What is it with women and gay men?

[MOIDALIZE]

I read a recent article or blog, which I can’t locate (and which may or may not have been written by a gay man), wherein the author posits that many women see being a “fag hag” as a kind of fashion statement, evidence of a cosmopolitan and progressive nature. The author lamented that such women seemed to be more interested in the benefits of such a friendship to themselves, and tended to focus on the “girly” interests of these men rather than getting to know them more fully.

The article made me feel sorry for gay men. Though I’m sure there are Perez Hilton-types out there with fruity personalities that genuinely enjoy doing things that are “fabulous,” I got the impression that most gay men just want to be regular dudes, by and large, and that being relegated* to befriending women because they found it difficult to befriend straight men can be kind of a bummer in some ways.
*Not trying to say that women are no fun, but speaking for myself, socializing with women can be…exhausting.

[ianzin]

@lavenderviolet

The gay guy is never going to make an unwanted sexual advance or try to take advantage of a girl, which is always a potential danger with straight guys.

Shame on you for perpetuating such a hate-filled and ignorant opinion. I’m straight. I have never made an unwanted sexual advance or tried to take advantage of anyone, and I never will. The same goes for countless other straight men who know how to behave decently and respectfully towards everyone, women included.

The fact that you may be able to find some straight men who make unwanted advances does not mean this risk is always present. It is ignorant, unhelpful and insulting to tar all with the same brush. Some women perpetrate acts of violence on men (e.g. Aileen Wournos), but it would be absurd for me to extrapolate from this and say that all women present the same risk. If you must sit in judgment, then judge each case on its merits, and assess each individual based on his or her character and behaviour.

[raindrop]

@Koxinga

@Koxinga

Ah hah . . . it occurs to me now that probably the “safety” offered by a gay guy has to do in part with the woman not having to worry about not trusting herself.

Once again y’all are painting it as a matter of all about the big bad male and what are his intentions, but there are two parties involved in those disasterous drunken booty calls, you know. Is it so much the worry over being offered the proposition . . . or more the risk that once it’s offered, you’ll say “yes”?

I’m still interested to see if anyone has a view on this, pro or con.

Con.

1. What you pulled out of context from Sampiro’s post did not seem to be what he was originally trying to convey. And putting it back in context makes a big difference. So, you were reaching quite a bit IMO.

2. Your she-just-doesn’t-trust-herself interpretation simply does not describe how I experience myself.

@gang_green

Boy, what a can of worms this has turned out to be!

I’m not saying that I like gay men because they’re less threatening, or anything like that. It has more to do with the fact that he’s a friend that will remain that way, and you won’t have that sinking feeling one day if your straight male friend suddenly starts expressing more carnal or romantic interest. Turning him down usually ends up destroying the friendship, and then you wonder if maybe you led him on or something. Did he really like me as a person, or did he just want to get into my pants all along? I don’t spend time during the friendship wondering these things, but they certainly come up when things blow up that way.

It’s a cliche, but the “let’s just be friends” thing didn’t become cliche because it never happens. You see guys complaining about that all the time - “she said she just wants to be friends!” - as if it’s a fate worse than death. Girl who doesn’t put out = not worth knowing, or something. Very annoying.

As for the escort thing, in an unfamiliar environment or in a place surrounded by unfamiliar people, most women simply must maintain a certain level of wariness or they are likely to be preyed upon. Not fair, not cool, but ignoring it doesn’t make it go away. So having a good male buddy you can count on when you just want to go out dancing or to a concert is a really nice thing.

I haven’t had the gay friends but most of the rest you’ve written is very familiar. I’ve had a few of those who got the “I like you only as a friend” speech from me and then they never spoke to me again. That was always confusing. When the guy had put a lot of time/effort in cultivating an apparent friendship I felt the loss of a friend. Even though I realized he hadn’t really been a friend after all, I still felt the loss. I also felt betrayed: if he was only interested romantically, and not in a friendship, he should have made it clear much earlier so we both didn’t need to waste our time. And he had just been a very huge fake. And he definitely does not score points for giving me the message that once the potential for sex is gone I’m no longer worth knowing at all. While I can easily accept that last attitude from strangers, getting it from someone who I considered a “friend” is a bummer.

You see guys complaining about that all the time - “she said she just wants to be friends!” - as if it’s a fate worse than death. Girl who doesn’t put out = not worth knowing, or something. Very annoying.

When many guys hear “friend” they take it as the worst insult. But when I use the term “friend” it’s intended as a compliment and I’m really putting him in pretty high position. That’s because I use the word “friend” to designate those men I value who I’d like to keep in my life. And I never use the word “friend” for the total rejects, because well, the “total rejects” just never go in the “friend” category. Of course, a guy who interprets “friend” as the worst insult while I intend it as a compliment is also telling me that we’re probably not compatible as friends after all.:dubious:

[matt_mcl]

@MOIDALIZE

I got the impression that most gay men just want to be regular dudes, by and large, and that being relegated* to befriending women because they found it difficult to befriend straight men can be kind of a bummer in some ways.

This is pretty confusing to me and I’m trying to suppress a feeling of insult on behalf of my women friends. I’m not friends with them because, poor me, superior straight men don’t want to be friends with my faggot self, so I have to settle for the distaff side. I’m friends with them because they are awesome human beings who I love and want to spend time with.

Seriously, think about what this says about women. “Relegated”? Seriously?

[Koxinga]

I think MOIDALIZE was saying it was the women who find it difficult to befriend straight men. I think he was also trying to express some sympathy that women might be looking to a gay guy for “what” he is rather than “who” he is, which isn’t necessarily all that nice to the guy.

[Der_Trihs]

@ianzin

Shame on you for perpetuating such a hate-filled and ignorant opinion. I’m straight. I have never made an unwanted sexual advance or tried to take advantage of anyone, and I never will.

Unless you are a telepath or so incredibly sexy that women leap on you before you have the chance to ask, yes you probably have made unwanted advances.

[matt_mcl]

@Koxinga

I think MOIDALIZE was saying it was the women who find it difficult to befriend straight men. I think he was also trying to express some sympathy that women might be looking to a gay guy for “what” he is rather than “who” he is, which isn’t necessarily all that nice to the guy.

That makes a little more sense. I see the pronoun referent was unclear. Sorry for biting your head off, MOIDALIZE. I still find the word “relegated” questionable though (to say nothing of “fruity personality” – smile when you say that, okay?)

[Cat_Fight]

@gang_green

It’s a cliche, but the “let’s just be friends” thing didn’t become cliche because it never happens. You see guys complaining about that all the time - “she said she just wants to be friends!” - as if it’s a fate worse than death. Girl who doesn’t put out = not worth knowing, or something. Very annoying.

There’s also the dreaded ‘friend zone’ or being ‘used’ by a girl (which, when described, often ends up sounding eerily similar to the general description of a friendship with a woman).

@Slithy_Tove

Hey, just be glad we’re not back in the bad old days. Straight women may have buddied up to gay guys sooner than straight guys did, but back then they were pulling their fair share of the hate load. Dear Diane Keaton who makes these charming “love is still there for aging, affluent baby-boomer” movies was in a thing called Looking for Mr Goodbar. The message in its last five minutes was an affirmation of the cherished conviction that homosexuals were simply failed heterosexuals, and, if confronted with this reality, would lash out murderously.

Oh they still exist. My friend’s mom has a gaggle of gay male friends but, you know, she still thinks they’re going to hell when they die and that they shouldn’t be allowed to marry while alive. No idea how their friendship works.

That being said, I also know young gay guys (mostly fashion types) who are basically leeches who bad mouth their sugar mommies behind their liposuctioned backs, or who dump their fag hags the second a hot guy comes around (or they get to the front door of a club that won’t admit women). So let’s not pretend all these friendships are Will & Grace & Sunshine all the time.

I actually agree with and can relate to a lot of what’s been said in this thread, but obviously this thread is full of generalizations, as if it’s easy to sum up a ton of friendships in one stereotype.