See, I cannot feel mad at them, and I feel bad at myself for not wanting them. I don’t want to deal with it, I want to be left alone, but I know they’re well meaning and trying to help, I cannot fault them. So I just sob yeses and noes and finally tell them to please give me space. Yesterday that got me a hug from my motherly boss!
And Dung Beetle, while I understand and I get the drive to get her a license, I’m still not sure why forcing the other two. A part-time job in the summer, maybe, good idea to learn about the world outside of school and get some money for herself, maybe. But how about if you can get her to a camp, like Maastricht suggested? That may be (socially) more beneficial to her than a part-time job (as a cashier? eeek!). Or some university/college related classes, perhaps a course at a community college, if she’s interested in college?
And the “having a car” part… she doesn’t want a car, why are you trying to force it on her? Why pay insurance on a car she doesn’t want to have? I’m guessing public transport is really shitty where you live that she cannot learn to use the bus and that way go to school or work. Which, btw, I think will also help her socialize a bit more than just taking a car. At least she has to interact with others a little bit.
No no no! This is one of the worst ways to determine if someone is depressed!
Naturally, “seeming unhappy” is an extremely common symptom, but not a necessary one. There are a lot of reasons that someone can be clinically depressed and keep that from showing to the outside world. (I speak from experience.) And others moan and groan about how miserable they are, but aren’t clinically depressed at all. The other symptoms are key to differentiating between “clinical depression” and “situational depression” and “being a drama queen.”
I’ve been giving this a lot of thought, because I like the idea. The thing is, there isn’t anything my daughter cares very much about. She’s sort of confounded us with this her whole life. No carrot-and-stick techniques have ever worked on her, because no “carrots” matter enough to her.
Even if I don’t respond directly to your posts, I am reading them all and giving them consideration. I’ve actually been thinking about bringing this problem to the message board for quite a while.
I agree with the counseling part just in case, but… not caring about stuff that you’re willing to reveal to your mom can be a sign of being a teenager.
Oh, we’ve done this. She’s got an entire studio full of supplies in her room at her mom and dad’s house. They just bought her a new computer, and we bought her software to go with her writing tablet. She’s involved with tons of stuff on the internet because it doesn’t require her to leave the house. She’s plenty capable of being social, she just doesn’t go out. Ever.
She works on tons of art projects all the time, just not toward any end or goal. We offered her several hundred dollars to commission a piece for our new house and she waffled, then just flat out refused because she didn’t feel like doing it.
I’m sure that depression and other issues play a part, but a lot of it just seems like flat out lack of motivation. Not laziness, just a complete and utter lack of goals. How do you make it to adulthood with no discernable goals or even the slightest yearning for independence? I have no way to comprehend that.
I didn’t read the whole thread but this piece caught my eye:
My best friend (a female; I’m a boy) in high school had a button her purse that read “Why be normal?” And, really, why?
I have a 17 y.o. who sounds just like this girl. But she is happy. She spends most of her time on the internet chatting with a boyfriend halfway across the country who she’s visited in person three times. She doesn’t want to drive. Doesn’t really want to go anywhere.
She’s homeschooled, so she’s really isolated and we tried to make an effort to keep the kids involved in stuff. But at some point she just decided she’d rather read and play RuneScape and chat. She helps out around the house A Lot. I loves her!
And she’s very successful in school and headed off to college in the fall and I think she’ll be fine. Will she fit in everywhere? Heck, no. I didn’t. Her mom didn’t. We’re weirdos. Embrace it!
Her 16 y.o. brother, Mr. Social, scares the living heck out of me, with some of the friends he brings home. I’d take ten of Johanna Kerrman any day.
It doesn’t sound like depression to me, unless it’s accompanied by other symptoms.
I’m an 18 year old guy, and I was the same way throughout my entire high school career. Things just didn’t interest me, I sat home and read a lot. I putzed about my room, and I didn’t get my license until a few weeks ago. It just wasn’t necessary, and I didn’t feel the need for it. There was always a car at my disposal, but I just… never got around to getting the license.
If she doesn’t seem sad, perhaps she’s just a classic Introvert, I know I was. Don’t attempt to force her into treatment for depression, because that will strain a relationship that would otherwise be healthy.
She doesn’t need to be depressed to get pissed about you getting into her business. It always thoroughly pissed me off when my dad would attempt to mess with my life, in any fashion. But if he talked to me and expressed his concerns, I’d take them to heart and move on.
I’m 22. From what you’ve said, you could almost be describing me when I was 17 - I did have one non-reading hobby that got me out of the house, but that was pretty much it. Didn’t date. Didn’t really want to drive. Didn’t really have many friends. My parents dragged me to therapy when I was 15 or so, up until I turned 18. It didn’t do any good, because therapy only works if there’s something to fix. Unless she expresses a desire for it, or at least generally to change, forcing her to see any sort of mental health professional will create a decent amount of resentment and do no good at all.
Today, I don’t date, don’t drive, and don’t have many friends. I spend most of my time alone in my room. I’m an introvert. I’m decidedly asocial. Not as much as when I was in high school, but then again I think most people think their lives got better after high school. I’m also a fully-functional person. I have a job. I go to class. I get my work done. I enjoy life. I’m happy, even if my happy doesn’t sync up with the mainstream expectation.
Is there a possibility your daughter has some behavioral indicators of depression or agoraphobia or social anxiety disorder? Sure sounds like it. Does that mean it’s going to keep her from living a perfectly happy, fulfilling life. It doesn’t mean she needs treatment nor that any sort of treatment would be effective.
Is it possible I’m giving terrible advice? Sure. But that’s my two cents.
I’m not a psychologist, but I think that’s usually called clinical depression - there doesn’t seem to be a possibility that Dung Beetle’s daughter has that. But many forms of depression are milder, and while not as acute, they are unpleasant to live with and can be treated.
I’m not saying the girl in question is depressed, even mildly - we don’t know enough to diagnose her. I probably wouldn’t force her into therapy, unless her grades are surprisingly low or something, but it might not hurt to put out feelers to find out if she would like to go.
I would hazard a guess that she has a very different personality to her mother, who is perhaps more extroverted?
Apathy, or indifference to things that one once found interesting, or indifference in general, is actually one of the MOST common symptoms of Major Depressive Disorder.
Dung Beetle, is she a senior in high school, and does she have college plans? As in, has she applied to colleges yet? I think you should definitely be steering her towards college, so she can get out of the house and live life. She may very well “find herself” in college. Also I really agree that she needs to learn to drive to be fully functional and independent, or else you’re going to be taking care of her for a long time. I don’t know how someone like NinjaChick does it, being 21 and not driving. How do you get to school and work? Most people are not lucky enough to be close enough to everything to be able to walk.
In college, try to live on-campus. If you can’t, and after college, look for someplace with a decent public transport system, buy yourself a good pair of walking shoes and a bike. Problem solved. If, say, it’s absolutely pouring down rain, or in the single digits, or you’ve got a broken ankle, or whatever, you can quite reasonably ask a friend or coworker who does drive if they can give you a ride home or pick you up in the morning.
Does it mean some trade-offs? Yeah, sure. But it’s possible just about anywhere that’s not some rural area, and it’s in fact much easier in a lot of places. (Things I don’t need to worry about: maintenance, insurance, car payments, gas, parking, traffic. Things I do need to worry about: do I have exact change for the bus and my bike gloves?)
Depends on where she lives/wants to live. I’m older than NinjaChick & I don’t have a license. Never needed one. Now if I lived someplace out in the suburbs or with no public transportation, then yeah a car would be necessary.
But she wouldn’t have a car in college anyway, would she? I know one person who owned one, and that was only because she was in a co-op program that required her to travel to outlying communities. Instead of buying a car that straps her into making payments and buying gas and paying for parking (which was over $1000 per two semesters at most lots at my university, and they were needed by commuters), she could go to a city university.
I agree that getting her license is important - the more you wait, the more the anticipation and fear builds up.
Milder depression can still be clinical depression. I think the most common yardstick is whether it’s persisted for longer than two weeks.
And as stated, apathy or near-total lack of interest in life or in anything is actually one of the scary red-flag symptoms of major depression. Also keep in mind that “appearing sad” may or may not be a part of a particular person’s symptoms (hell, symptoms can vary from episode to episode within the same person). Not to be crass, but how often do you hear of people who say “I had no idea he was depressed,” after someone kills himself? Some people hide it well; some people actually don’t feel “sad,” as such. I had an episode some years back where my most prominent symptom was a severe aversion to sunlight. I did not “feel sad,” but I definitely knew I was depressed.
Depression can range anywhere from dysthymia (which was described to me as having a lower “baseline” mood than average) to major depressive disorder (which can itself manifest as constant weepiness, apathy and listlessness, suicide attempts, all of those, none of those, or a whole lot of other things in between). Symptoms are wide and varied and may manifest differently from person to person or even day-to-day. If you’re worried enough to ask a bunch of internet strangers, I submit that that in itself is enough cause to ask a guy with specialized medical training what he thinks. Or two or three of them, to see if there’s a consensus.
You guys seem to be calling introversion and lack of particular interest in standard activities depression.
Without other symptoms, I just can’t see it. It seems like “Hey, she’s not the way you don’t want her to be, she’s broken! She really is exactly how you want her to be, you just need to fix her!”
Yeah, well, news flash: Some of us get annoyed by other people, and prefer to be alone.