May I be the one to say, “WTF?” I am a Republican by voter registration, and have gay friends here, male and female (and a 'tweener or two). I am a Marine, politically involved, and I openly embrace (in a very manly way) gays. The “ten-percenters” in ANY group tend to make a bad name for the other 90%. Intelligent people understand that, and I see Tibs among the VERY intelligent folks. Sheesh, she was as all over thinksnow, as much as an avowed lesbian would be all over a male Marine (and statistically likely a Republican, not to presume, 'snow). Stereotypes are for folks dumb enough to believe in stereotypes. You are not dumb, 'homie.
First, Carina42, I think it’s brave of you to step out on a limb (particularly on this thread) and say that you’re not particularly comfortable discussing it. For that, I am sure no one will jump on your statement.
Part of the reason you may not feel comfortable discussing it is that it is closely tied to someone’s sex life. From your post, I’m not sure if you discuss this with your hetero friends. And this is exactly why this thread was started - so that you can ask things you may not be comfortable asking otherwise and can get an honest, non-defensive response.
I can not speak for all lesbians as far as objectifying the female body. It has not been my experience that this is the case. My guess is that, as a whole, women are not as turned on by images as many men are - this includes lesbians. I, personally, am not aroused by images as much as I would guess the average male is. All this is sort of sweeping but in my estimation, as a whole, not quite up to the level of the average guy. A few things should be noted:
- Not all men objectify the female body
- Not all women are offended by objectification
- There are certainly some lesbians who objectify the female body
Again, my response is…well, I’m hazarding a guess, I should say. The experiences of other people might indicate otherwise but since I’m responding, hell, I’ll give you my opinion based upon my experience. I would not, however, attribute it to hardwiring - that seems quite open to debate.
Thanks for the question.
Tibs.
Thank you, Tibs! While I certainly don’t mind discussing sexual issues, (Why, only yesterday, Deb & I were comparing the merits of Altoids over Viacreme* :D) for some reason I felt funny about asking that. I don’t mind being objectified at times. Maybe I just don’t want to know if my friends look at me in a bikini & think woo, she’s hot. Or not.
*Viacreme is a waste of money. Altoids last wayy longer, plus you get to keep the cute tin.
Thanks for the steer, UncleBill. What I meant to ask was: “To hear some from Gay-Rights activists groups tell it, Republicans are all mean-spirited, etc. Did I give off that vibe? I sure hope I didn’t.” It was a roundabout way of asking if she thought I was a polite and decent man.
Yeah, rasta I think it came out kinda harsh the first time. I been misunderstood enough here, and felt the ire of the offended, even though it was not meant. On your point, I’ll go back to the “Ten Percenters”. The vocal and extreme 10% in the Gay and Lesbian community may be ranting about the 10% in the Republican group (OK, maybe 20%) who DO have major issues with homosexuality. Some Republicans ARE “mean-spirited” in this way.
Sometimes I hear my students use the epithet “fag” when discussing a homosexual, or even when discussing someone they simply don’t like. How should I go about correcting this behavior? (I want them to use another word.)
Here’s one for ya’. My lesbian friends agreed with my observation, but they had no answer for it.
When I lived in Denver, I resided in a neighborhood with a large lesbian population – the area was home to lots of Subarus, rainbow flags flying from houses, several new age bookstores, and similar things that are unquestionably Sapphic. (is that a word?) It seems like the majority of Northwest Denver’s lesbian population, and the majority of lesbians I meet as a whole are … well, stocky. They’re built like lumberjacks. Are lesbians generally attracted to bigger grrls?
elmwood I know exactly the part of Denver you’re talking about! 
While I agree about the overall stockieness of the dyke population, I don’t know that it’s much different from the overall chubbiness of the US population. Perhaps just more accentuated by the less girly style of dressing?
Ever go to Ms C’s on East Colfax? Saturday nights you’ll find many of Denver’s finest in full dress, and let me tell you, there are some gorgeous women there!
Hello Tiburon - very nice thread !
Lesbianism and motherhood ain’t necessarily mutually exclusive…
One of my closest female friends recently married her French lover, also a woman, in San Francisco at the French Consulate. This doesn’t (yet) afford them full marital rights (tax, etc) in France but the marriage is recognised there and residence is one of those rights. Obviously, the marriage isn’t recognised anywhere in the US but it doesn’t matter for now as they are sooo blissfully happy. They keep telling me the marriage is just a piece of paper. Yeah right ! It’s great. Sadly, it’s going to be another story when the French girl’s visa expires - the situation is just insane.
BTW, it was also the deciding factor in both of them coming out to their families.
Anyways, a question… they both want children and, as I’ve recently learned, the whole subject is fraught with problems. Their current thinking is to not go for an anonymous donor / donors but, instead, to use the services of one ‘friend’ (so the kids will be biologically related, which would be nice – another consideration !). They also want to go through pregnancy at the same time and not use any artificial means of getting pregnant.
Aside from the obviously amusing practical issues surrounding how best they can put the plan into practice, this is a hugely difficult area with lifetimes of consequences at stake (that’s without considering the role and rights of the ‘father’).
I wondered if you had any experience of this subject and, if you had, how it’s working out ?
Lesbianism and motherhood ain’t necessarily mutually exclusive…
Oh, I know, London…just a silly term for us straights. Actually, I’ve never bred, personally. And I know lesbians who have. Gay men, too. In fact my father was gay, but created three children before he came out. 
Sorry for the slight delay there, folks. Back on track.
AlbertRose,
I am assuming you are a teacher/professor? Are they saying this in your classroom? Well, I’m not sure what to tell you. I suppose the most simple way to handle it is to explain to the students that using the word is inappropriate. I think drawing analogies to other words that were once acceptable might help. I’ll refrain from giving examples. You could also give them different words to use. That’s a hard one, AlbertRose. The only approach I can think of is to just honestly say it’s offensive and ask them to refrain.
Elmwood,
Heh. Um, okay, as for stocky lesbians…Well, I really don’t know. It’s true that many of the lesbians I see don’t fit a conventional mold of beauty. You asked “If lesbians are generally attracted to bigger girls…” That’s a total stumper for me. I don’t know. But let’s use an example:
Let’s say that 95% of all lesbians were stocky (these numbers are only for sake of an example, folks!). Then a great deal of lesbians would be dating other stocky lesbians and people might conclude that lesbians found stocky women attractive.
But what if 95% of all lesbians were not stocky? Then we might conclude the opposite - that lesbians found non-stocky women attractive.
Basically, I think it is a matter of some perspective. My guess is that it might be true that a majority of lesbians are less concerned about the conventional standards of beauty, including weight. That said, it may appear that lesbians aren’t overly concerned with it in a partner.
It’s an interesting question - Thanks, Elmwood.
Hi there, again, Carina42: When will you be taking me to Ms C’s?
New post to answer London_Calling!
Tibs.
Hi, London_Calling - thank you for the compliment.
Wow, what a situation!
What struck me is that they both want to go through the pregnancy at the same time. That’s sort of like hoping that if you both draw back a bow and release an arrow, they’ll both hit the bullseye on the first try. Heh. (Good analogy, Tibs.)
I think it’s a pretty neat idea, having the same father. I’m afraid I don’t have any experience in this area so I have little to share on the topic. But this does bring up a related topic that no one has asked about:
Theodore Hesburgh said, “The best thing a man can do for his children is love their mother.” If we broaden it a bit, I think we can say that if someone is going to have kids, one of the best things to provide them with is an example of a very loving, healthy relationship.
Which prompts this: How many of you know of any long-term, loving, healthy lesbian relationships?
They do exist, I have no doubt. But I will say this: The general sentiment I’ve heard expressed from lesbian friends is, “Everyone here has slept with everyone else…” And it is a joke that lesbians bring their U-Haul to the bar - because they move in together after 1-2 dates. I’ve noticed this, too - that my lesbian friends tend to get much more quickly involved in a relationship than my hetero friends do. I get asked all the time why I think this might be the case and there is no doubt in my mind that it really is more common among lesbians than hetero couples. My ex and I refer to it as “lesbo-drama” - someone always seems to be having a major relationship crisis.
Anyone have any idea why this is the case?
I have come up with some possible reasons - not of them particularly satisfying. It might be that some women growing up hid their sexual orientation and so they didn’t go through the emotional upswings and lessons about dating in high school quite like heterosexual people. So perhaps when they leave home, come out, etc - it’s such a release and it’s all new. Also, because they have gone so long without finding someone with whom they could relate that once they do, they cling instantly, afraid of losing that person. These are wild-ass guesses.
I do know that heterosexual couples experience these same things - but again, it seems quite common among lesbians. What do you all think?
Tibs.
Howdy! I’m going to ask some sexual questions, since many others are covering the social ones. Great post, btw.
OK, out on a limb (based on my experience, YMMV): Why are lesbians the ultimate champions of safe sex practices? OK, it is a good thing, but it seems almost fanatical- rubber gloves, dental dams, condoms on vibrators or separate toys for all. Aren’t y’all fairly safe when it comes to most STD’s, etc? Does it simply not matter in the feelings department whether latex is there or not, so, heck, why not use it all, all the time?
How often do you have sex? Does being in a steady relationship change the frequency (after X months/years)? My married sex-life goes straight down the statistical path, rarely veering from the 2x a week allotment, and 75% of the time I am the instigator (getting older sucks, even 5 years ago I wanted it every night). So, lacking even the levels of testosterone of a 31 yr-old male, how often?
Are you embarrassed getting caught masturbating by your partner? Would it be a big deal in most lesbian relationships?
How often are toys used? Every time, as the mood fits, rarely? Any good recommendations for a guy to get for his wife? 
Take care-
-Tcat
Tomacat-
Most of the lesbians I know are teenagers. I have to say that out of the ones I’ve had this conversation with, virtually none use the safe sex techniques you mentioned unless there is serious doubt about the partner. At a gathering of lesbians I was at some time ago, we talked about it and found that only one out of the twenty or so had ever used dental dams, gloves, whatever.
Using dental dams just isn’t that common. Lesbians are at low risk for many diseases, and it creates a sort of artificial feel of safety.
Like I said, YMMV (your mileage may vary)- I have been in…(counting)…4 conversations where this came up. And one was serious to the point of getting mean- “Everyone should always use safe practices, no matter what, especially in this day and age!”
Thanks for the reply, I’ll stop assuming that. Maybe Prague attracts the fanatical ex-pat lesbians, because in my experience, that is the rule here, not the exception.
-Tcat
To be hoonest, I’m terrified of lesbian bars. Although I’m a “breeder,” I’ve been to gay bars before, but the two lesbian bars female friends and I have tried to get into – one in D.C. whose name escapes me, and M.C. Compton’s in Buffalo – they wouldn’t let me in. They probably thought I was some horndog that expected to see a scene out of a cheesy porno film or something.
I honestly laughed a little through this post - you said a lot in a short time, Tomcat!
Okayyy…here goes.
Like Andygirl, I haven’t noticed the safe sex thing. In fact, I don’t know if I’ve ever talked with someone who has used a dental dam, etc.
The rest of your questions are extremely person specific. Like all couples, it depends on their chemistry and what’s right for them. I have not noticed any large trends that would indicate that lesbian couples have more or less sex than the average hetero couple. I suppose getting caught masturbating and what that would mean would just depend on the couple. I have no clue if that would be a big deal in most lesbian couples. Same with how often toys are used. Like all things, probably a lot when the toy is new.
As for a nice gift for your wife…how about a woman? ha ha ha, okay, I’m full of it. No, really, the best gift would be to talk with her about what she’d like to try and then offer to get the toy she’d like. She’d probably appreciate it.
Tibs.
Of course, Tom, it might entirely be a generational thing. Teens have that whole immortality complex as is, and when you’re a teenage lesbian there’s a lot of virgins to date.
As for toys… a lot of people use them, a lot of people don’t. It’s by no means a universal sex thing.
Ooo, Elmwood, Did you go to “The Hung Jury” in DC?
Holy cow, what a bar…I was there on business and distinctly remember dancing with my boss (no less) to “I want to fuck you up the ass.”
Good Lord. Remind me to behave when out of town.
Tibs.
See, this is why I asked! I always thought that the first stop for a girl after she decided she was a lesbian was the local porn shop! Only then did she buy the boots, thumb-ring, get a haircut, etc…
Really, it might paint me as more ignorant/arrogant than I want to be, but I always thought that if you were a lesbian, you used a vibrator. Period. Don’t have a dick? Use a toy. Tongues and hands only go so far.
Hmmm…OK, I guess that’s what this post is all about. I wonder what other silly questions I can come up with?
-Tcat