Indygrrl - You say that “It’s just been awhile since I’ve had a beef with him on anything. And I hate it. I don’t want to get into it with him, especially since we’ve been getting along great for such a long time.” To my mind that means that you’ve been getting along so well because you’re giving into him to avoid conflict. I think it’s important that relate to him as an adult. If that means conflict, so be it. But inorder for that to be effective you have to be willing to give up the help that you get from them.
While he’s Sleeping? F-that. Sweep his legs, sit on his chest & clipper him a mohawk. And say when you leave, “Remember: You cut her hair? I cut Your hair.”
That’s the trouble with youth today; they coddle their parents so they never learn…
No you’re not crazy. You should have a talk with him. Write it out first and practice it. You need to be honest with him (and yourself) that providing a normal appearance to your daughter is one of the few joys you have control of in your life and it means a lot to you. When that little bit of control is taking away by your own father it hurts doubly. How would he feel if he were in a nursing home with his wife and an orderly decided one of you needed a hair cut but you were both too weak to stop it.
I have a sneaking suspicion that your father unconsciously wants to make your daughter unattractive to protect her from predators.
My parents are this way. For example, Mom let me store some of my belongings in their basement when I went away to college. Dad tore into the boxes, read all my old diaries, and then discussed the most embarrassing contents with other family members. He also threw some things away. To his mind, I had no rights because the things were in his house.
So I took my stuff out of my parents’ house.
You have two options: 1) stop letting them babysit, or 2) stop expecting your rights to be respected when she goes there.
You can’t change someone like your dad. You can only change your own expectations/actions. Sad but true.
This was my thought, too. That’s a pretty big boundary violation. This is one you can SEE and he’s not even apologetic about it. What else does “the dictator” DO that bothers her and she doesn’t have the words to express it? I’m not being alarmist here and suggesting out and out molest or anything, but she might not miss spending time with grandpa, frankly. He sounds like a bit of a dick to me.
Emotionally, you are spending WAY to much for their “help”, and only to avoid knowing what you will do without it. This might give you the motivation to find less costly options (money isn’t everything), and that could be really empowering for you.
I wonder why she was compelled to tell you about the possibility of Dad cutting your daughter’s hair when she knew darn good and well that no matter what your opinion, he would do it anyway.
I came in here ready to tell the OP to just get over it; however, I agree with the calm, rational conversation suggestion. When that doesn’t work, they can no longer have unsupervised visitation. It’s that simple. If your Dad can’t be trusted to make a good decision regarding her hair, how can you trust that he’ll be able to make a good decision in an emergency situation.
I can see how a little thing like this could get all blown out of proportion and lots of hurt feelings on both sides. The proverbial rock and hard place.
If you decide to take him to task on this, I can’t recommend strongly enough the need for calm, rational, discussion and leave the emotional side at home. This is a breeding ground for a lot of pent up frustration with Dad to get unloaded at a most inappropriate time.
I’ve had to deal with my mother on issues like this before, as she likes to meddle in everything. Here is the only formula that I know that works.
Remove both yourself and Dad to neutral territory, a restaurant, coffee shop etc, and tell him in plain, stern language EXACTLY what you think about this issue. DO NOT let yourself go off on him about his attitudes in general etc, stay on topic. Let him know that while you value his relationship with both yourself and your daughter, if he doesn’t respect both your position as a parent, and her as a person, then he will only be seeing you on holidays, and that if he’s lucky.
Call your mom, and explain what you talked about to her after the talk with dad, and make sure SHE understands that if she doesn’t do her part to reign in her husband SHE won’t see your daughter either.
You are 33. Tell him in no uncertain terms that if he cuts your daughers hair, the won’t be seeing her for 6 months. Then stick to that when he cuts her hair–which it sounds like he will. Be willing to find some other solution for assistance for those 6 months, but stick to it. Contact them after the 6 months have passed and let them know if they are willing to abide by your rules they can see their grandchild again. If they can’t–don’t let them see her. Either they will adjust to your rules or they won’t. If they won’t and are willing to not see their grandchild–so be it. You owe them nothing.
Simple as that. You are an adult who is raising your child as you deem appropriate. It would be one thing if there is a question of child abuse, etc.
If my parents or inlaws EVER did anything like this they would have the riot act laid out on them. I realize he is your dad and you have history with him–but you are also 33 years old. Time to grow up and make him understand you are an adult and this is your child and YOU will make the decisions for her.
I’d also say that if they can’t agree to the rules, it’s a clear indication that them controlling you and your daughter means far more to them than the well being of their child and grandchild. Who needs that?
(BTW, my 4yo’s hair is in her eyes right now, because we’re trying to grow out bangs that were cut way too aggressively, and she tends to take out barrettes. It’s not child abuse, just part of the PITA of changing hairstyles sometimes.)
You are not crazy to resent this weird control game. Good luck to you - I hope they see the light so you can have the help without the passive aggressive mind games.
Sigh. This family has worse problems than a haircut.
For the last two days my dad has been calling my phone–and I haven’t felt like talking to him so I haven’t answered. Last night my sister calls me and tells me that dad thinks I have moved out of my house, which is ludicrous. Where does he get this shit? He really needs to get a hobby other than putting his nose in where it doesn’t belong.
So I call him back today and he doesn’t say anything about it. He just chatted like he hadn’t been talking behind my back and trying to stir up drama where there is none. I emailed my mom and said this, “Its hard to believe that dad called me 500 times just to ask how daughter is doing. I wonder why he didn’t ask me what he really wanted to ask me?” Her response, “He is wondering what is happening with you guys. You know how nosey he is. I am surprise he didn’t tell you what he really wanted to know. He knows there is something up about all of you.”
THERE IS NOTHING GOING ON WITH ANY OF US.
They are going on vacation for a week, starting Monday. And I am glad to get them away even if it is just a week. During that time I really am going to rethink the situation with my daughter. I have had it with my dad! He’s driving me insane.
For those who say that the OP should threaten to cut off their visits with their granddaughter, keep in mind three things:
a) The grandparents are helping out financially for speech therapy. If the daughter needs it, then you don’t want to cut off her daughter’s therapy to spite her hair.
b) The hair thing is bizarre, but I’d think long and hard before I’d cut my parents off from my children. My parents act completely differently with my kids than they do with me and I really think it can be a great thing for both of them.
c) If you have a special needs child, it’s not easy or cheap to find caregivers. No matter what, she knows that her daughter is loved and being taken care of in her parents’ hands. The hair thing is a crappy situation, but cutting off visits with her dad would probably create a real hardship for IndyGrrl.
Advice to the OP? Can you pull her hair back into a pony tail when they see your dad so that your father won’t obsess over its length? Can you ask your mom to hide all the scissors when your daughter is around? (I’m serious.)
While I don’t disagree with anything you have said here–it probably really isn’t about hair at all. If a father can’t allow his 33 year old daughter to make her own decisions on something as trivial as the length of her daughters hair, there are some major control issues going on there in my opinion. Follow that up with him calling her over and over again and trying to create issues where there are none, doesn’t seem like the healthiest situation to place a child in either.
I advocated that if she is ABLE to find another way to do this, then she should exercise taking back control, if she financially can’t, then unfortunately she may have to take his crap to make this work for her daughter. But in my opinion if she did make this statement and could hold the line on this, she may get him to understand she is an adult capable of making decisions. My sense is he would prefer to see his granddaughter–most bullies back down when confronted.
Still think the dad is being a total ass on this-- I let my own 12 year old daughter deal with her hair length, style and color. Hair is a very personal thing for most people and to have someone cut it as a control thing is a shitty thing to do.
You have hit the nail on the head. All of what you say here is true, and I’ve talked to my mom about not letting my dad cut my daughter’s hair. As long as I make sure her bangs are not in her face, we should be able to keep him away from it.
I have always been in a bad position with regard to my dad and his help. It started when I was in college and he’d throw it in my face every time I said or did something he didn’t like. And that led me to tell him to keep his money, that I’d figure out a way to pay for it myself. And I did find a way. I went out and became a stripper and paid that tuition up to the very end. When he found out about that he went off the deep end. But from where I was sitting it seemed like a much better alternative. It kept him from owning me like he had my whole life.
The screwed up thing is I’m watching him do the exact same thing to my little sister. She’s a junior in college and he’s paid her tuition so far, but she’s had to bend over backwards and listen to what an ungrateful brat she is, etc. She’s far from ungrateful, and she’d definitely not a brat. Before she went to college I know she judged me for dancing, but shortly after she started getting it from my dad she told me she understood why I did what I did. She wouldn’t go out and strip, but I know she’s thought about ways in which she could pay for it so she could be free from him.
Once he started helping me with my daughter I had to resign myself to the fact that he would always be able to hold that over me. But I felt like I didn’t have a choice because I really needed the help.
We have two brothers also. He controlled both of them for a long time by having them work for him. The younger of the two got sick of it and told him to take the job and shove it. Last winter dad told everyone that my younger brother was doing crack and that’s why he quit the company. My brother was holed up and depressed, but crack? Only my dad could come up with that. The older one still works for him----he HATES it but he does it anyway.
And he’s helped me and my brothers buy our houses (by helping us with the loans so we’d get a decent rate). After that I pretty much resigned myself to the fact that he owns me. I’d rather have the house and have help with my kid than cut ties with my dad, which would really mean cuttng off ties with my whole family.
This is all just .0001% of the controlling things my dad has done to us our whole lives. He’s really sick in that way and will never be able to see it. And he’s in denial about anything he’s ever done wrong in his life. He’d be a good case study for someone who wanted to study his personality disorder, whatever its called. Hell, he may have invented a new personality disorder. I’ve certainly never known anyone else like him.
Indygrrl, you have my sympathies, up to a point. You paid for your own college, but you allowed your father “own” you again (your words, and very true) when you let him help you get your house.
Until you financially cut your father out of your life completely, he will always think he has a say.
Just think about what could happen in 10 years with your daughter…if your father thinks he has a right now to control the length of her hair, what will he do when she’s older? Insist on what clothes/shoes/friends she can have?
I fear unless you put your foot down now, your daughter will always have one too many parents.
You are right. I don’t have an excuse for why I took his help except that he had been on my ass for a good five years about how I was “wasting money on rent,” etc. Seriously, he’d bring it up every time I saw him. Eventually, I happened upon my dream house and the only way I could get it was if I let him help me. I guess I figured that I was already indebted to him for years of speech therapy for my daughter ($140 a week) so I might as well get the house.
It takes a lifetime to get your mind warped by someone like my dad. He’s Mr. Personality when he wants to be, and he really convinces you that what he’s saying is the right thing. Then when he gets mad about something the Jekyll/Hyde thing happens and you remember why you wanted to get far away from him. I’m not going to lie, it’s a twisted relationship we have going.
I’d be interested in reading something similar topicwise, but without the religious slant. My therapist had me read “Toxic Parents,” which really hit the nail on the head with a lot of the things it discussed. But, it’s still hard to know where (and how) to draw the line when it comes to my family.
I think your family has the right to offer advice, but not to force you into a decision. As far as your house goes, letting your father browbeat you for five years was ridiculous. I know you are in a very difficult situation, but I’m afraid he will start trying to control your daughter as she gets older too.
I know *Boundaries *has a Christian slant, and may not be for all people. If it helps, great. If not, hey, no harm done.
You need to answer one question for yourself before deciding how to proceed. If he gets pissed off and cuts off the money, could you and your daughter do ok without it?
Answer that question and we could give much more useful advice.
He has browbeaten me over every issue he feels is a problem—for my entire life. When I was a kid I thought that everyone’s dad was like that, you know, screaming and cussing at every little thing they did wrong. To me that was normal. As I got older and went around other families I realized that he was the only person I’ve ever seen act like that. There were very few days after I hit 13 that my dad didn’t scream and yell at me about something or other.
Actually, as he’s gotten older he has gotten somewhat better about the yelling. But I can walk into my parent’s house and know instantly what kind of Sunday dinner we’ll be having. My dad’s mood sets the tone for everyone, even on holidays and shit.
The problem here is that I love my dad and I really do enjoy being around him when he’s not acting like a lunatic towards me. And like I said earlier, it’s been a really long time since he’s directed it at me. The other problem is that if I cut off contact with my dad I would essentially be cutting off contact with the rest of my family as well, and I am not willing to do that.
As for the finances, I could handle it without his help if I had to. But I don’t think he would pull it even if he was mad at me. He cares too much about my daughter to do that.
I didn’t mean for this to turn into a thread about my dysfunctional relationship with my dad, but I guess I’m more frustrated with him than I thought.
