Should I write my dad off? (SUPER LONG!)

In My Humble Opinion
1

Reading the rather depressing family threads has gotten me thinking about my own situation and what I should do. Perhaps Dopers can give me better insight about what to do.

My father and I have never had a good relationship. Growing up, I was always the problem child to him. I never made good enough grades. I cried too much as a child. I wasn’t smart enough. I wasn’t born a boy. I wasn’t my older brother. Nothing I did was good enough and he treated me like I wasn’t good enough for anything.

Needless to say, this did a number on my self-esteem and his preferential treatment of my brother and his disdain for me started my downward spiral into depression.

The trigger for my suicidal tendencies happened during my senior year of high school. My dad asked me to call AOL to cancel our membership. Being in school, participating in 6 extracurricular activities and holding 2 part-time jobs had me rather busy so I forgot. AOL sent the bill charging us for $40. My dad called me to his room and started on this tirade about how worthless I was, how disappointed he was in me and how I can’t do anything right. Other than that, I can’t remember the specifics other than him saying he wouldn’t pay for my college because I wasn’t worth it. I just remember saying sorry and saying that I’ll pay for the AOL bill. But no, he wouldn’t let it go. He kept going on and on about how irresponsible I was and how I’m such a horrible person I am, etc. etc.

I ran to my room and locked the door to cry in the privacy of my own room because if my dad ever sees me cry, it makes him madder and he yells even more because crying = weakness in my family. Well, yelling at me wasn’t enough so he ran to my room and pounded on the door until I opened it. Of course I was crying by that point which upset him even more. He cornered me and yelled at me for crying over something so stupid which had me crying even harder. I was in the fetal position bawling my eyes out when my mom came into the room. She literally had to grab my dad, yell at him to leave me alone and push him out of the room.

My mom then crouched down and put her hand on my shoulder while I was crying. It was the most touching thing she had done since I was 6 (this gives you an idea of how touchy feely my family is). My mom is normally so remote and unfeeling that the fact she would get down on the ground and touch me made me feel safer. She said that she would figure out a way to pay for my college and I didn’t have to depend on him.

She said this despite the fact that my dad made about three times what my mother made, and my mom was the one paying off the house and all the bills. My dad was only responsible for my and my brother’s college.

Somehow, my mom got through to him, and he paid for my college when I eventually left. My dad and I hadn’t spoken to each other the entire year leading up to me leaving for college. But once I started college, he started calling me at all hours of the day to tell me how worthless I was or how messed up I was. Ee even called me one time at 6:30am on a Saturday to tell me how stupid I was for not buying toner for my printer when it was on sale.

His attitude toward me has continued in this vein since then.

After I graduated college, I worked a few dead end jobs until I found my current one. I was so proud that I landed a position in a reputable company that I went and told my mom. Of course she told my dad. My dad approached me right after I started my new position and asked me how much I made. No pleasantries. No “how’s the new job going?” He cut to the chase and asked me how much I was making. I told him and his response was “that’s it?”

I haven’t spoken to my dad in a year and a half since then.

My fiance and I have been together since I was a senior in high school so he’s witnessed firsthand my dad verbally and emotionally abusing me. He was the one on the phone with me when I tried to slit my wrists because I felt like no one loved me and my family wanted me dead. He’s the one who has figuratively and literally saved my life.

Since I don’t talk to my dad anymore, I don’t get into my depressive moods nearly as much and I’ve stopped feeling suicidal since I stopped talking to him after I graduated from college.

The thing is, my fiance and I are getting married in a year. I don’t want my dad there. He has done nothing but hurt me all my life. My mom and brother keep telling me that’s how my dad is and don’t take it personally. They tell me I should invite him because we’re Asian, you just don’t do something like that. We have to keep appearances up. Just to give you a better idea of how messed up my family is, part of my brother’s wedding present to me is to keep my dad away from me on that day so he won’t yell at me or talk down to me which would make me cry. Great present, bro.

But even if I do invite my dad, what then? Do I invite him to see my children when I have them? I don’t want my dad near them because I fear he’ll treat them the way he treated me. I don’t want my children to ever feel the way I did growing up. Unfortunately my mom and brother think I’m being overly critical and that ‘that’s just how he is’. They tell me I should stop being so dramatic and that I’m making such a big deal out of nothing.

I’ve pretty much resigned myself to the fact that he has to be invited to the wedding. But I can’t bring myself to even think about having him around my future children. I want to just write him off and never talk to him again but my family said that’s being disloyal to the family. Wasn’t he disloyal to me by treating me like I was lower than dirt my entire life?

I just hurt inside and I don’t know what to do. My fiance said that it’s ultimately up to me, but he said if it were him, he’d just not talk to him again and keep him out of our lives, the rest of my family be damned.

What say you, Dopers? (And thank you for reading all of this.)

2

You say you’re getting pressured to invite him out of “cultural concerns.”

Well, just how assimilated are you? Are you half-in/half-out? Or can you be just as pathetically fucked up about family as the rest of us round-eyes?

I won’t go to my Dad’s house to visit him, because he lives in a garbage dump of his own making. There is literally no place to sit down, except for his recliner. The only time I can get together with him is at a restaurant, typically a buffet-type place like Hometown Buffet, which I refuse to eat in as everytime I do I get the runny shits for a day afterwards.

But I still talk to him.

Your Dad is the kinda guy I would’ve had it out with and been kicked out of the house around 15 or 16, and not looked back.

You Mom sounds like typical wilting Asian wife, dutifully obedient to her husband. You brother, #1 Son, never put the old man in check, never defended you? fuck him and his “favor” on your wedding day.

Ditch this fucking family and don’t look back.

3

Your family was being pretty disloyal to you by allowing all that shit to carry on and are still being disloyal to you by defending it now, you owe them one. Cut the guy loose, he’s dead weight you don’t need to carry. Seriously, you’re getting married, maybe going to have kids in a bit, you’re at the point where YOU get to define what your future life and family will be, why hobble it from the start?

4

Do what is best for you.

Fuck cultural norms. (You’ll have to excuse me, I try to avoid cursing, but I really wanted to emphasis the point)

If you don’t want him at your wedding, don’t have him. If you don’t want him near your children, don’t have him near your children.

This is your life, and your mental well being is all that matters. If they (your family) has to take the backlash for their problems, so be it. If he wasn’t willing to take the backlash for the results of his behaviors, he shouldn’t have taken them in the first place.

5

If I were you I would give your worthless father your post. And mine too. He is not a real man. He is a bully and a coward. Here’s what I have to say to him:

Hey Dad, I don’t know you, but you are a toxic human being. You have no face. You abused your daughter? You tried to emotionally cripple her? And you want to go to her wedding so you can save face in front of your relatives? But you are afraid to ask her nicely, so you put your wife and son up to it for you? What kind of low life coward are you? You think your daughter is worthless until it comes time to save face. Let’s find out how much it is worth to you. You sign a written contract and deposit into an escrow the sum of $500,000 to be paid to your daughter upon her marriage. If the escrow is funded, you can attend. After the event, she gets the money.

And you need to get yourself a long bit of psycho therapy, because you are one very hurtful person.

And don’t have your mother or brother give this to him. Do it yourself. And invest in a nice house with the money. If he isn’t worthless, he will do this. Remember, this is about his worth, not yours. If he has any honor, he will realize that this is the only way to regain his face. He can’t help what he did in the past, but he can be better in the future and make an amends that shows he means it, that shows what he thinks of worth.

6

You don’t need advice, you already know the answer. Unless something changes with him he will continue to berate you through adulthood and try to direct the way you raise your family.

forgot to add, the guys a dick. It’s always nice to hear other people say that.

7

Thank you everyone for your replies. It makes me feel less like I’m betraying my family and more like I’m trying to maintain my mental stability.

ExTank, I was born and raised in the U.S., but because of my dad’s job, we were allowed to go back to the homeland to visit family a few times a year. We’ve done this since I was 4. So your description of half in/half out is very apt. I don’t know how else to describe what I am.

My dad is my dad and I don’t know how else a dad should be. Well, that’s not true. I watched a whole lot of Full House when I was a kid and the episodes always made me cry because I wanted a family like theirs. Pretty pathetic, huh?

I think my mom and brother are just tired with having to deal with him, that’s why they don’t want me to rock the boat. They want to let sleeping dogs lie and hope he won’t get into one of his rages. But I think they have been standing up for me lately because since I graduated, my dad hasn’t talked to me since. I’m pretty sure my brother had a talk with him (or flat out threatened him) and that’s why I’m being left alone now. I think it helped that I told them I was in counseling through my high school (thank god for free mental health facilities!). I also told them that when I described the things my dad was doing, my counselor tried to call CPS on him, but couldn’t press charges because you can’t prove mental abuse. I think that’s what caused my mom and brother to finally stand up for me. But it’s still hurtful and bothers me that I don’t know how long this peace will last. It takes just one insult from him to reduce me to tears. I don’t want to live in fear of him anymore.

ombzebras and Trocisp, thank you for your support. I know it’s easy to say “write him off! He was a horrible father!” but I can’t help but shake the feeling that my dad was doing the best that he could. From his behavior, I know he has some type of mental illness himself. Of all things my dad has done, at least he was always there to take me to the doctor when I was younger and he did pay for my college. Though when my mom brings these points up, I tell her that it’s an advance for my therapy I’m going to have to pay for because of him. Looking at the prices for some therapists, I think I may not be far off.

[Just an aside, when I listed the last paragraph’s points about my dad doing some good in my life to my fiance, he told me that an alcoholic who beats their kids, but buys the groceries doesn’t make them a good parent. Perhaps my warped sense of duty to my family doesn’t allow me to see things clearly.]

8

Thank you The Second Stone and magiver for your replies as well. I very much appreciate the sentiment of your replies.

The Second Stone, I tried to talk to him a few times already about our relationship and how I wish we could improve it. He said he has to be hard on me because he was a really bad kid growing up and he was doing that to me to ensure that I don’t end up like him. If I gave him your response or even my response, he’d just start yelling and it would all go to hell.

Reading your responses is making me cry because I wish my own family were as worried about me as anonymous strangers on a message board. I guess this is why I’m marrying my fiance. He’s the best thing that’s ever happened to me and with him, I can create my own healthy and happy family.

I wish life were easier and we didn’t have to make these hard decisions.

9

This is just me, but I tried to write my own Dad off in my younger, more rebellious years, but luckily we resolved our differences way before he died (in my care in the hospital I work at).

Speaking from experience, I would say don’t. No matter what the difficulties may be at present, you may be needing each other at some time in the future.

If you cannot find some common ground now, then at least leave the door open for a change of heart in the future.

Q

10

I’ll have to agree with everyone else. Right now, you have to realize that you do not have a father. There is a person married to your mother who had the opportunity to be a father to you, and HE chose not to be a father to you.

Did you get that? He made the choice. Not you. You need to focus on building a healthy family. You will have a husband and children for the both of you to be loving parents to. Is there a place for your mother and brother to be included in this matrix?

I think the choices that they have made in the past will have to be your guide to deciding what part they are to play in your future.

Remember you can not be made to feel guilty for the actions and choices other people have made. The man who could have been your father and your children’s grandfather made his decisions long ago. Not you.

11

Thank you Quasimodem and D-bear.

I’ll respond with more in the morning. I get more emotional late at night and my fiance is encouraging me to go to bed so I don’t feel so raw when I read your replies.

Good night everyone.

12

Good Night, Penchan.

For what it’s worth, I think you’re a great son. I wish the best for you.

Q

13

I’m very sorry you had such a nasty father.

You are right to think about this carefully, because it is a big day.
For you and your fiance.
Not for your Dad, even though he thinks it is.

You know you have a few choices.

You can refuse to invite him, which means:

  • he won’t be there to spoil things for you
  • there will be tension amongst your family

You can invite him, but with conditions (you may not want him to make a speech, for example). This means:

  • there will be tension for you
  • he saves face with family

I don’t know the people concerned well enough to make a recommendation.
(I know a friend of mine had a poor father, but decided to let him come to the wedding. As mentioned above the father was not allowed to speak.)
What I am sure about is that you and your fiance are the future, that you deserve a happy day (and a happy life) and that your wishes come first (and second and third).
Talk it over with people and do what is right for you and your fiance.

14

Penchan, you have already shown great strength in being able to keep your distance from your father. You are not weak at all.

Your father was cruel. Even though he may have a mental illness or have been abused in his childhood, these are reasons, not excuses.

I know that I can’t fully comprehend the importance of the father’s presence at your wedding according to Asian tradition. But there is much more to being a father than siring a child. Your “father” has not earned the right to be there by any tradition. What he did was criminal. Just because you can’t prove it doesn’t mean that it wasn’t so.

On the day of your wedding – a day that is a great symbol of new choices – do you want to choose to honor your cultural traditions? Your family’s wishes? The man who abused you?
Or do you want to honor your marriage, your husband and yourself?

If he did something to mar your beautiful day, you will have that memory for the rest of your life.

I had rather slip away with my fiance and marry quietly and peacefully than even entertain the idea of having the father present.

Unless he has come to you and admitted how horribly he treated you and asked for your forgiveness, I wouldn’t think twice about it. As a grown woman you hae the right to be firm with your family. Your are not disrespecting them. You are respecting yourself. The more self-respect and independence that you can build, the less distructive depression will be.

My mother is almost 96. She lives one hundred miles from me. Although I talk to her each week on the phone for an hour or more, I visit her only once a year on her birthday. It took me about 55 years to be able to draw that boundary. You are fortunate to see the necessity of it at a much younger age. Her behavior was and is still sometimes much like that our your father.

I still believe in leaving doors open. But I make sure that I can shut them and lock them quickly if I need to. There is the option of reopening another time.

A word about depression and suicide. A lot of depression is treatable with medication and counselling or supervision. You might be surprised how much of it can melt away! It is the thoughts of suicide which concern me. Always have a plan in advance for a “safe place” to go if you ever feel that way again. It may be a hospital emergency room or an emergency phone call to your doctor. Just put yourself on automatic and follow your plan. Go and tell someone and be safe. Just do it!

Your father is a sick man. He should have had professional help long ago. You may feel sorry for him. That is understandable. Sometimes you may even love him at the same time that you hate him. That is strangely normal too.

If you do choose not to have him at the wedding, tell your family that you will not discuss your decision further. It is not up for debate. Then stick to it.

No matter what choice you make, have a wonderful wedding and a loving and laughing marriage!

I wish you peace.

15

There’s your answer.

16

There is an ancient Divine commandment- “Honor thy father and thy mother”.

You’ve done that by not kicking him in the balls. You’re totally in the clear now. Have a happy wedding WITHOUT him AND WITHOUT anyone else who keeps pressuring you about him.

17

Dont invite him,dont let other people try to pressure you into doing things that make you unhappy(its your life not theirs) and then get on with your life.
Its a new start and a time to shake off the past.
It will be all too easy to sink into self pity when the going gets hard on occassion(as all lives do)but resist the temptation.

People pick their friends but they cant pick their family.

18

I think at some point you need to stand up to your father and tell him that you will no longer accept his abuse. Through a letter or email is fine, since face to face would probably be overwhelming. Sure, he’ll get pissed off and angry and be a jerk, but just picture him as a teeny-tiny little man about three inches tall. You’re holding him by the back of his collar at arm’s length. He’s screaming and shouting and waving his tiny fists at you, and he has absolutely no power.

Then keep him at arm’s length. Not out of fear–just until and unless he can be respectful. That could take decades, or it might never happen. And if the rest of the family can’t respect your need to not be a human punching bag, then they’re contributing to the abuse and need to be told that your well-being is much more important than anyone’s pride.

Standing up to all of this is not going to be easy, and sometimes it will feel downright crappy. But there is also a strong dose of self-esteem to be had for protecting yourself, and just keep reminding yourself that you have every right to not be battered. If these people were not your relatives, I certainly hope you wouldn’t even have to think twice about protecting yourself. Sharing genetics isn’t enough of a justification to allow someone to do damage to you.

19

Your father sounds like my husband’s father. He does have a mental illness, true - he has bipolar disorder but he refuses to get treated because he loves his raging manic highs too much. So he knows he can be a real asshole but refuses to do anything about it, which means I don’t cut him any slack for what a jerk he is. Seems like your dad has a similar idea about how he acts, too. Oh, my FIL is Italian descent (his parents came over as young adults) so he’s got similar ideas about the value of a son over a daughter (they had several girls before my husband came along), family importance, ‘face’, etc.

He physically abused his kids, plus he would go into lectures or screaming rages for literally hours over one bad grade on a report card, and any apparent lapse in attention would just make it worse.

My husband says he became who he was not because of his father’s discipline, but in spite of it, and to some extent to spite him. He didn’t go into law because that’s not what he wanted to do, he didn’t marry a Catholic Italian woman, and finally, he decided that having children was not something he wanted to do. Furthermore, he went and took care of emotional and physical issues that his dad ignored in his own self.

However, my FIL and my husband’s conflicts weren’t nearly as volatile as late in the relationship as yours - probably at least partially because my FIL got scared when my husband (as a teen) caught his dad’s punch, and really began standing up for himself - and my husband does love his mother a lot and wants to see her. I suspect he’d want to completely toss out the relationship if it was as bad as in your situation.

My first impulse is to say don’t invite him. If you just can’t bring yourself to do that, somehow, then he gets told that he will not make any speeches, he will be escorted at all times by your brother who will not allow him to make any disrespectful comments about you, and from that point on unless he makes major amends, he will be completely written out of your life.

Your father claims he had to be tough on you because he was so bad as a kid. He fails to realize that there was actually a kind but firm middle path that he could have followed; it might have been more difficult but it wouldn’t have inflicted brutal pain on the spirit of his daughter.

20

Not just no - HELL NO!!!

Penchan, I wept reading your post. We’re going through the same thing. My step-daughter’s biological male parent is an asshole, and he has put her through the same sort of thing all her life. He’s supposed to pay half of her college tuition; she had problems last semester and her grades weren’t so hot. Needless to say, she got a big, steaming ration of how worthless she was and how he wasn’t going to waste money on college for her. She came home in tears, but in a way it was cathartic - she now plans to never speak to him again.

You need to do the same, IMNSHO. What he has done to you over the years is abuse, and there is no reason whatsoever for him to be involved in your life for a second longer. Plan your wedding without him and tell your mother that he is not invited and if he shows up, you’ll have him removed from the premises.

Then go out and have a great life. Remember the old adage: the best revenge is living well.