If I had to guess, I’d say 4% of the time they had vaginal intercourse instead, or continued to insert toys or fingers into the vagina after there was semen present.
Or, you know, drippage containing viable sperm. I just think it’s a great statistic to throw into this kind of discussion–even in the butt, Bob, doesn’t necessarily keep you from getting pregnant.
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
The cite that withdrawal will virtually always lead to pregnancy is in the numbers you already posted. Pulling out will succeed in causing a pregnancy every 5th time that you do do it. Do it for a week and you’re up the spout.
[/QUOTE]
You do realize that there are really only a few days a month where a woman can concieve under normal circumstances. Granted ther are those who ovulate at odd times but those are outliers in reproductive statistics.
Interpreting the stats like this would end up with all but the sterile and celibate cranking out another kid every year.
[QUOTE=Harriet the Spry]
You are totally misunderstanding how all of these numbers are reported. They are based on annual numbers. That is 20% failure rate means 20% chance of pregnancy after a year of activity. For the pill, with a 1% failure rate, that’s not 1 pregnancy in 100 acts of intercourse. If it were, assuming twice per week, most women on the pill would be pregnant within a year.
[/QUOTE]
Exactly.
*waits for Dio to admit his error and apologise for his excessively confrontational attitude when, just for once :dubious: , he was dead wrong.
[QUOTE=Malacandra]
Exactly.
*waits for Dio to admit his error and apologise for his excessively confrontational attitude when, just for once :dubious: , he was dead wrong.
[/QUOTE]
Better grab a magazine, as it’ll be a long wait.
[QUOTE=Red Barchetta]
Better grab a magazine, as it’ll be a long wait.
[/QUOTE]
Do you happen to have a copy of War and Peace handy?
[QUOTE=Otto]
It buuuuurns!
[/QUOTE]
snerk
Damn you for getting that in before me!
[QUOTE=Malacandra]
Exactly.
*waits for Dio to admit his error and apologise for his excessively confrontational attitude when, just for once :dubious: , he was dead wrong.
[/QUOTE]
Here I brought lunch.
::: Hands Malacandra a sandwich:::
This may take a while. Want a glass of ice tea?
[QUOTE=LurkMeister]
Do you happen to have a copy of War and Peace handy?
[/QUOTE]
Right, because if you grab a magazine, you’ll have both a mess and a lot of time on your hands.
[QUOTE=NajaNivea]
See above, edited for clarity.
[/QUOTE]
The clarification doesn’t help. There isn’t any male who can reliably know that he will never begin to ejaculate before he feels the sensation of orgasm. It’s not an individual quirk. It can happen to anybody.
[QUOTE=Harriet the Spry]
You are totally misunderstanding how all of these numbers are reported. They are based on annual numbers. That is 20% failure rate means 20% chance of pregnancy after a year of activity. For the pill, with a 1% failure rate, that’s not 1 pregnancy in 100 acts of intercourse. If it were, assuming twice per week, most women on the pill would be pregnant within a year.
[/QUOTE]
Fine. A 20% chance of pregnancy within a year is still an unacceptable number and it’s still grossly irersponsible either to rely on it or reccommend it to others. I can’t believe there’s even an argument about this.
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
The clarification doesn’t help. There isn’t any male who can reliably know that he will never begin to ejaculate before he feels the sensation of orgasm. It’s not an individual quirk. It can happen to anybody.
[/QUOTE]
Disagreed. I know that I can tell the difference quite easily. Of course, it’s impossible for us to draw any kind of reasonable conclusion of the majority based on either yours or mine anecdotal and subjective evidence of one.
[QUOTE=Red Barchetta]
Disagreed. I know that I can tell the difference quite easily. Of course, it’s impossible for us to draw any kind of reasonable conclusion of the majority based on either yours or mine anecdotal and subjective evidence of one.
[/QUOTE]
Everyone can tell the difference. The question is whether you can always know that you will never begin to ejaculate before you feel the sensation of orgasm. It’s irrelevant that you can tell when you’re ejaculating if you haven’t withdrawn yet.
I don’t know, I mean, I’m having sex currently (okay, not RIGHT now) with someone I trust, but I’d never use withdrawal. I figure the human error factor is a bigger deal with the withdrawal. Plus, while I could put on a condom on the guy if I wanted, if he’s going to be an asshole or just plain stupid, I can’t control for that. (Also if the woman is on top, how do you know when to pull out?)
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
Everyone can tell the difference. The question is whether you can always know that you will never begin to ejaculate before you feel the sensation of orgasm. It’s irrelevant that you can tell when you’re ejaculating if you haven’t withdrawn yet.
[/QUOTE]
:rolleyes:
Okay, look. If you are prone to premature ejaculation, or orgasms that sneak up on you, then don’t use withdrawal as a method of birth control. The question of what you “can always know will never happen” doesn’t even make sense. You can’t always know a condom will never break. You can’t always know a diaphragm won’t slip. You can’t always know you won’t come unexpectedly, but that’s what Plan B and backup methods are for.
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
Fine. A 20% chance of pregnancy within a year is still an unacceptable number and it’s still grossly irersponsible either to rely on it or reccommend it to others. I can’t believe there’s even an argument about this.
[/QUOTE]
Perhaps unacceptable to you, but for others with other contraceptive needs, desires, and priorities, a perfectly acceptable option with clinically tested efficacy rates that fall precisely in line with other clinically tested and medically acceptable non-hormonal methods of birth control. I can’t believe there’s even an argument about this. Are you really quibbling with the statistics, or are you just being disputacious for the sake of it?
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
Everyone can tell the difference. The question is whether you can always know that you will never begin to ejaculate before you feel the sensation of orgasm. It’s irrelevant that you can tell when you’re ejaculating if you haven’t withdrawn yet.
[/QUOTE]
What point did you think I was trying to make? I always when it’s going to happen.
I actually agree that recommending withdrawal to *women * is pointless. For this post only, call me Harriet the Cynic. But if a guy wants to lessen his risk of creating a pregnancy, the statistics have spoken.
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
Condoms are like 97% effective if used right, and the same professionals who advocate against withdrawal also advocate against things like sponges and spermicides as a sole means of birth control.
There is no meaningful difference between 85% and 19% effective when it comes to birth control. Withdrawal virtually guarantees pregnancy if used as the sole means of birth control. The goal of pregnancy is to prevent pregnancy, not just make it take a few more tries.
[/QUOTE]
I’m with WhyNot? on this one your argument is pretty lame. I bet you don’t tune up your engine or inflate your tires either right? After all 3% isn’t much of a savings, it doesn’t make a difference.
I don’t use a condom ever with my wife, I don’t pull out or use any other form of contraceptive. We’ve conceived a total of once. The odds of getting someone pregnant are actually rather low, so if you cut them down to a quarter of what they would be otherwise, you’ve decreased the chance significantly.
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
You can start to ejaculate before you feel the sensation of orgasm. Ejaculation and “coming” are really two different physiological processes for men.
[/QUOTE]
Yes, but you can also feel the ejactulate before it leaves the tip of your penis. At least I can.
Besides, you want to come in her. Semen makes women happy!
[QUOTE=Rick]
:eek: A quarter cup? :dubious:
[/QUOTE]
See: Peter North.