I would lose all respect for him…and if I saw him on the street…I would have to think to myself…what a pussy…
You presume to understand the will of God.
You are like ant trying to divine the thoughts of a man.
Or at least thats the argument.
The associations I made are in the bible not in folklore.
1 John 3:8
It’s also an incorrect argument thanks to the Christian insistence on tacking all those “omnis” onto their god. “God’s will” is besides the point; if there was an omniscient, omnipotent creator of the universe then everything that has ever happened or ever will would happen according to its exact plans, by definition.
All of these associations are directly made in the Bible?
1 John 3:8 (King James Version)
" 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil."
i was obviously asking for specific actions that he would want to atone for, like killing all the firstborn sons in a country, drowning almost every living creature on Earth, turning a woman into a pillar of salt for being weak and looking back at the home she had known her whole life, etc.
Well onmiscient doesn’t necessarily mean that you know everything that will happen.
Omnipotent doesn’t necessarily mean that you control everything that happens.
Of course the Christian use of these words when describing God does imply knowing the future and controlling every molecule in the universe.
And perhaps there is a purpose to all this suffering and pain and evil int he world or perhaps he doesn’t give a shit and just lets stuff happen.
Tempting eve with the Fruit of knowledge?
Rising up against God?
Um, yes it does.
If you are omniscient and created the universe it does.
There can be no greater purpose to pain and suffering when there’s an omnipotent involved; anything that pain and suffering can accomplish the omnipotent could accomplish without them. By definition. If there’s pain and suffering in a world created by an omnipotent it is because the omnipotent wanted pain and suffering for their own sakes.
And if “he doesn’t give a shit”, well the Problem of Evil only applies to a tri-omni god in the first place. And in practical terms since believers typically don’t want their god to be amoral, uncaring or evil, your argument might as well be an argument for God not existing at all. Both are unacceptable to them.
The serpent wasn’t Satan, and what did the serpent do that was wrong anyway? All he did was tell Eve the truth. Why is that a sin?
How is this possible without God’s will?
And if the Perfect Master won’t forgive him, that pretty much settles it!
Yes it does. That’s the definition. It means you know everything, past, present and future. Plus the Bible says that God knows the future.
That’s exactly what it means. That’s the definition.
An omnimax being does not require a means to an end. It needs only to will the end. Anything that can be done with pain and suffering can be done without it. It is logically impossible for pain and suffereing to be necessary for an ominax being.
If he doesn’t care, then he’s not good, which is a sine qua non for God. The Problem of Evil does not rule out a God who is not good, but it’s not meant to.
We clearly need a "What if Yahweh said… “I’m Sorry” thread!
You have yet to tie Satan to that serpent, remember? No skipping steps, please.
Cite?
I don’t know what Damuri is, but, bear in mind, the “That’s not in the Bible!” argument only gets traction with Protestants. Catholics, even after Vatican II, acknowledge the validity of extra-Biblical traditions. (I don’t know about the Orthodox.)
That’d be awesome, too!
Think about it. If the big white dude with the beard* emerged from the clouds around the United Nations and said something like “I apologize for all the capricious acts of nature that have killed so many millions of my children. The great tsunami was a horrible mistake, the Lisbon earthquake was an abomination, and the famines in Africa have been horrific. They are all mistakes, and I greviously repent. Also, I apologize for not intervening in times of great human suffering and not saving my children from Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, and all the others. Free will is one thing; depraved indifference is another, and I am sorry.”
Brothers and sisters, that’s infinite shades of awesome right there.
Not gonna happen, but it undeniably would be awesome.
*Not PC, but it’d get him recognized.
For some reason this thread makes me think of a really crappy direct-to-video movie I rented once, Dark Angel: The Ascent. (A young she-devil gets curious about the world above, visits, falls in love, etc.) In this movie, every devil in Hell seems to be Catholic. (I’m sure it was written by Catholics, because there are lines about “the One True Church” and “the First Cause.” Of course, Christianity is Catholic.) They (at least the first generation of them) did rebel against God, but they’re really sorry now. They pray to crosses despite being cut off from Heaven. They speak of themselves as “the Lord’s servants” (as punishers of the damned) rather than His enemies. The dissonance between this and the traditional image of demons in Christian mythology is never discussed or noticed.
I’d settle for “We apologise for the inconvenience.”
Well, it still allows for freewill and the consequences thereof, doesn’t it?
Depends on what you mean by omniscient and being omnipotent doesn’t mean you have to exercise that omnipotence, does it?
You seem to think you can understand God’s will.
Sure, but if it was good enough for Conan the barbarian…
Other parts of the bible refer to the old serpent as satan. SOme people have taken this to mean that the serpent was satan.
He didn’t merely tell eve what the fruit was, the title tree of knowledge of good and evil might have done that. Didn’t he say “God doesn’t want you to eat from this because it will make you as smart as him” he enticed her to doing something that God forbade.
Perhaps, Satan can exercise freewill as well.
I dunno. I don’t really feel qualified to argue theology with people who seem to have spent a lot of time thinking about this stuff.