What is the best way to deal with a socially clueless person?

In My Humble Opinion
1

Some of you may remember my rant at clueless mothers from last January.

Things had been better with the one person I volunteer with, largely because she hadn’t been around as much, but also because we as group made explicit rules about the expected behavior of children at our meetings.

But I just came from a meeting (luckily only volunteers meeting together, no members of the general public) where this woman’s kid projectile vomited all over another person’s living room, and the mom kind of cleaned her up, and then just stayed at the meeting, continuing to talk about issues, and after about 20 minutes going out to her car to bring in a snack for her other kid - clearly she was camped out for the duration. There were two other kids under 2yo, and their mothers were clearly worried about contagion. The owner of the house cleaned up with towels and started liberally applying Lysol. And the mother of the sick kid just sat there, clueless, letting her child touch every toy in the room.

After the rest of us left, this mom stayed, and the woman who owns the house tried to get her to leave by saying things like, “You should probably go home and take care of Jane, she’s sick.” She did not actually come out with, “I’m afraid you’ll get my baby sick, please leave.”

I think the rest of us in the group are hesitant to address this explicitly. To me, it is always more polite to address something obliquely if you can, so the other person can save face and not feel embarrassed. But clearly that’s not going to work here.

My husband thinks it’s actually more polite to “respect the person enough to be upfront.” I can see what he means, but at the same time, I sometimes refer to him as “the Vulcan,” and his bosses have repeatedly tried to teach him some basic diplomacy skills because he unintentionally terrorizes people with his bluntness.

So, how do we approach this? Right now I’m thinking face-saving is off the table, and I’m willing to say, “Mary, when Jane threw up, I was concerned she might be contagious, and I think the other mothers were too. If something like that happens in the future, I think you should take the kids home immediately.”

My husband thinks even this is too weasely, since I know the other mothers were upset, since we discussed it. He says to admit this. I think it is inflammatory to essentially say, “We were all talking about you behind your back.”

What say you? Anyone have other, more creative options? I don’t think “firing” her from the group is really an option, for what it’s worth.

2

Everybody talks about other people behind their back. In fact, when you tell her that you “think” the other mothers were upset, the only way you could think that is if those other mothers had in fact said something to you about it.

Diplomacy is a good start; the hostess began well by saying things like, “You should probably go home and take care of Jane, she’s sick.” A socially aware person might understand all the implications of that sentence, and so that subtle reminder is enough.

But if you can’t achieve your goals through diplomacy, and IF your goals are important enough (and I’d say the health of your children is important enough), than you pursue your goals (getting mother and sick child to bug out) via means other than diplomacy. Be blunt, since this is what is necessary to get her attention. This is not a speculative case of “others might get upset,” it’s a real case of “others DID get upset,” and that’s an important fact to convey to her.

I’d change it to something like:

“Mary, when Jane threw up, the rest of us were concerned she might be contagious. If something like that happens in the future, it would be best if you took the kids home immediately.”

3

Honestly, I wouldn’t do anything. The kid threw up. Stuff happens. It is possible that she has a weak stomache and this happens all the time to the kid (enter my son).

4

As a more or less socially clueless person (though not as bad as this mom), I say be upfront and direct. Some of us are socially clueless because we have trouble reading subtle social cues. So forget the cues. If I’m somewhere with a sick kid, just say “She’s sick. Please take her home”. Not “Do you want to take her home?”, but “Please take her home”.

Misunderstanding people like this is frustrating, at least for me. If I were your friend, I’d want you to be more direct and make things clearer to me.

I don’t care if people talk about me behind my back, as long as nothing’s going to change for me as a result of said talk.

5

…yeah… I’d be curious about ‘why the vomiting.’
I’d find that out before getting in someone’s face.

I bet somewhere on another board a mom would be complaining about moms who think their precious snowflakes can’t handle the outside world.

6

I agree with this ompletely. Subtlely is nopt the way to go. If you phrase a request as a choice, they may take the alternative you didn’t want. (“Would you like to…?” “No, thanks. I’d rather…”) Be polite but direct instead.

I speak as one of the clueless.

7

Some people just can’t take a hint, and being too direct can damage these sorts of acquaintances (I hesitate to call them friendships, because I can be pretty blunt with my friends and know they’ll still love me.)

I’d start out by finding out if the kid threw up because of an illness or something else. As the mom of a gluten intolerant kid, I know that most often when she throws up, it’s because she got glutened, and there’s nothing contagious about it. Of course, I’m also socially savvy enough to say, “Dang it! I KNEW that soy sauce wasn’t Thai…sorry, guys, she doesn’t have a fever or a rash, she’s not contagious…let me go get a change of clothes and clean her up.”

Perhaps, “Woah, Jane! Is she feverish? Do you think she’s contagious?” and listening to the answer is a place to start. If she says, “No, it’s her IBS” or “She’s not warm, I think we got some bad sushi last night”, then you just chill and realize that the damage has already been done (if she’s wrong) and continue the playdate as long as the kids are having fun. If she hems and haws, then you say something like, “Man, I hope she feels better soon. We’ll see you next week!” And hope she takes the “hint”.

If that doesn’t do it, YOU leave, with your kid. Yes, that doesn’t provide an easy out for the hostess, but it takes care of the danger to you and yours. That’s when the hostess must remember a pressing engagement elsewhere and apologize for double booking her day, as she gets the stinky kid’s coat and hat.

8

This is the problem. Why did she hint? Why didn’t she say “Take that sick kid out of my house before my children get infected”?

To me, it implies that she believes that social propriety is more important than familial health, which is kind of bizarre.

(And my wife does this all the time, which frustrates me to no end.)

9

Well, even if the kid isn’t contagious, whatever caused them to throw up could cause it to happen again, so I still think it’s impolite to linger, even if it’s not as egregious as setting up four families for a stomach virus. I do understand the point being made. One time my daughter barfed in the morning and then seemed fine, so I chalked it up to overfull stomach and went ahead with the party I was having that evening.*

Anyway. Maybe I’m just more hesitant than the norm, and my friends happen to be too. But with someone I have to continue working with, I feel extremely anxious when I contemplate having to confront something like this directly. I think also in this case, we all just expected her to leave, and then she didn’t, and then by that time it seemed like the hostess was alright with her staying, since she didn’t say anything right away, and then she felt awkward saying, “take that sick kid home” right out.

At this point I’m almost thinking we should just let this incident recede into the past, but just remind ourselves that in the future, we will have to be very bald and direct if she does something we are uncomfortable with. I.e., after 15 minutes I realize she’s staying despite her kid throwing up, I then say ASAP, “Just in case she’s contagious, I think you should take her home.”

*only to have everyone who attended blorching their guts out within the next few days, but I truly thought it wasn’t a virus, and had informed everyone of the facts ahead of time and invited them to bow out if they liked.

10

They are everywhere. I was vomited on and had to clean up after a young girl who was dropped of sick. I was sick for the next week. Nothing like getting live virus all over you…

In church last week I told my client we can’t sit here anymore. She can’t hear but I would like to. I wish I knew how to approach the nice young couple with the 3 beautiful but misbehaving kids. I can see the parents are at their wits end but how long does an infant need to scream before you get up and take the baby outside? The other two are climbing all over the mother or father and fighting. I don’t know if they just don’t know they are bothering people or they do but don’t know how to make the kids behave?

I’m just going to sit somewhere else.

11

No, taking your barfing child home is Basic Mothering 101, unless you can immediately explain it with “Sorry, she gets carsick easily” or similar (as in allergies etc., but if my kid throws up from allergies it knocks her out for hours). Kid throws up, kid goes home.

12

Yeah, for this incident it’s over and done with and “complaining” about it would only make things worse.

But in the future, direct questioning will do wonders for everybody’s peace of mind.

13

Either your friend is socially clueless, or she’s a jerk.

If she’s socially clueless, being more direct with her will help. We don’t WANT to make these kinds of blunders, but we do it because subtle hints are lost on us. Trying to get through to us by hinting is like trying to get through to a blind person by gesturing- it just won’t work.

If she’s a jerk, and cares more about getting to spend time with her friends than she does about not spreading contagious diseases to them, or making terrible messes in their living rooms- well, why would you want someone like that as your friend? Jerks don’t care if others are uncomfortable or inconvenienced, as long as they get what they want.

Did she not even offer to help clean up the vomit in the room? That makes “jerk” more likely, if she didn’t…

Yes, this is the way to go.

14

Hold your hands out, fingers making a cross, while shouting

“LEPER! OUTCAST! UNCLEAN! DEPART FROM THIS HOUSE YOU FOUL BEAST!”

:smiley:

15

She would probably leave after 30-40 minutes of that.

16

I have been the socially clueless person before, though not to the degree the OP described. When it comes down to it, blunt is best. Just withhold any anger. First, describe the situation to them. Then, tell them what to do.

“Jane’s Mom, it looks like Jane is sick with a contagious stomach virus. She’s miserable, and the other children could catch what she has. You need to take her home. I’ll fill you in on the meeting, and we’ll see you next time. Here, I’ll help you gather up your things.”

Please believe me that when I’ve been the socially clueless person, it was usually because I was tired or stressed or was completely occupied by something else. When the dust settled anywhere from an hour to a week later, I was mortified. On one occasion, someone did bluntly tell me what was going on*, but did it in a way that left me humiliated. I was morbidly sensitive at the time, which did get me to pay more attention, which in turn led me out of the realm of clueless, but it could have been less painful.

  • It was college. I was a 17 year old freshman. A neighbor invited my friends and me over to meet her boyfriend, up for a visit. After about five minutes of chatting, I settled in to hang out, which is what we usually did. One friend invited me to the library. I declined. Another suggested dinner. I wasn’t hungry. Finally, one of them said, “phouka, they’re going to have sex, and they don’t want to have it in front of you. Get your stuff and let’s go!”
17

Some folks are less squicked out by vomit, especially if the kid pukes at te drop of a hat. To me it would mean time to go home, not so for some people they just deal with it and move on.

Took my nephew to the batting cages once, it was in Helena and we were in Butte so a long drive. Halfway there Dan upchucks in the back seat (allergy meds). This alarms me mightily, I want to turn around and take him home. He pleads no and tells me where a car wash is to hose down the interior. My toddler is also in the car, I worry about evryone getting sick. But onward to the batting cages. he was fine, no one else got sick end of story.

Now at a kids sleepover, one kid got sick blamed it on spicy cheetos, I suggested she should go home, she said no. She wanted to stay and hung out anyway. She should have gone home, the next week all of the girls had the stomach flu.

18

Respect is being honest with someone, especially when their behavior is impacting how the rest of the group feels about them. If you truly want to respect your friend you should be honest with her. Negative feedback is always difficult to give regardless in a work setting or a social setting. But you are being disrespectful to your friend by not making her aware that her behavior is having a negative impact upon the group and how the group feels about her. You are not giving her a chance to change and thus permit the group to change how the feel about her.

Sure there’s a risk that upon learning how you all feel, that she decides that the rest of the group is being unreasonable and she doesn’t want to be a part of your group anymore, but that’s better than all of you gossiping behind her back.

19

That was my thought as well. What the hell?

20

I’m curious as to why anyone would want to not damage such an acquaintanceship. I tend to be direct and honest. If that doesn’t work, than the person is avoided in the future. And I do not clean up someone else vomit. I mean, WTF?