My experience is that most managers are unable to measure their worker’s productivity in any meaningful way. Which is why in some companies overtime becomes part of the corporate culture. Sometimes the only way employees can demonstrate their worth is by working overtime, protecting their jobs and advancing their careers. This can become pathological - long hours can be detrimental to the quality of work people perform.
I’m not capable of concentrating fully for the 37.5 hours I work a week, let alone for 60 hours. My job requires high levels of concentration, I’m a Software Engineer. So anything more than small amounts of carefully targetted overtime is detrimental to my productivity. I think I get nearly as much done in a 4 day week as I do in a 5 day week, as I’m more rested. I find this a useful argument when talking to my manager.
There are as many “dreams” as there are people. It’s the freedom to pursue whatever those may be that helps define a democratic society.
I would certainly question if even the stereotypical American dream of the postwar years is possible anymore, though, given the extreme increases in the costs of housing and college education anymore. A couple of generations ago, a year of a good college could be earned with a summer job, and a house cost no more than a good car. One salary was enough to pay for all the necessities and a few luxuries for an entire family. The job could reasonably be counted on for life, with full medical coverage and a good pension at the end. It wasn’t that hard for anyone who wanted to work to get on the ladder. But now, those options are closed to many or most people of the age that is starting to plan their lives, no matter how hard they work, and they have a right to feel cheated. “Living the American dream” now seems to be defined for many as “Winning the lottery and paying off the credit cards one needs to live on”.
I have to suspect that the stereotypical American dream of the past better matches the reality of today’s Europe than of today’s America. Housing, while not cheap, is still affordable for a young family. College educations, while increasing, are still relatively reasonable even for private schools. Basic social services are guaranteed, although by governments rather than corporations. Other barriers exist, sure, but that bottom rung of the ladder is still within reach. Is that assessment far off?
Well if the studies quoted by Kimstu are correct, social mobility is either about the same, or higher in Europe than the US. Thus the “American Dream” rags to riches via hard work story would seem equally or more possible in Europe.
To be honest, thats about i’d expect. The various benefits and subsidies European countries provide for unemployment, health, education, and housing aren’t just there to help the less well off (although that is an important reason). They are there (especially in the case of education) to try to provide equality of opportunity for all, regardless of background. Providing all this is very expensive, and if despite all this spending EU countries still have lower social mobility then clearly it is not working as intended.
This is a bit of a hijack, but I was just reminded of the recently launched “voluntary simplicity” or “sustainability” movement that is trying to shift focus away from the emphasis on materialism in the traditional American Dream. Cf. the Center for a New American Dream:
I don’t know how Europeans would react to that mission statement, but there might be some common ground there.
Speaking in generalities, which can’t be prevented because of the limitations of this medium:
I shall try to give some impressions about the Belgian situation, which I think can in its basics be extrapolated to several other EU nations:
There is no equivalent of the A.D. in Europe.
There is no such mercyless competition (caused by several intertwining factors) in the society as there is in the USA.
The system is in general aimed at providing equal opportunities for everyone including those who are less fortunate or disabled. This has as result that there is an underlying feeling of a certain moral and social engagement and sense of responsibility towards those less fortunate/disabled.
The mindset of people is not focussed at prestige/carreer for the sake of prestige.
The focus is not aimed at “sticking out” because of carreer/money/succes. Money is in my opinion (and especially in the middle class) more considered as a welcome tool one can use for making life pleasent (especially in free time, for travel and hobbies). It is not a goal considered as a necessity to be looked at as “succesfull” by other people.
Money is not something to show off with if you received some decent upbringing. I would say: Quite the contrary. If you have it, you use it as you please, but you don’t look down on those who don’t have what you have for whatever reason they don’t have what you have.
Academic studies/carreer are respected and a goal for a certain amount of the population. Yet people who don’t attend university because they choose to get schooling in what you call “blue collar” professions are in general not less respected. They can also count on a reasonable payment when putting their knowledge in practice. (minimum wages and other pre-fixed wages scales is in my opinion a contributing factor to this).
Unskilled labour is not looked down on because of the reality that someone has to do the job you maybe wouldn’t dream of wanting to do.
Unskilled or lower skilled/schooled people are called regularly to join programs to try to get additional schooling (most of the times this is a question of demand for certain skills on the labour market)
State Exams make it possible for those who for whatever reasons dropped out of the schools system, or came behind or want to proceed quicker in their school education then others to study when they want/can. This starts on humaniora level and goes upto university/doctorate.
In general, my opinion is that the mindset in USA is much more focussed on “the winner gets it all” and so sorry for those who can’t follow the rat race.
There seems to be no safenet and not much concern/compassion for those who can’t follow the race and even not much of a safenet/consideration for those who did follow it, but dropped out because of circumstances.
To give an example
I used to be in contact witha US woman of 62 years old, her husband is 72. They had a flourishing business and worked with their whole heart to make and keep it what it was. Yet because of several unexpected events the came to loose everything.
At her age, this lady finds herself in the need to work day and night to be able to simply pay for the treatment of the healthproblems of her husband.
I don’t find such a situation desirable in any developped nation. I have the impression that it is on of the dark backsides of the shining coin of what you call the A.D.
The US society is indeed providing for the soil to “make it” because of several factors that are available overthere.
But that same society provides also for the mindset that it only depends on you to reach it and that when you can’t, it is all your fault.
That is not realistic and in my view inhumane.
Maybe Europeans were too busy learning about eachother’s languages, cultures and weapons to have time to create something as phoney as a national “dream”. Europeans dont have the luxury of living in a vacuum.
Hey, I never meant for the discussion to focus on a “dream” or whatever. I only wanted to know what was the European equivalent. I know it isn’t really as talked about as the American Dream, if it ever is, but there is a difference between Europe and America there, for sure. Instead of wanting to work hard to improve your lot in life, Europeans in general seem to be more satisfied with their place and do the best to enjoy it. Many Americans’ lives are based around this struggle. Sure not primarily as most people have tons of hobbies and side-ambitions. But if an American is to think to himself, “What is my plan for the future” I would guess the younger he gets, the more likely he is to believe that he will vastly improve his lot. After all, its amazing how sensitive we are to criticism. Americans are very sensitive to this and as someone mentioned earlier, American Idol is a good example. Some people have never heard before that they can’t sing, lest someone destroy the meaning to their lives (eg. the stuggle to make yourself into a rockstar). I think Europeans would derive meaning from other sources. Where? I don’t know, and it probably depends on the person, but I don’t believe near as many people find meaning in a “strugle to improve your lot in life.” That’s probably why Europeans are more likely to dish out criticism and more likely to not care about criticism. Who cares if someone tells you that you’ll never be a moviestar.
How would a European define the main “struggle” of his life? Or the point, or long-term goal?
…and we don’t have the luxury of sitting around cafes all our lives knowing that the government will take care of us if we don’t care to work too hard and save for the future.
A future that usually doesn’t include trips to Europe for the average person, BTW, so exactly how much should we ‘learn about it’?
The European dream is to make society better, improve the “system”, the way how we live together.
Americans, on the other hand, at least as I have been told by a couple of them, know that their system is perfect. So they proceed to the next step: preach the good message to the rest of the planet. Liberty! Democracy! Capitalism!
Again, I would not wish to speak for other Europeans, but what’s so good about “struggling”? It is true that the quaint old “protestant work ethic” is not strong here. Perhaps the dream is that everyone can work and save, but that no one need truly suffer life in abject poverty.
It’s a pretty bad example actually, since it was originally Pop Idol, a British program (hence the presence of Mr Cowell), and the early stages were also jam-packed with un-self-aware dipshits.
I think there are a lot of stereotypes floating around this thread, on both sides. We Euros have entrepreneurs. We have billionaires. We have welfare wasters. We have socio-economic upward (and downward) mobility. I suspect there’s a different emphasis on the proportion of people who leave education with a drive for economic success, but in many ways it’s kind of like the States.
Personally, I’m happy to live in a society where the basic bare minimum below which society (theoretically) should not allow one to fall is designed to be just about humane. But YMMV.
Sorry about the use of stereotypes, fellas, but I am just trying to figure out a little bit better what makes Europe different in this crucial (for me) department. I feel much more pressure from society to become something or make something from myself in America, and I notice that it isn’t there so much in Europe. While I don’t mean to say that people don’t dream about such things in Europe, it is different. People my age aren’t so worried about what they’ll do in the future. In Germany? Hey! I’ll stay in college till i’m 27! And no its not just dependence on social welfare. Its very important to notice that there isn’t this social pressure to be a leader as there is in America. I can really tell the difference but I don’t know why its there.
I look at it this way: If Europeans are qualified to make vast and sweeping commentary upon US culture and society, I am EQUALLY as qualified to make vast an sweeping commentary upon “European” culture and society. Now, just look at what I might say and how correct you might think it to be. That is how correct a European should consider his/her/its/vanooblia critiques of the USA.
Goose, gander, sauce.
I have personally met Europeans who actually did not realize that, yes, nearly all of the entire USA is settled, plotted out, apportioned, owned, and used by somebody. I’ve met Europeans who were utterly astonished that I was not identical to what they had seen on TV of New Yawk Sitty, and that I have never actually been there–nor to Lowss Angle-less, either. Believe it or not, contrary to the lies promulgated about us, the majority of Americans I know and have met are not fixated upon great wealth. Those “American” families portrayed on TV are of income levels that represent the top 25% or top 10% of US income, or even less. I have NEVER met a cop who can afford to dress like they do on a US cop show.
I’ll just presume that I can take “Fawlty Towers” and decide that all English society is just like that. That’s right, yes?
I find this a rather confusing attitude. Surely if you’re not an ignorant asshat - as the Europeans you describe clearly are - you should educate them, rather than act as idiotically them? If an American is being ignorant about an aspect of Ireland or the UK, I’d rather tell them where they’ve gone wrong than make up stereotypes about the US in retaliation.
Would that attitude be so common if one knew that one had to pay for college and that there was no source of guaranteed money for college fees, not even a guarantee that one would be able to afford food?
To enlarge upon this: I made the following statement:
If A then B. A’ is likely to be as true as B’.
A: Europeans are qualified to make vast and sweeping commentary about the USA.
B: I’m just as qualified to do their schtick about Europe.
A’: Sweeping generalizations and out-of-backside commentary from Europeans about the USA.
B’: Sweeping generalizations and out-of-backside commentary from me about Europe.
I think you mean denial of the antecedent. Invoking formal logic in “real world” issues isn’t usually very helpful - the trouble with goosing ganders is that you might be hoist by your own petard.
The European higher education systems and Germany in Particularly are no world model, and they are underfunded. Sure it only costs 150 Euro for tuition, but there are no assurances about food. I don’t know where you got that. That wouldn’t even really matter though. In Europe you can get along fine without a College education and it isn’t uncommon to see bright people not attending a University. Its not expected as it is in America that you have to get a Bachellors degree or work in McDonalds. In Germany the education system is divided between the smarter and less smart students much earlier than age 18 as it is in America, which I agree with. We are too afraid in America to hurt someone’s feelings and tell them that because they are in the “Dumb school” they’ll never grow up to be a CEO. In America you feel bad if you are at a student party and someone responds that they don’t go to college when you ask someone what they’re studying. “Oooh, I didn’t really want to point out that he’s not smart enough to go to college, damn…” That’s not true, I know, but it is there and many people believe that. Its not the case so far as I’ve experienced in Europe.
Don’t try to dismiss the European way if you haven’t seen it or experienced it. I know that in America it is very hard to understand. I had a hard time understanding it to begin with, and I still have a hard time getting my mind around it. “How can these people not be upset that they have no chance of moving up in life?” But the point is that they were never taught to believe that it was possible in the first place. That leaves you a lot of time to enjoy it where you are than some endless struggle to the top. In America those who made it to the top look at themselves and think, “I sure do take a lot of satisfaction from the fact that I’ve made it so far. Why look at where I came from and look at what I have now!” That’s nice, but its not something that most people can do.
Democratic Socialism isn’t a dirty word here in Europe and it is good in many ways. If you could see some of the things that are here and not in America it would make you wonder. High taxes or not, it does make society more equal.
I am not dismissing the American system either, I simply say that I notice the difference and I prefer the European one. That’s because I simply put more focus on enjoyment rather than acchievement in my life. And by enjoyment, I mean personal acchievements that I wouldn’t have so much time for in America.
