I keep wishing I could find a way to make “between Iraq and a hard place” work. But I can’t.
“Between Iraq and a hard place”? Isn’t that the name of the next Bond movie?
Lord Ashtar, here’s Waxman’s site, with his letters to Rice on the issue. From what I’ve seen, they’re well documented with references to reputable sources:
http://www.house.gov/reform/min/inves_admin/admin_nuclear_evidence.htm
This is, of course, aside from all the other stuff Bush did, like the insider trading.
Not even close. The allegations against Bush are bullshit.
To elaborate, it’s bullshit. Total bullshit. This is basically just another where are the WMDs thread.
Like Harkens it is bullshit, like Harvard it is bullshit, like the Afghani quagmire being another Vietnam it is bullshit, like the 100,000 U.S. Soldiers were going to die in Iraq was bullshit, like stealing Florida was bullshit, like the “we don’t have enough soldiers in Iraq” was bullshit, like destabilizing the region was bullshit, like millions of deaths in Baghdad was bullshit, like the robbing of all the antiquities was bullshit.
It’s just another round of bullshit from the Enemies of Bush trying to create a scandal where none exists.
It is particularly stupid Bullshit because Clinton was sending Tomahawk missiles out because of the nonexistant WMDs, and Iraq’s weapons programs have been an issue in global politics for some time.
What we have here is a window between the end of the war and the time The WMDs are found for the Enemies of Bush to harp on them just like they harped on everything else.
Like Chicken Little and the Boy that Cried Wolf, it gets less credible with each iteration, and, the ironic thing is that like Chicken Little, if the sky ever does fall, nobody’s going to believe anymore, effectively making Bush scandal proof.
Ah, the unshakeable confidence combined with blind adherence to party dogma that defines the true ideologue. You know, don’t you, that the White House is looking for someone to replace Ari Fleischer? Need a job?
I’ll keep that in mind. Sadly for you the Chicken Little position is already filled.
Perhaps I oughtn’t to be disappointed in you, Scylla, but I am. I thought you had some integrity. Perhaps I was misled by your stated admiration for Goldwater, which, as you know, I share.
It all rather sounds like the defenders of Nixon. Even when it became abundantly clear, they never gave up. Never.
The premise for the invasion of Iraq was false. The most generous case that can be made, at least with a straight face, is that Fearless Misleader did not know. Even Consiglieri Rice has admitted this laughable bit of crapola, the Great Niger Uranium Sale, was a forgery. Evidently, the boys over in CIA are being encouraged to fall on thier swords.
We have sent our soldiers to fight for a lie. I don’t know which is worse, to ask them to die for an ignoble cause, or to ask them to kill for it. If Colin Powell had even a shred of the integrity he is credited with, he would resign. How he manages to shave without a mirror is a neat trick. As I mentioned, I find the silence of Mr. McCain equally disheartening.
You loudly declaim that all of this is bullshit, merely the connivance and treachery of lesser men trying to bring down a noble leader. And yet, in all this bluster, you offer not so much as a scrap of argument. Are we to take it on faith, a faith that surpasseth all understanding?
Lets just focus on one example: the Niger Uranium scandal. You will recall, I brought this up a long time ago, to the withering scorn of the Usual Suspects. I put it to you, sir, that time has shown me right, and you wrong.
I defy you to present a reasonable argument to believe otherwise. With, to quote the Master, “the calm confidence of a Methodist with four aces.”
I thought we already called it Watergate?
I fail to see how this was a “politically expediant war”. However:
Historically, Presidential scandals have involved actions taken for either political gain, financial gain, or sexual mis-adventure.
Few people are going to get all that excited about sleight-of-hand that was done in order to remove a terrorist supporting, mass murdering demagogue from power. Even if the major players in this are somehow proven to be guilty (a big if) this arcane bit of information about Nigerian paperwork is not going to catch the attention of the populace.
In the last opinion poll I saw Bush had a 70% approval rating. Bush opponents will have to come up with something more attention getting than this or else he will easily win the next election. There are only 17 months left.
Post-war approval ratings don’t mean dick. Ask daddy Bush.
Sort of a vast, left-wing conspiracy, eh?
Wow - thanks for the link, Dewey. Even with my political bent, I had never heard that Laura Bush had run a stop sign and killed someone. The guilt over her negligence must be a heavy burden. I feel sorry for her and for the family of the person she killed.
Ah, another wonderful little Scylla-gism. Say that it was Bullshit enough, and maybe it will become true. No, Bush never said there were scads of scuds and dumpsters of WMDs. He never cited falsified documents or intelligence of dubious credibility. The GD liberals made it all up on another witch hunt of a poor defenseless compassionate conservative.
You are right. Somebody is losing credibility.
The W used to be for “women.” Then it was for WMD’s. Now the W seems to be for “Where are they, George?”
I’ve always thought the W was for dumb. Good thing he surrounded himself with all those smart people so they would keep him from making a ghastly poor decision by helping him to interpret the information he was given. Phew.
Cite?
I’ve been thinking about this a great deal recently. Essentially, there are two options: either the Bush Administration lied or the intelligence was wrong. (Okay, I suppose it’s probably more of a spectrum – for example, into which camp does cherrypicking the intelligence for a causus belli fall? But bear with me).
If I were a Republican, I’d be hoping and praying that the reality is closer to Bush Lied (no, that’s not a typo). Hell, I think everyone should hope that the truth is that the Admin just flat-out lied to us.
I mean, think about it. If the Admin lied, and the nation gets outraged (as it should), then we boot the Admins and start from scratch. Not too difficult: we do it every 4-8 years. If, however, it turns out that the intelligence was wrong, and the Admin is morally blameless… well, fuck. Our intelligence is no good? How safe does that make me feel? :eek: I mean, I’d like to think that we’re really paying attention in the spy game, trying our damndest to prevent 9-11 Redux. If, however, our intelligence is worthless… well, shit, am I the only one scared by that?
Maybe my intelligence is playing tricks on me, but specifically with regard to the uranium I believe high-ranking officials in the CIA, Pentagon, and State Department knew that the Nigerien documents were forged before Bush’s speech. The only way to exculpate Bush right now is to claim that right at the very top there was an abrupt breakdown of communcation.
How about “Democrats sweep whitehouse, both houses in 2004”
Hmmmm. Needs a soundtrack. “Ode to Joy”? “Hallelujah Chorus”? Ren and Stimpy’s “Happy, Happy, Joy, Joy”?
Given that Bush was the man right at the top this is sort of believable. Not that I don’t think he should be impeached anyway. If there’s a breakdown in communication right at the top, then it’s clearly his fault, and he should be held accountable even if it turns out that he’s really too stupid to have done it any differently.
I’m a Republican and I hope that the Democrats keep making a fuss about this issue. This article from today’s NY Times explains why.
Two points:
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I’m with those who think this issue will backfire, for the reasons given in the article. Also, it plays into a Democratic weakness: the public doesn’t trust them as much to protect the country militarily.
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On another level, this article from the Times makes the Democrats out to be insincere. It says that their interest in WMDs is about the political aspects. That’s a losing message. Bush says his interest in WMDs is about protecting the public. That’s a winning message. It’s what the public wants to hear.