Oh, BTW, I’m not trying to ridicule you or saying you are wrong in your classification, only expressing surprise in your view. I hope I didn’t come across as that.
Most kids know what’s going to set their parents off. That doesn’t always stop them from doing it, but I think discretion is something that is valuable to learn as early in life as possible, and your parents monitoring your public LJ posts seems like a good place to start teaching it. I really can’t blame parents for reading their kids’ LJs. Again, if you don’t want the whole damn world to know about it, don’t post it on the worldwide web.
I never posted anything on my LJ that would “get me in trouble”, just general teenage-angst sort of things. But my mother was not internet-savvy, and wouldn’t have found it by herself had she not been closely monitoring my internet activity. That’s what was so duplicitous about it, that I couldn’t even post a completely anonymous livejournal page without my mother actively looking for those things, finding out about it, and reading it without letting on. It’s not like I put it up under my name. I didn’t want people I knew reading it. I wanted to vent underneath a pseudonym. Apparently, I wasn’t even allowed to do that. After the LJ thing, and her finding my paper journal, I was scared stiff about journals for years, feeling that I couldn’t write anything down that I didn’t want discovered and read. This is very hard for an aspiring novelist. It was a constant battle not to write.
That’s part of why I left to go to college at 16, but there were other reasons, too. But I still have the unpleasant feeling of being “monitored” when I visit home, and I think that’s unfortunate, especially for a kid who never actually did anything troublesome. I wouldn’t want to recreate that home-environment for my children, ever, even unintentionally, as I’m sure my mother did.
Just out of curiosity, are you your mom’s “firstborn child”? I’m a firstborn, and I know from experience that it’s no fun to be the “beneficiary” of parents’ inexperience. Growing up, I was basically a good kid who didn’t get in trouble. I had a very small number of friends, most of whom my mom didn’t like for one reason or another, but I preferred to spend most of my time alone in my room. This was way pre-Internet, and we didn’t even have a television (it broke when I was 10, and it was never repaired or replaced), so I spent most of my spare time just playing my guitar and singing, or reading, or writing.
And yet, my mom had to know everything I was doing, and freaked out over whatever “satanic” music I was listening to, and worrying about what nefarious authors I was reading (Asimov!), and so on and so forth. All this despite the fact that I never got into any kind of serious trouble aside from the occasional harmless (mostly) shenanigans that teenage boys get up to sometimes. I smoked cigarettes, but I didn’t drink or go to parties or have sex.
Meanwhile, my younger, more-socially-active sister was covertly smoking and drinking at her friends’ houses, going to parties, and losing her virginity at age 15. My mom was completely oblivious, because she was spending too much time worrying about what I was or wasn’t up to.
Yup, I was, and my brother got away with much, much more. His behavior was worse, and he seemed to get more “perks” whereas I was completely straight-laced and couldn’t catch a break. Wanna bet this daughter is PunditLisa’s first or only?
nongoog, it seems like you are invalidating’s PunditLisa’s parental concerns about the welfare of her child based on your own experience. This does not make me think well of you.
If you are not a parent yourself (and I infer that you are not), then your perspective on the situation is limited to that of one side. Unless you think that **PunditLisa **has somehow forgotten childhood, it’s a safe bet she has also at one time been a child, so she has that perspective. She also has 15-plus years of experience being a parent which you do not have, in particular 15 years being the parent of this child. And yes, 15 is still a child, legally and in many other ways. Even mature, intelligent 15-year-olds lack the life experience that allows them to make decisions as well as their parents (although there is no shortage of examples of 15-year-olds that are more mature than their parents, such is the exception rather than the rule).
One reason for parents to be more concerned about older children than younger ones is that younger children model their behavior on their siblings. If the older ones are doing it, the younger ones will too. Yes, it sucks that Phase42’s younger sister (and your younger brother) got away with all kinds of stuff when he (you) didn’t, but that doesn’t particularly bear on this situation.
I’m my parents firstborn - and I’m 41. My baby sister (now 35) got away with a TON of crap I didn’t. And I got out and being young and stupid (and almost everyone is young and stupid in their early twenties) made a few mistakes (a few loser boyfriends - one of whom I married), but being a fairly responsible intelligent person whose parents had instilled a good responsible foundation, managed to pick up fairly quickly.
The baby is an alcoholic mess with a series of bad relationships, bad jobs, bad credit.
This all seemed terribly unfair when I was a kid (and young adult) - but I got the better parenting - not the less experienced, the more careful. And it paid off.
(Some of it is just a difference in personalities between her and I.)
My question to nongoog probably should have gone in a PM. But you’re sort of correct. The younger do model their behavior on the older. My sister, who is completely unlike me in personality, learned to hide her activities much better than I did. The fact is, I was scared to death to do anything wrong. But my sister got it all out of her system when she was a teenager - which is sort of what the teenage years are for. I, on the other hand, suddenly discovered my “freedom” as a young adult out on my own for the first time, and did all sorts of stupid shit that still dogs me to this day.
I think that’s actually a very good question, and it’s one that I’ve pondered, on both the child and adult sides of the equation, quite often. There was a pretty good article about this in Parenting magazine this month, or last month, and it examined the need for varying levels of privacy at various ages.
First, I’d say one needs to *express *a need for privacy, and to do it in a rational, respectful and reasonable manner. My two year old (nearly three) is starting to do this as she needs privacy. “Mama out! Privacy please!” she’ll say, when she needs a moment to herself. And, generally, I give it to her (unless it’s a stalling technique), but you can bet that I stay within earshot of that closed door, and if I hear her up to mischief, Privacy Time is over. In return, she lets me pee with the door closed nearly 70% of the time now!
As she gets older, we’ll continue to renegotiate our needs - her need for privacy *and *my need to make sure she’s not harming herself physically or emotionally.
But, IMHO, much like sex, if you can’t talk about it, you’re not old enough to have it. If you can’t articulate your need for privacy, then there’s no sense becoming outraged when you don’t get any.
If you’ve articulated your need, logically supported it, and are safely using it (that is, not getting into trouble of the physical, social, emotional or spiritual kind) and your parent is still unwilling to extend you that privacy, then they are the unreasonable ones, generally speaking.
Well, I’m with Freud on this one, there are no accidents.
She knew when she did this that she was skirting your rules.
That she left her laptop and printouts where you could find them, (even by accident), indicates to me that she, at some level wants you to discover this.
Perhaps things progressed innocently initially so she felt comfortable going against your wishes. And perhaps now she senses things have progressed a tad beyond her own comfort zone. She has found a way of apprising you of the situation, y’know, ‘by accident’.
Just keep in mind that she may be seeking a demonstration that you care she doesn’t become one of those statistics you read so much about.
Were I you, I would save the histronics, be firm and talk to her like an adult.
Make it clear that these are the adult consequences of her actions, and that’s how the adult world operates. Tell her you became accidentally aware of her transgressions, refuse to listen to her accusations of snooping, as that’s not what happened. Take away her laptop for a month, and, no she does not get a chance to explain things to her mates. Will it make her homework harder to do? Life more challenging? Tough darts.
In my opinion this child is seeking the protection of caring parents, a demonstration that they will not stand by and watch her put herself at risk.
Good luck to you.
(Also, consider buying a lottery ticket, it may not look like it but this was a lucky day. Had you not had this wake up call you could very well have woken up to a very different reality.)
Not having read every post, I tend to agree with WhyNot’s opinion that forbidden love is a sure-fire way to get the teenage hormones flowing even harder. She broke a rule and there should be consequences for that. But the boyfriend thing? I’d mention that you would like to meet him when they decide to meet IRL. Take an interest in him. Learn as much as you can about him (and your daughter). This new-fangled form of Pen Pal is probably not a bad thing. Just remember that this kid is innocent until proven guilty…and kids sexualize at a much younger age today than they did years ago…and this is the age kids start thinking about love; puppy or otherwise. Don’t demonize him unless you have good reason to. Good luck. I’m glad I don’t have a teenager anymore. I truly am.
Further to Cazzle’s post about ‘identity fraud’ back on page 2 of this thread, there was a case here in Melbourne recently that involved a mature-aged man grooming a young 14 yr old girl for sexual encounters.
It happened that I was in the courtroom (for a different case, not mine!!) when the judge was handing down the sentence for this creep. He’d already been found guilty by a jury, but it is up to the judge in Australian courts to determine the punishment. What he read out, and it took nearly an hour to complete, made my stomach churn and thank my lucky stars that my kids are now past the age where the internet and teenage naivety is a problem.
Long story short, this guy (aged 39, married with kids, we’ll call him Johnno) started out online as a 16 yr old boy in a chatroom with the girl. Over a period of months they built up a very friendly (and sometimes sexually adventurous and explicit) relationship, but they never met. Gifts (yes, cheap jewellry even) and cards were exchanged.
One day though Johnno claimed that his boss at work (from where he apparently was doing all his online chatting) had discovered the IM logs, and was going to sack him. Johnno pleaded with his young ‘girlfriend’ to ring the boss and beg for his job back. This young girl, fearing the outcome for the boyfriend she had come to love rang as requested, and the ‘boss’ arranged to meet her to discuss the issue.
So Johnno (in the guise of the boss) suggests to the girl that the only way Johnno (the young employee) can save his job is for her to have sex with Johnno the boss. And because she is young, and naive and feels that it is all her ** fault that Johnno the 16yr old is in trouble, she complies…on two occasions…before her [ B]WTF Sensor comes into full operation and she tells her mum and dad. Police are called and the next scheduled ‘meeting’ with the Johnno the boss is staked out and Johnno (of both incarnations) is arrested.
Sure, this doesn’t happen very often, but it does happen. And 14 yr old girls, although they might seem like they are going on 24 and are bright and worldly and intelligent are still babies in many ways and can be easily duped by slick conmen who are prepared to spend weeks and MONTHS grooming them for the eventual abuse.
My advice? This ‘boy’ is guilty until proven innocent. Young boys do not send gifts to internet girls 2000 miles away. Something is very wrong here.
And if/when you do find that he is just 16 and a simple computer nerd, you can breathe a sigh of relief.
Good luck!
Edited to add that the Judge in the case I cited issued a press-release about the pertinent facts as a warning to parents, so I’m not contravening any privacy or contempt of court issues by posting them here.
AFAIAA grooming (‘soliciting a minor’) is indeed a crime.
But if you overestimate the threat to her safety, you unnecessarily ruin (damage?) the trust, and it’s the trust you’ll need later on when there is actually a real danger or problem.
I say take the information you have and use it to inform your decisions about what to talk about and how to monitor her and don’t use it as evidence against her.
It also harms her ability to make smart decisions when she encounters these things on her own.
As a young teen, I met more than enough would-be perverts. And as a grown woman, I’ve met plenty of creepy, manipulative, abusive men. Predators are out there, and you can’t keep your daughter from ever meeting one. I remember men proposing inappropriate things everywhere as a young teen- one time I even got dirty talk by the guy who picked up after I dialed a wrong number! On the street, my friend’s parents, at school, at work…everywhere. There are more creeps out there than you can imagine.
However, the vast majority of young teens who are groomed do not end up abused. For every one thousand times a creep trys, he succeeds once. I told all of these men to "fuck off’ in so many words. And I believe that is what the vast majority of well ajusted young women do.
What you need to do is not protect your daughter from ever ecountering a dangerous situation with men (impossible), but give her the ability to recognize danger signs and say “fuck off” when appropriate. Give her the tools to deal with these situations. This is a lesson she will need throughout her life, not just adolescence.
And to do this, sometimes you have to let herself get into a little trouble. If you keep her from encountering these things in a fairly safe situation (a guy 3000 miles away) she won’t know how to deal with it when the creep down the street tries to pull something. Scary as hell, for sure. But the vast majority of people with a good upbringing survive these difficult years without too many scars.
Of course, if you don’t set the expectation of privacy, you wouldn’t be violating trust. My kids are yet pretty young, but we’ve laid the ground rules on internet and told them their parents can and will snoop.
When they move off to college they can decide not to tell their Mom about all sorts of things. Until then, they are my responsibility.
How so? Because the parent has made the decision for her, she will feel disempowered? How does that follow?
Because we learn to not make mistakes by making tiny mistakes that don’t hurt us, and hopefully extrapolate big lessons from those tiny consequences. There’s a whole theory of parenting that revolves around this idea, popularized in the series of books called Parenting With Love and Logic.
And you return home to find that she freaked out and stabbed him in the head with a kitchen knife. Try explaining that one to his family. 
I am still awaiting a result I think PunditLisa last posted at #94.
If you can’t share, can you please let us know?