter than most men… is that a purpose?
I find this fury over flirting a bit disheartening. It just reeks of jealousy and bitterness. I don’t want to live in a world without a little charm, one where I have to worry about all the men I might be leaving disappointed or angry 'cause I wore a nice outfit (figuring out what each of them finds attractive, of course. If I’m in nice shoes, it’s for the foot fetishists. If it’s tight pants, it’s for the ass men), acted friendly, maybe even had a drink, then ended the day somewhere other than on their dick. I like flirting. With women, even. Though I’ve never had any of them call me a manipulative bitch for not screwing them.
[/QUOTE]
The difference is how it is done. Presentation means a lot.
I’m going to set the wayback machine to 1986. I was unattached, stationed in OK. I’d go to a bar in town. Across the bar I’d spot a woman that I found attractive and it appears that she is single (she’s not talking with anyone, no ring on her finger). She’s wearing a blouse that is cut so low that I can see the fringe on her bra. Her jeans look painted on and are also slung low enough to expose ass cleavage.
I ask her if the stool next to her is open, she says yes. We introduce ourselves and make small talk about the band and the bar. I do my damndest to maintain eye contact and not dip my eyes down (sorry ladies, but breasts exert a very strong gravitational pull that overcomes ocular muscles). I offer to buy her a drink because that is the polite thing to do. She accepts.
I ask her to dance. It is a fast song so there is no implication that I want to cop a cheap feel. I’m no Fred Astaire but I also don’t look like the villagers should be chasing me with torches and pitchforks. The song ends and a slow song starts. I ask her if she wants to stay on the floor or head back to the bar.
Here is where the gears in a man’s mind start churning into overdrive, trying to figure out intentions. If she says she wants to go back to the bar, I ask her if she’d like another drink;
a. if she says no, then thank her for the dance, tell her it was nice meeting her and move on.
b. If she says yes, then she apparently wants me to stick around for at least a little bit longer. It’s not great but I might get a phone number if she is willing to put up with me for a while. If she starts leaning in closer to me and touching me, I’m probably going to get more than a phone number.
If, however, she says she wants to slow dance then:
a. she can maintain a little space between the two of us (more of a waltz then anything else) and it is just her way of being polite. Nothing further is going to happen, so enjoy the dance, thank her and move on.
b. She moves in close to me, puts her head on my chest, her arms around me. She’s attracted to me. It might not go any further tonight but I am doing good. Enjoy the softness of her body, the smell of her hair, hope that my palms don’t sweat and pray to all the gods above that she can’t feel the raging hard-on that she has given me.
Women hold all the cards. They are the only ones who know if he’s going to get lucky with her tonight.
As I’ve said, flirting implies that something further might happen. I’ve seen women dressed in the most provocative, skin tight outfits, wearing their come-fuck-me spiked heels, yet they give off the “don’t even think about talking to me, you worthless worm” vibe. Great to look at but if you even say, “Hi,” you will slink away missing a testicle, sometimes literally. Other women can be dressed in a sloppy t-shirt, dirty jeans, steel toe boots and give off the vibe, “I’m going to ride you like a rodeo star and put you away broken and wet.”
[QUOTE=Zeriel]
Hentor, you’re being a toolbox. Clothing is not and cannot be sexually manipulative–if you think it is, you need a cold shower. Bring one with you everywhere if necessary.
[/QUOTE]
Really? I’d suggest that billions of dollars in advertising is spent with exactly the opposite premise in mind.
[QUOTE=Zeriel]
Hentor, you’re being a toolbox. Clothing is not and cannot be sexually manipulative–if you think it is, you need a cold shower. Bring one with you everywhere if necessary.
DianaG: I’m interested in your take on erie774’s dichotomy between “sexy clothes and flirting - acceptable” and “sexy clothes and flirting - unacceptable” upthread a few posts, if you haven’t already. You as well, Sleeps with Butterflies and Cat Fight.
[/QUOTE]
Personally, I think it’s crap. So he’s basically saying that it’s ok for a man to empty his wallet on drinks as long as she pays up with the sex at the end of the night. It still makes it seem like somehow he’s not in control of himself.
We’re not talking about little senior citizens being swindled out of their life’s savings by a con artist, we’re talking about grown people who make a choice in hopes of receiving what they want. I don’t play that game, I don’t let men buy me drinks. I have my own money. Some women do play that game and it’s up to the man to make sure he doesn’t play her sucker. Just like it’s up to the woman to make sure she doesn’t fall for the man whose game it is to pick 'em up and bang 'em and never call them again (unless that’s her thing too).
We’re all responsible for making sure we don’t get fooled by these (mostly) obvious game players.
[QUOTE=Sleeps With Butterflies]
Personally, I think it’s crap. So he’s basically saying that it’s ok for a man to empty his wallet on drinks as long as she pays up with the sex at the end of the night. It still makes it seem like somehow he’s not in control of himself.
[/QUOTE]
There’s no point in my actually writing any words at all if you are going to respond to something straight out of your own head. Before you write another word about what I am saying, I would request that you find anywhere that I’ve said anything remotely of the sort.
[QUOTE=Zeriel]
[DianaG: I’m interested in your take on erie774’s dichotomy between “sexy clothes and flirting - acceptable” and “sexy clothes and flirting - unacceptable” upthread a few posts, if you haven’t already.
[/QUOTE]
I think that the behavior he describes, intentionally leading men on for the purpose of obtaining free drinks, is contemptible. I wouldn’t want anything to do with someone who habitually behaved that way.
[QUOTE=Zeriel]
Nothing much, but it’s not really fitting into the increasingly angry vibe of the thread.
In a vain effort to stay on-topic, this is fun flirting. The minute you or anyone else touches my thigh, it’s potential manipulation. =P
[/QUOTE]
I have long arms, but they’re not that long, so your thighs are safe from me for now. 
(this is always fun, but we should probably do it somewhere else, which is fine by me)
