Should I let my dad meet my daughter? (Long read!)

In My Humble Opinion
1

Hi Dopers,

It’s been a while! I’ve been lurking for the last 7 or so years because I haven’t had much to say.

Now, I’ve got a doozy and I’d like some opinions.

My dad has been mentally and emotionally abusive all of my life. I went to therapy during high school to keep from committing suicide - and of course he had no idea I was in therapy (it was through my counselor’s office) because it would have pointed to the fact that he made me feel like I was an unworthy human being and my depression was caused by him.

He did the things that all Asian parents do, provide educational support and tote your children’s accomplishments as your own. He paid for college, but at the same time would call me at 6am (he worked graveyard and would come home at dawn) to tell me what a horrible daughter I was. To the world, he was a supportive, loving father. At home, he could either be indifferent or frothing at the mouth and driving me to tears because I didn’t clean my room the right way. I never had an idea of what would set him off.

My mom and brother knew he was like that and did nothing. “That’s how dad is, you need to stop pissing him off” was the standard answer when I pleaded for help.

When my paternal grandfather was dying of colon cancer, the last thing he said to me was “your mom is a good person; listen to her. Your dad is a bad person. Don’t let him bring you down. Don’t let him get into your head.” This was from my dad’s dad. I have never forgotten those words.

In 2007 when I graduated from college and started my first job, my dad said “you only make $14/hr? What did I put you through college for? You’re wasting my money!” That was it. I stopped talking to him.

Since then, I have gotten married. My mom brought him to the wedding to keep up appearances because my other relatives attended. My mom walked me down the aisle. My brother’s wedding gift was keeping my dad away from me the whole day. By my brother’s own admission, my dad was chomping at the bit to tell me where I had messed up with my wedding and wanted to tell me what I should have done.

I have also had my first child.

My mom told him I was pregnant and then I gave birth in 2013. My dad has my cell phone number and he never called. He never emailed me. I haven’t heard anything from him since 2007.

My mom and brother are trying their best to convince me to have my dad meet my daughter. I can’t go to family meet ups because I don’t want him to see my daughter. None of my relatives know about our estrangement and just think I’m very busy. I feel like I’m losing out.

My mom once tried to bring my dad to my apartment before I moved so he could meet her. My mom said “it’s not a big deal because you’re moving so he won’t know where you live after this. I’ll even take your daughter to him so you won’t have to see your dad.” After I called my brother bawling and begged him to stop my mom, she finally said she wouldn’t do that.

My mom and my brother haven’t brought it up since but I feel like it’s a bomb waiting to go off.

My dad never physically abused me. He kept me alive and put me through college. But I can’t reconcile all of the mental and emotional abuse. I don’t want to reward him by letting him meet my daughter.

Bottom line, I don’t want my daughter to experience any of the abuse that I endured.

I feel like that should be it, but then I feel like I’m being a bad Asian daughter by not being more flexible. My mom and brother are still saying “that’s how he is, he cares for you in his own way.” I have nightmares about my dad a few nights a month and I always wake up crying.

I just don’t know and it hurts me so much to be put in this position. The fact that he hasn’t even reached out to me makes me feel like he doesn’t care. But my mom tells me that he asks her for updates on my daughter.

I’m so back and forth about this that I’m mixed up. My husband is being a very supportive sounding board and he says that he supports whatever I decide. He understands the dysfunction of my family and he tries to help me through these episodes of ‘do I, don’t I?’

What say you, Dopers? I need perspective.

2

I don’t have an Asian background, so I can’t speak to that.

All I can say is do what you need to do for your own peace of mind. If that means seeing your dad again, fine. If it means laying down the ground rules for interaction with your daughter, fine.

If it means getting up in his face the first time he snarls at the tot, fine.

You do what’s best for you and your family. The rest is just noise.

3

From what you say, this isn’t about you, your father, or your daughter. It’s about your mother, mostly, and her need to pretend that everything is okay.

Since it’s not okay, I don’t see why you should indulge her. What you’re really asking, I think, is how to stand up to the relentless, bullying pressure your mother puts on you to give in and “keep up appearances” (your words).

Others will have better advice, but from everything you said it sounds like you’re stuck in a repeat pattern, led by your mother, who isn’t going to change. You have to break the cycle. Whatever her vision of family is, you don’t owe it to her to fulfill it with your child.

4

Doesn’t sound like you’re thrilled with the idea or that he’s too concerned one way or the other. So, what’s the point?

5

I too think you should consider your own peace of mind. If that means complete distant from your parents, go for it. If it means trying out limited contact with your dad, try that. But do carefully monitor how he relates to your daughter, assuming he does.

Have you considered therapy? I’m not a fan, myself, for most situations, but this seems like something a therapist could really help you work out. Especially if you decide to interact with your father.

Whatever you do, please don’t take your father’s judgement of you to heart. He sounds like a real asshole. And your mom sounds like his enabler.

6

What are the differences between mental abuse and emotional abuse?

I also agree with Dr. Drake, that your current problem isn’t your dad, but your mom. It appears that your dad wrote you off, when you wrote him off. He hasn’t tried to reach out to you. It’s always your mom that wants to keep up appearances. Your mom wants to have her granddaughter meet her grandfather. Because that means something to her. Just as having your dad at your wedding meant something. I don’t think your dad really cares, or he would reach out. When your daughter get’s much older and she wants to meet her grandfather, if he’s still around, then you can let that be her decision, then.

7

Thanks for the replies, everyone! I’m carefully considering everyone’s input.

This thread was inspired by Alice the Goon’s thread about her father passing away and her not being sad.

My dad is in bad health and I’m twisting myself up because I don’t know if I should introduce my dad to my daughter before he passes away or if I should keep this estrangement going. Before my daughter was born, I was very happily living my life separate from him. Now that she’s here, I don’t know if I should keep it up.

Another layer of complexity is the thought that I’m depriving my daughter of her grandpa. My father-in-law is the best grandpa ever so it’s not like my daughter doesn’t have a grandpa in her life. She has two grandmothers and I feel responsible for keeping her other grandpa away. My daughter is starting to notice things more and I don’t know what to say when she finally does ask “where is my other grandpa?”

Lots of back and forth the past 2 years as you can see.

8

Yeah, and she shouldn’t have to experience her grandfather laying any more of that abuse on you, either. It would also be damaging to let her see him abusing you and you just taking it.

Where’s your husband in all this? He should be standing right next to you, supporting you in your right to raise your daughter free of abuse. He should help stand up to your mom, too.

I agree that a therapist would be a good idea, as well. You deserve better, Penchan. Unfortunately, you’ll have to take the first steps yourself. Hopefully, your therapist and your husband will give you courage.

PS - your brother sounds like a good guy, too.

9

In my experience they’re intertwined. There was the ‘you’re never going to be good enough’ = mental abuse. I was never allowed to be mad, sad or cry and if he caught me showing those feelings then there was lots of yelling = emotional abuse.

There have been a number of times where he would be standing over me, yelling at me to shut up, to stop crying and all I could do was cry even harder and curl up into a ball and hope he would stop. Any hint of defiance was met with an onslaught of anger. My childhood and adolescence was pretty crappy to the point where my in-laws offered to let me live with them when I was in high school and dating their son, who is now my husband.

10

Perspective as the granddaughter of an abusive parent…

My maternal grandmother was a horrible, nasty person. Physically abusive sometimes, always doing her best to pull her children down. Mum left home at 17 and didn’t quite cut off contact but it was decades before she was able to talk on the phone to her without wanting to burst into tears.

In the meantime, I had been born. Evil Granny lived just a suburb or so away from us. My dad was firmly of the opinion that visiting your grandparents was What You Did, so every month we would go for afternoon tea. Mum never went. And as a child, I didn’t question this at all. I really never thought ‘hmm, this is my mum’s mum, and my mum is the one who never ever goes there - wonder what’s up?’. Captain Oblivious - that was me.

Later on, I remember her doing things that sent mum absolutely mental. A favourite was - she was living in the US by this time - sending over an enormous nicely wrapped Christmas present in a box that turned out to be layer upon layer of wrapping that resolved down to some crappy trinket from the dollar shop. But I didn’t care. ‘Hey, 50 cent cheapo raffia earrings - just what I would have bought with my own money. Thanks, Evil Gran!’ And she probably made snide remarks to me too, but if so they completely went over my head.

Evil Gran delighted in pushing her family’s buttons. But my buttons are installed in a totally different place to my mother’s (not to mention, my uncle’s and great-aunty’s). Her opinion truly didn’t matter enough to me to make me upset. She’d make a huge fuss about some trivial point of etiquette, and it wouldn’t make me think ‘ZOMG, granny is judging me.’ but rather ‘holy crap, old folks are weird.’ and then go back to something more interesting.

Bottom line - a relationship with your dad doesn’t sound worth pursuing for its own sake. But if avoiding him is stopping you from seeing other family members that you might quite like to see - well, it’s worth considering just saying fuck it, and going to the family gatherings. And I think your kid will be fine. The person whose emotions you should worry about is yours.

11

I just read the OP, not the rest of the thread, so this may be a repeat answer:

I wouldn’t go out of your way to let your father meet your daughter. Eminem says it really nice:

“And Haley’s getting so big now; you should see her, she’s beautiful. But you’ll never see her! She won’t even be at your funeral!”

Don’t let your dad drag your daughter down to his level. And don’t let yourself feel guilty that you’re missing out on family occasions.

12

I’ve been estranged from my mother for more than two decades. She last saw my son when he was a month old (he’s 26 now) and met my daughter for the first time when she was 22 (very quick encounter at a family event.)

I have a great MIL and step-mom. When the kids were old enough to ask, I told them the truth. “Your other grandmother is a horrible human being and she is not in my life. Love Nana and Grandma. They’re your real grandmothers.”

You have nothing to apologize for and it may confuse her to meet your dad. Family is defined by love, not blood.

13

For what it’s worth (not much), my advice would be to let your daughter meet him occasionally, but not often enough for him to establish any kind of relationship with her. Then he won’t be able to hurt her the way he hurt you.

True, it will give him some satisfaction, but I’d argue that his feelings don’t really matter one way or the other.

When your daughter is old enough, you should explain to her honestly that he is (or was) just not a nice person, and it’s sad but there’s nothing anyone could do to change him.

14

Is your daughter old enough to be told how you feel about your dad? If she is old enough to tell what kind of dad he was to you could let her decide for herself if she want to met her granddad. Or you could only let your dad see her for a very short visit and be in the same room with them . My dad was very abusive to me emotionally and physically I would had let him see my daughter is was still alive . I would want him to know I was not the jackass he said I was , that I had a beautiful intelligent daughter that I raise on my own .
My dad was from Russia and me being hard of hearing was one of the worst thing .

15

So sorry for what you endured growing up and for the situation that you’re in now. I agree with some of the other posters above—it seems like a lot of what’s driving your indecision stems from your mother making you feel guilty. Subsequently, it sounds like while growing up your problem was with your father, your problem in the here-and-now is about a mother (and perhaps a brother) who doesn’t respect the boundaries that you’ve established for yourself and for your family, and who minimizes the abuse you experienced because it’s too hard to face that it was real and that it was damaging. Let me ask you this: other than alleviating the sense of obligation you feel to her (and the family at large), do you believe that any good will come of your father and daughter meeting? That is, do you think there’s a possibility that your father has the capacity to interact with your daughter in a positive way? That they could have a good relationship?

If this were the case, I’d say it might be worth considering allowing them to meet and to start thinking about how you would bring that about. But based on your OP, I do not get that feeling. It seems as though there has been no acknowledgement on the part of your father that his behavior towards you was wrong and hurtful. I see no indication that he would treat you any differently in the future. Based on what your brother reported after your wedding, there’s evidence to suggest that the first words out of his mouth would likely be about how you’re raising your daughter improperly or other such criticisms. Pretty much the last thing your daughter needs is to see you treated in the way you described you were treated by your father in the past. No, I take that back…the last thing she needs is to be treated that way herself, and there’s no indication that he won’t respond to your daughter in the same abusive manner that he used with you. If all of this is, in fact, the case, I see little purpose in allowing them to meet—other than to pacify your mother (which I don’t believe is necessarily a good thing, either).

That said, if you do allow him to interact with your child, I think it’s important that you take steps to ensure that it will be on your terms and that those terms will be respected by both your mother and your father. For starters, I’m thinking this would likely involve some guarantee that he will not criticize or belittle you in front of your child, that he will not criticize or belittle her, and that if you say the meeting is over—for any reason—then it’s over, no questions asked. Sadly, based on what you’ve described above, I cannot imagine your father being open to hearing what it is that you need from him, let alone being willing to deliver.

I wish you the very best of luck with this, however you choose to proceed.

16

You father is not functioning right it is all on him. If you can accept that then it will be a start in forgiving him. And forgiving someone is not becoming their punching bag you or your daughter do not have to put up with that. But forgiving him his faults is not for him but for you.

One of my “kids” came by a few months back. He was out visiting family and had just about all he could take of his father at the moment. So he came over to our house for a break and to get refreshed. He has also gone through therapy for reasons that you have described. So if you visit 1st set ground rules, if necessary write how you feel and why. Let him know if he breaks any one ground rule you may leave and take your daughter with you. Do not stay at your parents home! Stay with other family, friends, or at a hotel. Have a place to go to if necessary to get away or leave.

I have lived you daughters side of this story. My dad cut off all contact with his extended family. Cousins, aunts, and uncles. I asked him why the whole family and his answer was you could not be around the good ones with out being around the bad ones. For years us kids always wondered about the “family”. Years later we ended up getting invited to a family reunion where all the uncles had settled. Dad advised us not to go. But some of us kids did. And we learned a lot about our family. the biggest thing we learned was you could not see the good ones with out the ones you did not want to be around being there. That was about 20 years ago and I no longer go to the reunions.

Your daughter is to young to protect herself now so she needs you. But at sometime she can make her decision on who she wants to see. She needs your help. So if you do around your father if he does anything to hurt you then be prepared to leave. Time can change people and being a grandparent can really make a difference in people so your father may act properly. But keep the 1st visit short and if he makes any kind of hurtful comment around you daughter then separate him from her. Leave if necessary.

Do not let anyone guilt you into going to see your father. Make the decision based on what will be blest for you, your daughter, and your husband.

17

If it looks like shit, and it smells like shit, try not to let your kid step in it.

18

Similar to Apidistra, I might suggest letting your dad go ahead and meet your daughter.

Slightly greater than half of my extended family, growing up, were lifetime alcoholics. This is probably largely due to their mom, who is probably a bit bipolar and/or depressive so both raised them funky and probably passed on part of that genetic legacy to them.

I grew up meeting all of my relatives, including my cousins, who were in the process of being similarly messed up by their alcoholic parents. And, like Apidistra, there was no harm caused by meeting them. They acted a bit funky, gave crappy Christmas presents, weren’t very fun to hang around, etc. but at the same time I learned a little bit more about life. I learned to appreciate the parents I had been born to more, I learned the dangers of alcoholism, etc.

Not everything in life is fun, light, and fuzzy and it’s good to start getting some exposure to that as a child. Growing up in a land of all cloud fluff and unicorns is just going to lead to some hardship later in life or simply someone who is very clueless and useless for most things in the real world.

Just make sure that your daughter understands that Grandpa is a jerk and to tell you if he is ever mean to her. And tell your mom that your dad has to be on his best behavior if he wants to meet his grand-daughter. People, even alcoholics, bi-polars, and etc. can generally keep it cool for an evening. They generally understand that they’re assholes and accept (temporary) ultimatums like that with some grace.

19

like I said in a similar thread a day or two ago, blood is thicker than water.

but only up to a point.

your dad crossed that point a long time ago. I’m all about getting myself away from toxic people. you should do the same for your own sake and for that of your daughter’s.

and being Asian has nothing to do with it. we all have the capability of being great, or being enormous pieces of shit.

20

You may also want to consider how being around your dad again may affect you. What if he starts going off about how you’re a terrible parent, your daughter will never amount to anything, you are a dreadful wife and a terrible housekeeper, etc etc?

Quite frankly, there’s no way in hell I’d let Mom and Bro take your daughter to see your dad. You will have no idea of the interaction and no control.