Thanks!
slurp
…Is it just me, or are the crickets kinda noisy round here?
The “habit” I spoke of is DtC’s, although as the thread progressed, it became obvious that he’s not speaking out of habit, but of personal experience as proof, and of a willful misunderstanding of the data.
Even those numbers show some effectiveness to withdrawal, Rubystreak. With no method at all, 86% of girls 18-19 will be pregnant after one year. With withdrawal, 31.3% will. 31.3%<86%. Are there other, more effective methods? Sure. But, again, saying that withdrawal has no contraceptive effect, that it’s “useless” and…y’know, I forget the other adjectives **DtC **used, and I don’t care enough to go find them again. Saying that it will get you pregnant in a week is just wrong and stupid, okay? Even for teens.
I agree that withdrawal is not the best method for teens. I do not agree with lying to them to convince them not to use it. In general, I think lying to teenagers about danger is counterproductive - once they realize you’ve done it, your credibility is totally shot, and they won’t believe you when you do tell them the truth.
I’d rather teach them the frightening truth about STD’s rates among teens, show them the symptoms of tertiary syphilis, and watch them scramble for the rubbers!
It isn’t “lying” to tell kids that relying on pulling out is an idiotic method of birth control for teens.
Seriously, do you think there’s some kind of conspiracy by health teachers to lie to kids about the splatter method and not tell them the truth about how wonderful it is? Grow up.
There are other ways to discuss contraception with teenagers than using words like “idiotic”, though. When I speak to teenagers, we talk about the possible options, and withdrawal is certainly included–very nearly every single teenager I speak with has used withdrawal at least once and most of them do so routinely. As a reproductive health educator, it would be idiotic of me to ignore that fact.
Adults lie to teenagers about all kinds of things regarding sex, drugs, and anything else we don’t want teenagers doing, so for them it’s a given. Adults tell them that drug pushers stand on every corner trying to shove heroin down your throat, that marijuana will make you a homicidal maniac junkie, and that if you touch a penis you’ll instantly contract AIDS, tertiary syphilis, herpes, and triplets. They “know” that what TPTB tell them about the associated dangers of various adult pleasures are overblown, and thus are awfully likely to discard real truths along with the hyperbole. For teenagers who have no idea how to get condoms without being seen, or can’t afford them, who haven’t been introduced to a contraceptive clinic, who are just learning that sex is a hell of a lot of fun, withdrawal is always available, always free, and nothing bad will ever happen to you, right?
When I’m talking to a teenager about contraception and they tell me they’ve been using withdrawal, we talk about why people (they) might choose (have chosen) withdrawal, why it’s not the most effective method available, and how to choose a method that is equally convenient, much more effective in actual use, and fits any other personal criteria they have for choosing a contraceptive method. Since for most of them pregnancy is just about the most terrifying and devastating thing they can imagine happening, a quick review of the statistics is enough to convince them that, sure, they can lower the odds by pulling out, but hey look at all these other options we have that are a whole lot more effective in typical use…!
Once we’ve gone through the glorious spectrum of available contraceptive options that are free, available, and accessible, the vast majority will choose something that is far more effective, convenient, and doesn’t rely on trusting your 16 year old boyfriend to have the timing and self-restraint that withdrawal requires. Kids seeking contraceptive information don’t, by and large, want to get pregnant, and they’re there because they do want something far more effective than the 15-20% typical use failure rate of solo non-hormonal birth control methods. Showing them the options, educating them, and helping them choose and use something that will work for them, that they will use correctly and consistently every single time they have sex is going to reduce the number of unwanted teen pregnancies far better than ignorance and hyperbole. In any case, the vast majority want a hormonal method anyway–they’re far more effective and in most ways more convenient than non-hormonal options, so it’s kind of a moot point in most cases.
It’s not that I think teenagers should be actively encouraged to use withdrawal,* it’s just that I think in all cases, truth and education is better than ignorance and fear. I have never advised a teenager to rely on withdrawal unless they’ve directly stated a willful choice to not use any other method of contraception–when that does happen, and it does occasionally, I’ll absolutely encourage them to use withdrawal and send them home with some Plan B and condoms that they may or may not ever use, as well as as much information as possible so that they may return when and if they get ready to make other choices.
All of that having been said, pregnancy prevention is only half the conversation–transmission of STDs is equally germane to the discussion, and therefore condom use is of course heavily stressed and encouraged from both a contraceptive and disease prevention standpoint. We have enormous rates of Ct/Gc here, and most kids are happy to avoid cooties.
In any case, this whole discussion centers not around teenagers, but the truth (and the point we were trying to make) that withdrawal is an acceptable non-hormonal option for couples with the timing and self-control to use it properly. Getting all frothy at the mouth het up over what teenagers do is a bit beside the point. I don’t think we should start wholesale telling teenagers that normal people sometimes use drugs or that the reproductive health care educator talking to them about the risk of relying on withdrawal has been happily and successfully doing so for several years, but it doesn’t mean we as adults need to keep pretending that those things aren’t true.
*except as a secondary method–i.e. “you can start taking your pills this Sunday, but it doesn’t hurt to keep pulling out. In the event that you miss a pill or something, if you’ve been using condoms or withdrawal as a back-up, then your risk of pregnancy is certainly lower.”
So at a 3% failure rate, if I have sex 34 times with a condom, I cause a pregnancy. Do it for a month and it’s virtually guaranteed. Thanks for the life and math lessons.
I’d agree with you for the most part here. However, this has not been your argument throughout the thread.
Yeah, I mean, withdrawal’s effectiveness if used properly is 4% but I’d say it’s a lot harder to use withdrawal effectively than a condom. I mean, I’m not a teen anymore, but I’d still bitchslap any guy into the next century if he had the gall to suggest that I trust him to be smart enough to pull out in time.
One would think so, but it’s apparently not a “lot” harder, according to the cited FDA numbers. We’re looking at 14% vs. 19% annual preganancy rate for typical use in condoms and withdrawal method respectively.
Do you guys actually expect that cites and evidence will cause Dio to admit he was wrong? Have you never read his posts before?
Hey, you tilt at your windmills and I’ll tilt at – THUNK!
ow.
I’m not wrong. I ahve not been proven wrong. The alleged “statistics” in this thread have done nothing but prove me right. What’s ridiculous is the allegation that health professionals and teachers are conspiring to “lie” to kids about the effectiveness of pulling out porno style, telling them it’s a bad idea when in reality it’s just as good as condoms (no it fucking isn’t). What is up with that? Why is it so important to some posters in this thread to believe that? What an asinine practice to try to defend.
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redacted for pointlessness 
Perhaps. I’m just not willing to cede control, especially when I think that my use of condoms is a lot better than the average person’s.
Hey, if I were a woman, I wouldn’t trust the guy, either, unless I had been dating him for a long time.
I don’t buy that number for condoms. How can they track whether these people are really using condoms every time?
I’m not sure I should even bother but…
HOLY CRAP, WHERE’D THE GOALPOSTS GO?
You’ve been proven wrong many times over in this thread. Your initial argument was coming from this:
This is not only wrong, it is SOOOOOOO mind-bogglingly wrong that I cannot believe you’re trying to claim you haven’t been proven wrong. Seriously, do you have some sort of psychological condition that prevents you from admitting being wrong?
edit: Even if you don’t buy the condom numbers, the above statement you made is completely off the charts incorrect.
I’m not sure how the goalposts all of a sudden got moved to whether telling kids withdrawal is ineffective is “lying,” but that’s not what 90% of your arguments in this thread have been about.
I misunderstood one of the stats, but it makes no real difference since even the corrected stats still prove me right. Even using the corrected stat, withdrawal is a horribly ineffective method of birth control, nowhere near as effective as condoms.
A question for the conspiracy theorists: what do you suppose is the motive for the health care teachers to withhold the truth about how wonderfully effective pulling out really is? What do you imagine they’re hoping to gain by “lying” and telling them it’s not effective when (in your fantasy worlds) it’s just as good as condoms.
Define “nowhere near.”
I really don’t understand your logic. Here are the numbers:
Condoms. 14% failure with typical use. 3% failure with perfect use.
Withdrawal. 19% failure with typical use. 4% failure with perfect use.
How does this prove you right?
You can stick to your “fantasy world” editorialization (which no numbers we have seen thus far back up), but disease prevention would be the glaringly obvious reason (withdrawal method provides no disease prevention) and the relative sexual inexperience, hormonally hyped-up nature, and consequenceless mindset of teenagers would make withdrawal more ineffective in this age group. I would expect that the “typical use” numbers for teenagers would be much higher for this reason.