Visitation orders are pains in the butt. They are expensive to get because they involve hiring an attorney. Then the custodial parent usually pisses all over them anyway if they want. If you don’t want to cooperate, you won’t - visitation order or not. The visitation order allows him to haul your ass back into court, with legal fees, over and over again so a judge can tell you to grow up.
Why does he need to parent you? He was interested in parenting his daughter. It doesn’t sound like he was ever really well enough off to pursue a visitation order. Moreover, it doesn’t sound like he enjoys conflict.
I’ll tell you the story of my dad’s parents from a gazillion years ago (1948). It was WWII, my bio gf was stationed in the Twin Cities where he knocked up my fifteen year old grandmother. They got married. After the war, she moved with him back home, to Ohio where they all lived with his parents. Apparently my father was - by everyone’s account - a well loved, doted on child - he was the star of his paternal and maternal grandparent’s worlds. But my grandmother was seventeen, away from home, living with a woman my bio gf decribes as “overbearing” - so she took my Dad, got on a train, and went home. All of this is understandable. What isn’t is what happened next.
He spent four years writing letters and sending gifts as well as sending money. He never heard anything back. Not a note, not a photo, not a crayon drawing.
My grandmother spent the next 38 years telling my father that his bio dad just left them. Not a word about Ohio.
When my dad was six, my grandmother remarried. My grandfather, a loving wonderful man who accepted my dad as his own, adopted my dad. My grandmother pointed out to my father later that my fathers bio father never fought the adoptions - which he would have had he loved him.
Back in Ohio, adoption papers arrived for my bio gf to sign away his paternal rights, along with the only note he received from my grandmother since she walked out. He was aware he wasn’t going to be able to have a relationship with my dad - geography and my grandmother made that impossible. So he did what he felt was best and dropped contact.
My dad didn’t know his side of the story until he showed up when my Dad was 40. My bio grandfather spent the years of the Vietnam war scanning casualty lists (my dad married and had a baby - me - to get an exemption).
I don’t think my Dad ever really forgave her. I know her grandchildren never did.
My BIL is divorced from his wife, his son is now 11, they have been separated for 10 years.
The Ex-Wife does a lot of things just to spite him (from our point of view). He has limited money.
Yes he COULD fight for more visitation, or full custody, the advice we were given was that it would be expensive - in the likes of $5,000 - $8,000, money that would go a very long way towards paying for son’s education, or to help him later in life, money that would be wasted on laywers fees that my BIL didn’t have and his chances of success were limited. On top of that, we felt that dragging her to court was going to create a great deal of antagonism, and make matters worse.
As well as that, we were very concerned that if it was dragged to court, mum’s displeasure would be taken out on son - making his home life difficult. This would not neccessarily have been amerliorated even had BIL won his case.
At the end of the day, the risk / reward payoff just didn’t seem to be there to take up a court case. You may well say that he didn’t care - my rejoinder would be that he kept the peace only because he cares.
To Blackberry - in a reasonable world, he wouldn’t have to drag you to court, he wouldn’t have to assert his rights in this matter - why should he have to fight with you to get to see his daughter?
Why should he have to face a highly stressful and adversarial situation just to get what any right thinking person would agree is his due as a father? You were putting him into a no-win situation - it is no great surprise to me that he (in your eyes) didn’t win.
A visitation order wouldn’t get him anything that I am actually withholding, but if HE believes I’m making it difficult for him to see her, that’s an obvious recourse for him. My point is that no matter WHAT anyone here thinks I might be doing to stand in his way of seeing her, he could have gone through the courts, but never even tried that. That’s why it’s silly for people to act like, poor him, he’s done everything he could possibly do but big mean powerful me has thwarted his gallant efforts. It’s not the case at all. We’ve both done things wrong, we both have our own personal limitations, but we both love our daughter.
You don’t HAVE to hire an attorney. I’m sure it helps, but it’s not like I would oppose his visitation request anyway, so it really wouldn’t be necessary. I know some people claim it’s almost necessary to have an attorney for child support too, but neither of us ever has.
It’s basically the same as me filing for child support without an attorney. It took some figuring out to fill out the forms and figure out where to submit them and all that, and I probably could have gotten MORE if I did have an attorney, but doing it myself was better than nothing and it would have been unreasonable for me to just throw my hands up and say I can’t even try. There was no real chance of a judge ordering me $0 child support and there’s no real chance of a judge ordering him no visitation.
Obviously a visitation order isn’t the answer to every noncustodial parents’ problems and they can only go so far. But if it was you wanting to see your child, wouldn’t you at least TRY that, before you just gave up and had almost nothing to do with your child? I sure would.
That’s a sad story, but not really relevant to this situation, since I have not prevented him from being a father to our daughter.
My point is not that all fathers can find a way to see their children and it’s their own fault if they don’t. I haven’t and wouldn’t make him go to court. I’m just saying that that’s something he COULD do if HE feels that I’m being unreasonable. That he hasn’t taken that basic step shows that he hasn’t done all that he could, or anywhere near all that he could.
Of course, your actions that ensured that she would spend most of her time with your family have nothing to do with that outcome… Seriously, I think you’re in some denial about your role here.
You’ve made sure of that, haven’t you?
I don’t want to get angry with you, but you really do keep coming up with reasons why he’s inadequate, don’t you?
Let me tell you something about my family. My mother and my father’s mother HATED each other. Loathing like the burning of 10 million suns. If murder had been declared legal one or both would have been dead by sundown. Nonetheless, because of the way those two women conducted themselves I wasn’t even aware of their mutual dislike until I was 15. They NEVER said a bad word about the other in front of any of us kids. They were excruciately polite to each other when together in front of the kids. Mom NEVER got between us and grandma, INSISTING we call and speak to her regularly, driving us to see her, encouraging us to write. Mom had to really work at it - she was, after all, turning her kids over to a woman she loathed and hated for an afternoon on a regular basis for a few years - but she did it anyway and she did it with a smile because she knew it was best for the kids to have a relationship with their grandmother. A grandmother, not a parent!
So, what’s best for your child is to make sure she keeps in contact with her father. That means YOU may have to insist she phone him on a regular basis, even if that means you have to dial the phone the first few times. YOU take her to see dad, even if it’s not perfectly convenient for you. If necessary, YOU take BOTH of them to someplace like the zoo or the movies if dad doesn’t have transportation and you do it with a smile.
When do you stop making the effort? When your daughter moves out of the house as an adult. Can I point out that if you teach her NOW that she needs to keep in contact with a parent she doesn’t live with YOU will benefit later when she no longer lives with you… because she will be far more likely to maintain contact with YOU.
And if dad is too busy/stressed/ill to actually see her you STILL insist she call regularly to let him know she still cares about him because when life is that crappy is when you need to hear from your loved ones and friends the most. Doesn’t matter if she can help him or not - he needs to hear from her, just to let him know she’s still out there and that someone cares about him.
You say it’s important for him and her to stay in contact but that’s not how you have been ACTING. Your words are not nearly as important as your actions. You need to teach her that you don’t stop caring about family simply because they aren’t perfect.
Seems to me that you have an Invisible Yardstick and he doesn’t measure up. Well, too bad - you created a child together, that means your lives are entangled. I don’t think the problem is that he doesn’t think, I think the problem is he doesn’t think like you do. You seem to want it all your own way. You might have moderated that trait over the years, but it’s still there. That’s not how you have a relationship or a marriage, and when your daughter hits her teens it will be a problem with origins in YOU.
Yes, you did make his life difficult. You didn’t INTEND to make his life difficult, you didn’t sit down one day and decide to do that, but from your own words you were a controlling bitch. Despite that the first five years or so of your daughter’s life he put up with your crap and visited, called, paid child support and put up with the nutty harpy who had tantrums because he didn’t dress his daughter exactly the way the harpy wanted.
Hon, YOU are the one more at fault here. Don’t point the finger at him and say “but he was immature, too!” Yes, I’m sure he was. That doesn’t change the fact that you have a major role in producing the current situation where he isn’t as involved as you’d like.
This about it - when he WAS involved you weren’t happy, he wasn’t doing things right, he couldn’t even dress the kid to your standards. Now that he’s not interferring with you any longer he’s STILL the bad guy because now he’s not around anymore. You set up a situation where it was impossible for him to “win”. He was always going to come up inadquate in some way. You stacked the deck against him. That was NOT a nice thing to do.
However, you are coming to realize that you did some bad things in the past, made some poor decisions, and did not always act well. That is good. Now you must do the hard thing and change how you act. That means that YES, there are times you will need to hold your nose and do something distasteful to you because that is what is best for your DAUGHTER. That can mean inconvenience, associating with people you don’t particularly like, and putting up with some things you don’t agree with and doing with with a frakkin’ SMILE.
My sister-in-law married a badass - the running joke is the best five years of their marriage was the time he spent in jail. He drinks, he drugs, he’s lazy and shiftless and gets into fights. He’s uneducated and a raging bigot and sexist. Yet my mother-in-law - who does not like him one bit - invites him to her home, feeds him dinner, speaks politely to him, and grits her teeth a lot while forcing a smile. Why? Because it’s the right thing to do - he is her daughter’s husband. For her daughter’s sake she tolerates him, even makes him feel welcome when coming to her home. While my father-in-law was still alive he’d do the same even if he despied his son-in-law with a passion. Why? Because the man was his stepdaughter’s husband and he tolerated the man for her sake.
My mother, grandmother, mother-in-law, and father-in-law have all done the right thing for people they held in far greater contempt that you hold your daughter’s father. It is time for you to finish growing up and do the right thing even when it hurts a litte. A truly ethical person does the right thing not only when it’s convenient but also when it’s difficult.
For your daughter’s sake you need to help BOTH of them mend their relationship. You also need to try knowing that, in fact, you might not succeed. You can’t force them. But you can do a lot to eliminate every barrier that stands between them. They’ll still have to take those final few steps but you can clear the way.
Think about this - have you in any way, unintentionally, telegraphed to her that she shouldn’t call or visit dad? Tone of voice? Body language? I have no way to know if you did or not, but you do. Remember, it’s not just words, it’s actions that count.
Have you explained to your DAUGHTER that calling dad reguarly is something she should do even if he doesn’t reciprocate reliably? You set people up to be disappointed by saying things like “I’m sure she’ll follow”. You can’t promise like that on behaf of another person, and particularly a child is never going to be reliable like that. It takes years to teach a child to reciprocate phone calls like that on their own.
You don’t have to “explain to him in different ways” - I’m sure he gets it. I’m also sure he’s tired and frustrated.
The problem is, you telling him his daughter wants to talk to him doesn’t cut it - his daughter has to call him. Actions over words again. You think she’s feeling rejected? Has it occurred to you that her father is feeling rejected, too? You seem to have great difficulty walking in his shoes.
He is your daughter’s father. It’s time to teach her that you take care of family, and that means she calls him on a regular basis for her father’s sake. That is not something you do, it is something your daughter does.
Part of the problem is that both you and your daughter are displaying some very unflattering selfish tendencies here.
Given that this relationship is fractured a once a week call might be too much to start. Try once a month, then after a year every two weeks. If they start calling each other spontaneously more often then you know you’ve succeeded.
I don’t know WHY he had so little contact for 5 years. My father’s father disappeared for twenty years, his kids thought he was dead, then he shows up again. Does that mean he’s a bad father? No. I don’t know why he disappeared (it’s a Family Secret that the elder generation took to their graves) but his prior and subsequent actions indicate he was a good father. So presumably something prevented him from seeing his kids and/or communicating all those years. Until I know what that was (and I will never know, at this point) I can’t judge him.
You, however, seem very judgemental. Of course, you know more than we do about the situation. But simply saying “minimal contact with kid for 5 years” does not lead everyone to conclude “bad parent”. In fact, given just that information my first thought is to wonder if the other parent was throwing obstacles in the way of visitation, which, frankly, I consider very bad parenting. Nonetheless, I am trying to reserve judgement of the two of you as much as possible and stick to the facts as they are presented here.
I think you don’t understand what a “deadbeat” parent is. Does her father pay child support? Then he’s not a deadbeat. Does he visit her at all? Then he’s not a deadbeat. Does he call her at all? Then he’s not a deadbeat. He might have a great many other flaws, but he is NOT a deadbeat based on your own words.
I can’t help but wonder if you have impossibly high standards for him.
You say your parents were divorced - I’m assuming you lived with your mother. Is it possible some lingering resentment to YOUR father is poisoning the well here? Think about that as a possibility.
My parents never divorced, but let me tell you, although I never questioned they loved me they weren’t perfect. NO ONE is a perfect parent. All parents make mistakes, sometimes real doozies. That doesn’t make them bad parents.
Actually… given some situations I’ve seen it might, in fact, be an excuse. Custodial parents who assault non-custodial parents who show up to a vists, for example - throwing objects and punches at them. Always having a convenient “emergency” that cancels visitation. Unexpected and unnotified trips out of town that cancels visitation. Oh, lord - I used to work at a clinic with all sorts of disfunctional people. I’ve seen people jailed over attempts to prevent visitation because of the way they went about it. If every time someone showed up to visit their child they risked a physical assault yes, I think that’s an excuse to visit much less often.
I do not, however, think you are on that level of difficult to get along with.
You are, however, assuming everyone thinks exactly like you do. We don’t. We also have different life experiences to draw on when judging situations like this.
Speaking of life situations - I know a Navy sailor stationed on submarines. He sees his kid once a year, if he’s lucky, because, you know, he really does have something else going on in his life that interferes with seeing his kid. He can’t even call her when he’s on patrol, and he’s on patrol more often than not. Yes, I’d call that a valid excuse, too.
So, until I know what’s really going on in your ex’s life no, I can’t make that judgement. Since he doesn’t have a voice here I’m going to have to reserve judgement on whether or not he’s a bad father and whether or not he’s got a valid excuse.
You claim you are willing to let him visit any time. In fact, you want him to visit MORE - so tell me what would legal visitation give him that he doesn’t have already? Why is going before a judge so flipping important TO YOU? You seem quite fixated on this. (Equally clearly, he is NOT fixated on it and in fact it doesn’t seem to be important to him)
If you two can work something out why the hell would he need to go before a judge?
Has it occured to you that, with a disabled wife, and with him having epilepsy, that a judge might, in fact, restrict his visitation far more than you would? There’s still a lot of prejudice towards epileptics, a judge might forbid him to ever drive a car with his daughter in it and provide the excuse of “for her safety”. Wow, that would certainly make visitation more difficult, wouldn’t it? Seems to me that going in front of a judge poses a RISK for this man, not a gain. Why the hell would he risk winding up in a worse situation than he’s already in? Because YOU are fixated on a legal document he sees no use for?
Perhaps I do not understand why legal visitation is so important - so enlighten me. What would it give him that he doesn’t already have?
I think you’re judging him as unreasonable because he doesn’t think as you do, and doesn’t come to the same conclusions you do. Unless, as I said, there’s something that legal visitation would give him that you wouldn’t. How does going in front of a judge - incidently, spending time and money he might not have - to get a piece of paper of that nature in any way indicate that he is reasonable or a good parent? Plenty of non-custodial parents have legal visitation and don’t exercise it. The words on paper don’t prove what sort of parent he is, his ACTIONS do. Does he call? Does he visit? Does he pay child support? Then he’s doing at least the minimum. It seems you are always wanting MORE from this man - more calls, more visits… why is that?
Not to get too crude, but did your absent father call and visit YOU enough? Are you judging your daughter’s father based on dissatisfactions with your own father?
Then why does he need a legal visitation order?
Don’t be a helicopter parent. Don’t ASK your daughter - TELL your daughter that it is her turn to call dad and make plans to get together. Then hand her the phone. Contact with her father is not optional.
So… when you “just moved anyway” why didn’t YOU move closer to HIM? If it was truly important to you that your daughter maintain contact with her father, if you truly worked to eliminate barriers between them, why wouldn’t YOU move closer when you’re already moving anyway?
So… you don’t think he’s CAPABLE of taking care of another human being? Isn’t he taking care of a disabled wife? Good lord - what sort of standards do you have?
Holy crap! He doesn’t have family support? You mean he’s been dealing with a too-early-in-ife child, epilepsy, child support, lack of transportation, and Og knows what else ALL ON HIS OWN? Truly on his own with no fall-back support?
Woman, YOU are being unreasonable. YOU have help - HE does not. Sounds like you have a LOT more resources than he does.
You want this man to go to court, risk winding up with an even WORSE situation than he’s in, to ask for something he already has, and possibly spend thousands of dollars (which could go to child support or taking care of his wife with a crippling and ultimately terminal disease) in order to demonstrate to YOU that he loves his daughter?
Excuse me - WTF is wrong with you?
That is an incredibly selfish desire on your part.
Tell me - if he DID get such an order what new thing will you require of him in order to demonstrate his love TO YOU for his daughter?
Yes, you ARE interfering with this man. You are setting up unreasonable hurdles for him to jump. I’m beginning to think there is NOTHING this man could do that would make you view him as a good father. If he cured cancer you’d complain he spent too much time in the lab. If he brought about world peace, well, he was on the road too much. Seriously, you need to re-evaluate YOURSELF.
If you aren’t going to contest visitation, why the hell would he need a visitation order?
Nor did my grandmother. She just made it such a pain in the ass for my bio gf to have any ability to parent by moving her son out of state, refusing contact, and then saying “if he cared, he would have made the effort.” It sounds VERY similar to what you are doing and have done. And what you think you are doing isn’t going to make a damn bit of difference. If your daughter grows up to perceive that it was you that made this difficult, it doesn’t matter if you think you didn’t.
Not at all. Like I said, he used to spend a lot of time with her, and I was happy about it. What else could I have done when he was seeing her regularly?
Yes, I think she’s better off with me having custody, but I’m pretty sure the same could be said of most parents who have custody of their children. And no doubt, some of them are even right.
That is REALLY not my intent. I can see where it would seem that way, but it’s not. He’s not inadequate overall, and he’s a much better father than his own father or stepfather was to him, but he has some limitations that do concern me, and I don’t think I’m wrong for that. There HAVE been times I was wrong for how I handled my concerns, but I believe I’ve been reasonable with him for the last few years.
You really think I should insist that she call him? Hm…maybe you’re right. I wouldn’t have thought so, but then again I’m the one who people are always complaining that I never call them, when I’m always just thinking that if they want to talk to me, they’ll call me. I think I am getting my daughter to think the same way, even though I didn’t mean to.
Okay, but in all fairness, don’t you think there are certain things (besides really extreme bad things that go without saying) a parent could do that the other parent shouldn’t just accept as another way of doing things? He has never done anything terrible or shocking, and I know ALL parents have some examples of things the other parent does that they think are poor decisions, but I’m not sure where to draw the line. Like I said with spanking before. You think I should have just let him do it, even though I really believe it was harming her? I did try to talk to him about it reasonably, but he wasn’t interested. Let’s say for the sake of argument that there’s absolutely nothing I could say to him to get him to rethink that no matter how fair I was being.
Another example is one time when she was a toddler and I dropped her off and he was watching some really violent movie and thought nothing of leaving it on her her to see. If trying to talk to him about something like that fails, I don’t know the right thing to do.
I realize there are factors that could keep a well-meaning parent from being involved, that’s actually my point. We all know how SOME people like to rush to judgment on message boards (among other situations) seemingly just out of sport, and that’s what I was trying to prevent is people assuming he just doesn’t care, because that wouldn’t be useful. Apparently I went too far that way and made some people think I am the one all in the wrong here, which I know isn’t the case EITHER, so again, it’s not a useful response.
Yes, my situation with my dad definitely plays into it. I’m sure some of it is me projecting my own issues, but I really believe that some of it is experience that helps me to understand how my daughter feels. I’m just trying to sort out what is what, and that’s not easy.
It’s not important to me at all, I’m just saying that’s an option for him, and that I’m clearly not preventing him from seeing her, since I couldn’t do that even if I DID want to. That’s all. I guess I must not have been very clear about that since it seems that no one understood me, but that’s all I’m saying. By no means do I think it’s NECESSARY for him to pursue legal visitation.
I live in the same area I’ve always lived. I can’t uproot us and follow him around on the chance that he’ll start being involved in her life again. But I am willing to drive her to see him, so I think that’s reasonable.
I don’t know the situation with his wife. All I know is that a month or two ago he said she was just diagnosed with MS. I haven’t spoken to him since, so I don’t know any other details. But yes, I think he could keep her alive and all…but no, I would be very upset at the idea of him having full custody and making all the parenting decisions and I don’t think that means my standards are unreasonable.
I don’t think she’s a troll. Keep in mind there are people in this thread that’re on her side. So if she is a troll, she’s a spectacular one and she deserves our kudos.
I think you should explain to him exactly what you are willing to do to make it easier for him to visit.
Perhaps every time you call and order him to pay attention to his daughter, he reacts negatively to that. If you were controlling about her when she was a baby, what would make him think that you wouldn’t be controlling about her now, dictating every little detail of whatever visitation he gets? I’d back off too, if I were him. Nothing like trying to do the right thing by your kid and have her mom criticize you for it.
So he lives 45 minutes away and doesn’t have a car. Do you? Remember when he’d pick her up and bring her home, make the trip both ways? It’s your turn. Call him up, ask him if he wants to keep her for a weekend, then take her to him and go pick her up at the end of the weekend. Is he invited to her birthday parties, events, recitals, whatever? Then go get him or send a friend to pick him up, so he can be involved with those things. Help him, don’t just demand.
I think you have a good point. I also say it’s big of you to own up to the fact that you were controlling in the past, and aren’t denying that this may have played a role in why your ex is being so passive with your daughter now. Admitting our own faults is not easy to do. I don’t think your actions excuse him, though, and neither does having an ill wife or transportation problems. Not to get up on a soapbox or anything, but I think many responses in this thread reflect how low our expectations for fathers are. It seems as though he doesn’t think of your daughter as HIS daughter too. You probably contributed to him thinking this way (especially if he’s not as smart as you say he is), but ultimately his failure to understand that he should be acting like a parent is his responsibility.
That said, I suggest trying to facilitate visits as much as you can before giving up on the idea of him and your daughter having a relationship. If you can arrange to bring them together yourself, do it. Call him up and say “Hey, can we come on for dinner next weekend? I think Daughter needs to see you more”. The worse he can say is no, and then at least you know you’re doing the best you can to make things better.
Try to bury past resentments because they are causing you to lose sight of what is best for your child. You know him better than anyone else on this board. If you honestly want him to get closer to your daughter, don’t expect him to rise to that challenge without assistance from you. Because you’ll just become resentful. Just accept that getting the outcome you want will take some heavy lifting from you, at least initially.
Blackberry-
The first time I read your OP was almost immediately after you posted it. I had a very strong negative reaction, but I’ve held off on a response because I didn’t want to just go off on you. Now that I’ve opened your thread again I see that, fortunately, I don’t have to. Others have said pretty much what I have wanted to say from the beginning, and in a much nicer way than I would have, had I just let loose with what I was thinking.
There is one thing that I have wanted to say from the beginning that hasn’t been addressed yet. Please try to have an open mind and see if this might apply to you. The overall vibe that I’m getting from you is a person that is craving sympathy. A person that creates a situation in order to be able to tell everyone how much you’ve been wronged.
I won’t get into too much detail here, because others have more than adequately covered it, but (pay attention here) YOU CREATED THIS SITUATION!
Sure, you didn’t create the fact that he married someone with MS. You didn’t create the fact that he has epilepsy. You may or may not have something to do with the fact that he doesn’t have a car. These are certainly extenuating circumstances. But the fact that he doesn’t see his daughter as much as you claim you would like him to? That, my friend, is your creation. Take it from someone who’s been there. A person who wants their ex to be a part of their child’s life does not act the way you have. Even without the other extenuating circumstances, I can’t say I blame him one bit for backing off. “I’m smart, he’s not”??? What kind of an attitude do you call that?
Every time I look at your OP, it looks more and more like “Woe is me, please give me sympathy.” I’m sorry, but that’s just not flying here. Not for me.
One last point. Your daughter needs her father!!! I hope that from here on out you go to any length to encourage that to happen.
Broomstick, I just wanted to let you know that this post is going into my Favorites folder (which has a very small number of posts in it). I can’t really articulate why, but I find it helpful to know that something of such insight, compassion, passion, and wisdom exists.
Blackberry, I hope that you are able to find what she has said helpful as well. I wish you and your daughter and her dad all the best.
You know, it’s actually kind of interesting, when I was pregnant and when my daughter was a baby, everyone like the doctors and people at WIC just fell all OVER themselves to praise the hell out of him for being involved. And I know they were just trying to encourage him because a lot of fathers, particularly young black men, didn’t do what he did. Unfortunately though, it seemed to make him think he really was going above and beyond by driving me to doctor appointments and going with me to childbirth classes and stuff, and he started to think he wasn’t really obligated to do those things. I remember one time he was mad at me so he said he wasn’t going to take me to my doctor appointment as planned, like he was doing me some special favor by driving me to a prenatal checkup for our child. His attitude really changed.
I mean, I’m kind of surprised he DID at first feel obligated to take equal responsibility, considering he never met his own dad until after he was an adult, but eventually he started seeing it as much more optional. In hindsight I sure wish I would have handled it differently when all that started because I know I just made it worse, but I was 17 and pretty determined to cut off my nose to spite my face.
I am going to try that. I guess I’ve just felt like since I’ve been fair with him for the past few years, he should be able to see that, but really we haven’t had that much contact for the last few years anyway and changes I’ve made probably aren’t as apparent to him as I thought. I have been accused of expecting people to read minds… Hopefully it will help if I tell him directly.
I just wanted to reiterate what’s been said upthread:
You need to force your daughter to call her dad
Any 10 year old, even with a mom/dad who lived down the road would need to be forced to call/visit them. It starts about now, and continues for years - kids don’t want to be around their parents. Unless you have evidence that he’s abusing her in some way, you need to make it happen.
And, I would also encourage you to listen and think about what your family may be saying about dad in Kid’s presence. I have a close and loud family, and while we are always careful about ex-spouses and such around the kids, we might slip up. Or, your family may just think it’s okay to pile on the ex - it’s not. Make sure you demand that he be talked about respectfully by your family when Kid is around.
You sound quite a bit like I was when my daughter was little. Her father never made much effort and I figured if he wanted to be with her he’d call.
He never called.
My little girl is 20 now and I regret not making more effort. She blames me. I know she does. She’s too kind to say but I know, and even if she doesn’t blame me, she still suffered. You’re lucky though, because at least he DOES do some, and he does have good reason not to be there so much. I couldn’t read the whole thread because it turned over-the-top negative real fast for a simple advice thread. I hope you get this worked out for your daughter’s sake. Try to appreciate what he has done, and how hard it was early on, and what he’s got on his plate now. Can you drive her out to visit him since he doesn’t have a car? Maybe if you push a little harder and offer to go out of your way for them to spend time together? Or encourage him to call, don’t wait for him and his family to. Like I said, I waited and waited but my daughter’s paternal side didn’t put forth ANY effort until I contacted them a few years ago. Now they talk several times a week and she’s planning to visit them on her next vacation. Just always keep the lines of communication open and friendly with them. In a few more years your daughter will be driving age and can visit herself. If there’s a good relationship there she will be more likely to put forth that effort.
Well that sure seems strange to me, considering how easy it would have been for me to paint the situation in a different light if that’s what I had wanted to do. Instead, I tried to make it very clear that I also contributed to the situation and that he isn’t a bad guy.
Although, him hardly seeing our daughter does predate all of those things by years.
And I’m really not sure what you think I might have to do with him not having a car. Weird.
It’s a simple fact. Obviously, since you don’t know him, for all you know it could be untrue and I’m just being insulting, but all I can say is that I’m not. It’s not like I would say that to him, but when I’m trying to explain the situation, it is relevant.
You are not responsible for what he sees or doesn’t see. It is your responsibility ~ every day ~ to facilitate a relationship between your daughter and her dad. If she doesn’t “feel like it,” that has nothing to do with your responsibility; it’s still your responsibility. If he’s an asshole that day, that has nothing to do with your responsibility. If you have PMS, that has nothing to do with your responsibility.
I know of which I speak. My co-parenting relationship with my son’s dad has been very hard at times. Many days, say, he’d be 30 minutes late to pick him up and someone else would say to me, “Then you should be 30 minutes late, etc.” And I would have to say, “His behavior will not be the yardstick by which I measure my behavior.”
The goal is not to be a better parent than him, the goal is to be the best parent you can be for your kid. You have to decide what makes you the best parent you can be and do it. No excuses. Nothing is contingent on his behavior. Be the parent you would be if he weren’t around at all. Decide the right thing AND DO IT.