I saw a youtube video the other day where men were asked to write in what convinced them to leave the manosphere. One of the replies was “I wanted to date a woman.”
If people spread versions of the bigoted things Archie said without the rest of the show’s context for it, it would be analogous.
And in the case of the homophobic stories people do do that - how do you know sometimes they weren’t picked up from what you think is a positive interaction and just shorn of the contextual “humour” that supposedly reverses the sting? You can’t.
A little bit, yeah. Every little bit helps.
Fallacy of false dichotomy. I can legislate for changes, teach my kids better, march in Pride, support rainbow businesses AND bitch about homophobic “humour” on the internet.
That gives you no special standing - speaking as a bisexual man.
Yet the stories still exist.
Tell me you don’t know how urban legends work without telling me…
Fallacy of appeal to consequences. The stories are still out there, this is not some lost legend.
And it is a big deal.
Methinks I hit a nerve. That’s a guilty aggressive pushback reaction if ever i saw one.
And I’m sure Rod Stewart remained completely unaffected when he hears the rumour repeated, and is asked about it on Katie Couric or has to address it in his autobiography - and so does every queer kid who hears a version of it now…
So your bottom line is that we can’t make fun of the absurdity of homophobic rumors? Or even discuss it? It’s that attitude that gives those stories teeth.
Oh, discuss them - sure. I’m doing that myself.
But who in this convo actually called them out specifically as homophobic before I raised it? I did a search on the word and nada - maybe i missed it because it was caged in a stupid joke?
“Make fun of” I’m less sanguine about. IMO all that does is let the actual homophobia skate without adequately calling it out. You know - “locker room talk”, “schoolboy humour” and similar bullshit excuses.
Some of don’t feel the need to point out that water is wet every time we talk about the rain.
When it’s acid that’s raining down, I think it’s good for everyone if you point it out every time.
How many home-schooled Far Right xian teens & college kids do you know? IMO those folks are Reactionary with a capital R.
As suggested by several posters shortly after your post.
The reality in hard red Amerika almost can’t be beleived until seen.
Huh. Sounds like you’re trying to accuse me of something, but I’m not following the therapy speak well enough to parse out what.
Katie: Rod, I know its an uncomfortable conversation, but the SDMB is on fire right now with discussion of the forty-year-old rumor about you getting your stomach pumped, and we simply can’t proceed with this interview without addressing it.
Rod, dropping to his knees: NOOOOOOOOOOOO!
And seriously, “what about the children?” Setting aside how obnoxious that argument is on it’s own, this is the SDMB. Do we even have a member under the age of forty on here?
Sure, buddy, sure. I’m sure the straights all know you’re not like the other girls now, you can probably be less performative.
She did, in fact, ask him about it. The Dope did not get a look-in.
Because no online conversation ever made it offline or onto other online fora 
Although yes, we do have some <40yo members.
Also, not that it matters, but “queer kid” there is meant to cover 20-somethings as well. Same sense as “club kid”.
“It’s homophobic if you’re not appropriately po-faced when you discuss this dumb rumor from the 80s. Also, if you disagree with me, you’re a girl.”
Definitely not the direction I expected this thread to go in.
All right, this is the pit and all, but really?
I sympathize with the assertion that it would have been good to at least identify the slurs in question as homophobic when discussing them. I also find myself surprised at Miller’s pushback on this issue. But you’re not winning any friends here. Please, take a breath. You don’t have to have the last word.
Cute, acting like you don’t know the “not like the other girls” meme and performing outrage at seeming hypocrisy. Like I said - performative.
What makes you think I want to be friends with a bunch of people willing to softball homophobia for the lulz?
I meant friends for your cause, not for you personally.
I might have said “our cause” but I don’t want to be that closely associated with what you are doing. If your only cause here were reducing homophobia, then I would suggest you’re doing it wrong, but I don’t think it is.
Apparently they’re all already such strong supporters they can now afford to do bad jokes about it all, so no need there, I guess.
Do tell.
So, you’re now doing the exact same thing you were complaining about others doing.
…what the hell are you talking about?
Oh, I’m entirely aware of it. You’re still trying to insult me by comparing me to a stereotype about women.
Which, to be clear, I’m not really “outraged” by. I understand the phenomenon described by the “pick-me girl” stereotype, and I don’t object to calling it out, even bluntly the way you did to me just now. But it’s incredibly precious to do so in the context of lecturing people for discussing forty year old urban legends without signposting everywhere that the stories are homophobic and bad and also homophobic. “Remember these dumb stories about Rod Stewart?” is perpetuating homophobia, but “you’re not like other girls” is not perpetuating misogyny? What sort of reasoning are you using that justifies the second but not the first?
This is the definition of crazy talk.
When every single participant in the conversation already knows and agrees that it’s acid, it’s unnecessary to keep repeating that fact while discussing its implications.
But since you disagree, I’ll give you the solace of adding to my post: Absurd rumors about men swallowing gargantuan amounts of semen are indisputably homophobic.
By the way, when I addressed someone who didn’t seem to understand this (in the general case, since the specifics were whether Jamie Lee Curtis is intersex or trans), I did point out that the rumor was “bigoted.” I doubt this absolves me from your vitriol, nor do I care, but FTR I think it’s misplaced.
This is fascinating
But I don’t mean to interrupt.
Carry on…