What if George Lucas made Luke and Leia children born of rape? [edited title]

In this Pit Thread ranting against tacked-on Romantic Subplots, YogSosoth complains:

Now that’s just one throw-away example in the OP. I tend to agree with many of YogSosoth’s complaints, but I wanted to just highlight this one particular example. Of course, I didn’t like the prequel trilogy any more than anyone esle here but if George Lucas was to tell the Anakin Skywalker Story then a romance would be vital to the story- in my opinion.

We already know that Darth Vader is Luke and Leia’s father, so in the prequel we have to meet their mother. YogSosoth says the romance “severely weakens Vader” but if not for a romance the only other option would be rape. Would that have been better?

I think showing that Anakin could be loved by a woman, a truly good person, is needed in order to set up his fall from grace. Through the romance we see that Padme can see a good man in Anakin. The original trilogy adressed this through Luke’s certainty that his father could be redeemed. Anakin Skywalker as a good person who is damaged so much that he becomes evil is central to George Lucas’ vision of who the character is.

Now I don’t want to put words into YogSosoth’s mouth, and reading the quote it’s possible he’s only complaining about the “whiny teenager” aspect that weakens the character, but the central theme of the entire OP was that tacked on unneccessary romantic subplots ruin movies. I see no way you could remove the romance from the prequel trilogy without making Luke and Leia into rape babies- which just would not work for me.

If punctuation was ever needed, it is in the thread title.
Can it please be made slightly more clear, so we do not end up as the first hit on some perverts kiddie porn search.

Thank you for that. I had trouble parsing the title and the OP.

Is romance and rape the only two options?

How about a political marriage where they marry to further their respective career goals.

The idea is really to make him seem like the rest of us. And to do that - you kinda need some romance. The could have played up more his whole feelings being hurt for not being promoted fast enough.

But no one is going to risk a blockbuster by not having the obvious female lead doing her part.

There are two different ways to parse it, but there is nothing wrong with the punctuation. There is no appropriate space to add any punctuation. You can’t complain to me about the dark places your mind takes you. :stuck_out_tongue:

Yeah, there are middle ground options but the romance is the only option that really drives the notion that is a redeemable character.

I didn’t mind the romance at all - however, I was troubled by the fact that they had to get married. Was Lucas afraid we’d respect Luke and Leia less if we found out they were illegitimate? Or is implied pre-marital sex simply too racy for the SW universe?

The title may be grammatical, but it’s terrible writing. Especially given the issues about Indy and Marion, it took me four tries to understand that you meant “the result of rape.” So thanks for that image on this lovely morning.

Changed the thread title from “made Luke and Leia rape babies” to “children born of rape.”

Cancelled spin-off thread-“What if Chewbacca ate his own children?”

There are certainly many options available to the prequels other than rape, but I think pretending like you can excise romance from those movies is silly. Anakin is a teenager and it’s the rare teenager who never falls in love with anyone. We also know that he at least started off on the right path, so we should expect at least an attempt at a “healthy” relationship before he goes off the tracks.

The problem with this relationship in particular is evidenced by the commentary on Revenge of the Sith. In the scene where the two lovers meet, the people who made the movie comment on how it took six weeks to animate all the space ships as Anakin’s ship was landing. Then they comment on how the dialogue inside was drafted the night before and given to the actors the morning of the shoot. So we see Lucas’s priorities: 42 parts CGI to 1 part writing to 1 part acting.

If there was a way to render romance in CGI, I’m sure they’d have been much more enjoyable movies.

If only George had watched some other movies. I believe there was this character named Han Solo and another one called Leia, and there was a great romance between them that was nicely scripted and acted and done in a way that didn’t require great lengthy periods of moping. But those movies had a shortage of CGI dinosaurs and windows, so I can see how George was distracted.

I find your lack of faith in punctuation’s efficacy… disturbing.

I don’t think in some alternate universe they’d necessarily need to be the products of rape (although that would make Annakin/Vader even more of a monster). How about:

  • the results of an accidental pregnancy
  • the children of Padme’s other lover (now there’s a complication!)
  • children Padme didn’t want but felt morally compelled to bear
  • children Padme didn’t want but Annakin really did, and she went along just to please/placate him

[waves hand, sing-songy voice]

“These aren’t the babies you want to abort.”

[/waves hand, sing-songy voice]

You forgot: Children that Padme really wanted but Anakin didn’t.

I agree with you on this one, especially since the whole idea of “marriage” is something that doesn’t show up in the original trilogy and may as well have not existed in the Star Wars universe.

But yeah, the main problem with the Anakin/Padme romance is just that George Lucas can’t write romance to save his life. The concept of Anakin being too emotional, and starts the path of pushing him away from the Jedi, is kinda integral to the character.

Oh, you’re no fun anymore.

I will put some words into my mouth! :smiley:

The purpose of that other thread was to decry the forced romantic subplot as a whole but I have no problems with romance done well or romance that doesn’t feel forced (even if not done well). I simply hate romance due to executive meddling though

It would have made the films more gritty and dark, and only you can be the judge of whether that would be a good thing or not. Given what the end result was, I can say for certain that whatever we got now is not good and if I could go back in time to force Lucas to alter the script in any way, I would. And I don’t necessarily agree that we had to meet their mother, nor does meeting the mother mean she had to have such a big role. Like the topic says, if they were a result of some traumatic experience, it could work as well

Well this may not be the popular love story to choose, but there was an established love story already there, that of Anakin and his mother. It didn’t need to be Padme, it could have been someone else.

Its both. Whiny teenage Vader did hurt his character, but a bad love story (or just a bad story in general) also hurt Vader. In my experience, whiny teens and a badly written love story has a propensity to ruin movies (and in this case, Vader), so neither should have been considered as a first option

I haven’t watched the prequels all the way through - but is there anyway to make Padme, or someone in her family evil and manipulative (even if unintentionally) and have Anakin somehow “bullied” by her / her family?

In other words - make his journey to the dark side the result / fault of something that Padme does?

Maybe in such a universe Padme (or maybe her manipulative and “Jedi powered” mother) could have “forced” Anakin into the relationship - and then tipped him over the edge by denying him access to the children?

The fall of Anakin required that he truly love Padme -

  • he had to continually hide stuff from the rest of the jedi council
  • when Padme became ill (what did really cause that?) - it allowed the emperor to offer something the Jedi couldnt (both due to the hiding/lying and the dark force aspect)
  • forcing Anakin to kill the Jedi in order to get what the emperor was offering - only to have the emperor take it - sealed his hatred - not of the emperor or the jedi - but of himself - making him the perfect second.

In short - while the scenes/acting/writing were horrible - the neccesity of it was critical.

He couldn’t save his mother as a Jedi
He couldn’t save Padme (or his children) as a Sith.

He had nothing left now BUT the Emperor - as he had betrayed everyone BUT the emperor.

I think it’s the teenage aspect that hurt Vader the most. The romance could have worked if it were a mature romance and didn’t come off as an impetuous teen infatuation. The wedding was like 5 seconds, and dialogue-less. Of all the things to complain about in the prequels, I can’t believe that makes the list.

I’m not the first person to say it, but the prequels would have been immeasurably better if we skipped little Ani (Yippee!) and started with a Teen Anakin on Tatooine. (Racing pods would have made more sense, little Ani hitting on Padme would have been less creepy, his takedown of the droid control ship would have been cool instead of silly…) Then instead of flashing forward to Teen Anakin in AOTC, flash forward to Adult Anakin instead. Make his fall more of a series of bad choices instead of a teenage snit.

Actually, if Lucas really wanted a left field reveal, Luke and Leia could have been Obi Wan’s kids. Secrets within secrets sort of thing. Vader would still have reason to think they’re his. Love triangle stuff.

The Phantom Menace should have been about Obi Wan anyway.