Er… “my intelligence” should have read “my memory.”
No, december, the weapons are not likely to “turn up any day”. But Fearless Misleader has lowered the bar, once again. Now we are seeking a “weapons program”, and that is a definition that allows for much more generosity in interpretation. Things don’t have to actually exist, any conjecture, any scientific paper that discusses even the possibility will be held to be sufficient.
President Rove has it right, he has refined his opinion of us to a very fine point, and he is probably right. Americans don’t want to believe that we are being led by a cynical cabal of jackals, mere facts will not sway them.
And no, Fearless Misleader is not as souless as Nixon, nor as ignorant as Reagan.
“Not as deep as a well, nor as wide as a church door, but 'tis enough, it will suffice.”
Lord have mercy on my beloved country, for I fear we are going to get exactly what we deserve. Four more years.
That wasn’t my opinion. As I interpret the article, that’s the opinion of several leading Democrats, including perhaps Senators John Kerry of Massachusetts, John Edwards of North Carolina and Joseph I. Lieberman of Connecticut,and Representative Richard A. Gephardt. I don’t know whether WMDs will turn up or not. Time will tell. However, I can understand why Democratic politicians might not want to bet their entire career on a prediction that the WMDs won’t ever turn up. Would you?
elucidator:
The traditional celebration music for Democrats is Happy Days are Here Again. I haven’t heard it used in recent Democratic elections though.
Loved your efforts to use “between Iraq and a hard place.” That one would leave Bush scratching his head. He pronounces it “I-rack.”
Back to the name thing, has anyone suggested “Sham-Scam”?
Sounds like Bosnia all over again.
Except, of course, that it isn’t, and you’re lying if you say otherwise. The African uranium take WAS A LIE. A proven lie at this point. There is absolutely no doubt that it was a complete fabrication; it’s a proven fact.
It’s simply not debatable. The Bush administration lied about that; there’s just no question about it. The entire Niger uranium story was hokum. Anyone who says otherwise is a liar, and is also pretty stupid to try to get away with a lie that’s been admitted to by essentially everyone. The number of cites and references provided on the board should be sufficient; I assume you aren’t dumb enough to deny it.
Your rather pathetic “Yeah! Well, uh, you were wrong about there being too few troops, so you must be wrong about this!” line is obviouslt illogical (it’s a non sequitur and a straw man) and rather blatantly a sad personal attack taken out of sheer desperation. You aren’t that stupid; you know it’s just a bullshit attempt at distraction.
You simply can’t explain away the uranium lies. I have a feeling they won’t be the only lies to come out of this fiasco, but the FACT is now clear - the uranium story was a lie.
Well, december, to join you in cooly detached analysis, I see Kerry as having the advantage in that regard. He voted for the war resolution (“Tonkin II”) so he can’t be faulted there. And if it turns out like it looks, somewhere between boondoggle and debacle, he can say “I believed my Commander in Chief, and was sorely misled.” With heavy heart, of course.
As for macho credentials, well…while GeeDubya was valiantly defending the skies above Amarillo from Viet Cong aircraft, Sen. Kerry was up to his eyeballs in The Shit. He probably laughed his ass off watching Fearless Misleader’s Gloat on the Boat. Thats worth a lot of points to men who know a Rear Echelon Motherfucker when they see one. And men like me, whom they taught that words like courage and honor have meaning.
I have grown somewhat suspicioius of Mr. Kerry of late. But I remember when he founded the Viet Nam Veterans Against the War. They did more to turn this nation away from that shitstorm than any of us did. When they threw thier medals back on the Capital steps, you could feel the political earth move.
At what point in time, do you think, will the number of soldiers lost to “nation-building” exceed the number lost in actual combat? September? Sooner?
I sincerly loathe the men who have made such a ghoulish speculation relevant. As God is my witness, I will never forgive them.
The problem is that most of them fell right into lockstep behind the invasion from the beginning so as not to have a “patriotism” issue dogging them in their next elections. The democrats have acted like a bunch of dickless weenies from the get-go.
When the Manson murders went down, Charlie told Tex to pass the knife around so as to make sure that everyone “did something.” This is essentially what Shrub did with the dems in congress. He made sure that they got bloody too so that they coulldn’t burn him later without burning themselves.
One dem candidate who wouldn’t take the knife was Howard Dean. That’s one of the things that can help him a lot next year. He was of the only dems who had the balls to call bullshit on the Bushies before the invasion. He can credibly use it as a campaign issue while the rest of those nutless bastards are stuck with their initial support for the invasion.
’lucy, you have a point about Kerry. He can’t be touched on the patriotism thing, and he can lament his “misplaced trust in our leadership” etc. Of all the Dems, he has the best chance to have it both ways (supported the war but is now outraged at Shrub’s deception). He would also have some genuine credibilty with the military, which is something that most Dems (and most Reps, for that matter) lack.
I dunno how much help military cred really helps. Democratic Georgia Senator Max Cleland had about as much military cred as a human being can have and still be alive, but he got beat by dickless Repub weenie Saxby Chambliss anyway.
Hell, do Americans give a flying fuck about military cred? Doesn’t look like it to me.
Jeez, Dio when it comes to cynicism, you are outdone by this aging hippie!
If it totally turns to shit, and it would have to be total… They only have to stand there and mournfully lament how they were duped, as were we all, by the cunning and chicanery of Elmer Fudd. Or, more to the point, by his Greasy Eminence, President Rove. Of course They Supported the President! Of course They Supported Our Troops! But they were led astray, gulled by the gravitas and charisma of Colin Powell…
Of course its horseshit. I know it, you know it. I dont vote Democrat because I am one, I vote to the leftiest candidate I can reasonably support. I will vote against Bush because I truly dread what may happen if he gets another four years to fuck up with. God help us, the little twit thinks he’s a Leader of Men!
If I have to, I’ll even vote for Liebowitz! I only hope they have a bucket of sawdust handy, like when they served tuna burgers in the cafeteria.
Rickjay:
No. It’s still bullshit. That bad report doesn’t bear on whether it was accepted and reported in good faith.
Evil, no, not that many do. But this is a nation very evenly split, which is why you see the Pubbies trying to pander to every possible minority, hoping to weaken the Dems grip.
Whats Karl Roves nightmare? A sexy, charismatic candidate from the Loony Right. A fundamentalist, pro-life, anti-gay, etc. who combines the savvy of Bill Clinton and the poltics of Pat Buchanan. If such arises and splits off even 5 percent of Bush’s support, he’ll be scraping his boots on his porch in Crawford come Janurary 05!
As Rumsfeld said:
“The statement I made is sound as a rock … [laughter] … I didn’t say Iraq!”
I wonder what that statement was in regard to?
Scylla speaks! Again, no support for a bald statement, but what can you expect. After all, what support is possible?
But its the “Harken” debate all over again, isn’t it? Valiantly you defend his honor, and pound your case relentlessly and yes! Yes! I do confess it! It is entirely possible that he was a dupe, and not a conspirator! Whatever mean comfort you can find in that, that we are led by a man who can be gulled by the lamest crock o’ shit since Ponzi…well, you are welcome to it. Frankly, I would rather be led by a scoundrel than a fool. Of course, I am, to some minor degree, a scoundrel.
And you, sir?
elucidator:
What support is needed for a logically supporting statement. Indeed, you seem to agree with the logic and are at least willing to admit that the falsity of the report has no bearing on whether or not it was accepted in good faith.
I’ll tell you what I think about this report. I think this report was precisely what the administration was looking for, and they didn’t look a gift horse in the mouth, but used it for what it was worth, and those inclined to be skeptical had reason to keep their mouths shut. A mistake was made, and almost assuredly the mistake was made because the report said what they wanted it to say and there was little payola in trying to contradict it.
Seeing as Kurds were gassed, and Clinton lobbed Tomahawks at Saddam’s WMD sites, and the links to terror seem ridiculously clear, and the humanitarian atrocities were as bad as they say, I’m not inclined to take this one incident out of proportion and pretend that it is the entire picture.
I’ll give you another free-thought. If I was Bush, or a Pubby leader, I’d be arguing not to report any WMD cites or evidence piecemeal. I’d try to gather together a pretty comprehensive listing before I showed anything rather than let my evidence be examined piecemeal or make false cries of “we found it!” and have them turn out false. I’d want to be sure of what I had before I said anything.
Starting from that frame of reference, if I was to observe what is happening now in the political climate where my opponents were really jumping on the “where are the WMDs” bandwagon. I’d be even more inclined to keep my mouth shut.
It seems to me that Bush’s opponents are really commtting themselves to this “There are no WMDs, the administration lied” position.
This may turn out to be a big mistake if Bush is finding what he is looking for and building a trump card rather than playing his hand piecmeal.
If I was Bush, and I was finding what I was looking for, I’d be very quiet about it right now and let my opponents commit themselves.
Quite right. Perhaps you could take a page out of the Chicago Democrat playbook, and vote early and often. Still, even if you started voting today, on the hour, President Bush will be re-elected.
Not much you can do about that. 
Well, that’s not what Bush is doing. From what I understand, he’s delcaring that a couple of trailers from Iraq’s WMD PROGRAM have been found.
Then again, the WMD program was presented as being the big reason for going to war with Oceania in the first place. Or something like that.
So, “mistakes were made”. Sounds rather familiar.
Are we to believe that that cunning rascal, Fearless Misleader, has the trump card up his sleeve, and is just waiting for the right moment to spring his trap?
No, clearly they didn’t look this “gift horse” in the mouth. There is some question whether they even ascertained whether it was even a horse! I mean, damn! Scylla, this was purely an Inspector Clouseau forgery!
As for “playing his hand piecemeal”, no, sorry, that dog won’t hunt, being dead, and all. Just last week, in Poland, he tried to claim that those rust-bucket piles of tubes and wheels were the Big Kahuna, the Smoking Gun.
Come now, you and I have argued too much for you to try to claim a naivete that would embarrass Rebecca of Donnybrook Farm.
“Truth is mighty, and will prevail. There is nothing wrong with that, except that it ain’t so.”
- Mark Twain