What would YOU do in this situation?

In My Humble Opinion
1

Before I describe the situation I just want to make it clear I am not asking for advice on what to do- I have already made my decisions and views on the situation. I am posting this here to have an open discussion and to hear what others would do.

Okay, so in 2007 I went into a psychiatric hospital for 8months. Around the same time another girl was admitted and we became friends. Lets call her friend A. We obviously spent a lot of time together, all day every day for 8months, and became quite close. Half way through our admission another girl was admitted. Lets call her friend B. I should say we all have very different problems, but the three of became good friends, probably because we were the only young females who were capable of conversation in the hospital.

After 8months friend A and I were both discharged, and friend B remained in hospital under a section. I moved back home to a different part of the country (i went into hospital where i was at university), and friend A moved into a house near the hospital. All three of us kept in touch via texting, phoning and I went up to visit them both quite a lot.

However throughout 2008 I began to realise that my friendship with friend A was not healthy. Our conversations began to only revolve around our illnesses and we didn’t ever do anything fun together, or even talk about anything unrelated to ourselves. During this time I stayed good friends with Friend B while she was in hospital despite the fact she was very very ill. Also, friend A and B started a romantic relationship together during the summer of 2008.

Things came to a point in September 08 when i realised i didn’t want to be friends with friend A anymore. She had started repeatedly ringing me saying she had taken X amount of pills, or done something else to try and kill herself. I would tell her to go to hospital and let me know what happens. It didn’t anger me, it more upset me and make me feel sad that she was using our friendship in that way. Particularly as I am living hours away and there is nothing i can do to help her. And she would always ring up laughing about it as though it was a joke. Attempting suicide, for whatever reason or in whatever way, is no joke. I also found it very triggering for my own illness.

So after that I stopped contacting her and didn’t answer her phone calls. Through staying in touch with friend B (who i should add I feel I have a much more healthy relationship with) I found out friend A had gone back into hospital under a section in october.

In December friend A sent me a message saying she had guessed I didn’t want to know her anymore. I replied explaining how I felt and that it wasn’t that I didn’t want to know her as a person but that her illness was too upsetting and triggering for me while I’m trying to get myself as well as possible. She promised me that she is on new medication now, was feeling better than ever and was about to be discharged from hospital, and that things would be different for us from now on. I simply replied that that all sounded great and I would keep my fingers crossed for her. I wasn’t convinced.

During all of this time Friend B has been in hospital, and is still in hospital today. Friend A was discharged again from hospital last friday.

Last weekend i was in London visiting some friends. While I was watching the Cirque Du Soleil on Saturday Friend B sent me text message saying that Friend A had sent her a message saying “I love you, but I’m going to die tonight”. Friend B was deeply distressed and was asking me what she should do. I told her there was nothing she could do, it wasn’t her responsibility and any response to Friend A would encourage her behaviour further.

On Sunday I then got a message from Friend B saying that Friend A had died through suicide. She had received a message from Friend A’s phone telling her but it had been sent by A’s mum. We were all upset and I felt a mixture of guilt, sadness and worry for B. B is going through a court trial at the moment where the man who abused her has been accussed of 19 counts of rape.

However, on monday, Friend B spoke to me and said that she had been talking to one of the nurses about how upset she is, and the nurse said in confusion that she had just seen friend A walking up the road with her headphones in her ears. Obviously friend A, or someone, hadn’t been telling the truth. A went back into hospital, though now on a different ward to B, and B found out A had made up the message that was supposedly from her mum and hadn’t done anything at all on Saturday.

Friend B is now asking me what she should do.

So when does a friend who has serious psychiatric problems cross the line? How much should her behaviour be excused because of her problems?

I went through moments of anger towards A and worry for B, and now simply feel sadness for both of them. Sad that A could do that to B, and to me, and that she doesn’t realise how wrong it is. It is not the attempting suicide that bothers me. Not at all, because I understand that totally. It is sending those sorts of messages to your friends and the lying that bothers me. But is that all part of the illness that you have to take into account when you know someone who is going through that?

I did send a message to A asking what was going on but heard nothing back, and since then have decided I will have no further contact with her whatsoever, and have deleted her number from my phone. I will keep in contact with B, but I don’t really expect to see her again and am sure our communicating will fizzle out eventually.

But what would you say to either of them? Would you stay involved in the situation or with either, or not?

2

Too much unneeded drama. Take a very long break from both of them.

3

wait wait… so friend A did not actually commit suicide? that sucks so much on so many different levels. I’m sorry you’re having to deal with all of this - this would be too much for pretty much anyone even if they had no personal problems of their own whatsoever. I can’t even imagine how much this must suck for you.

As for advice, or rather: as for what I’d do in your situation: I think you’d do best to put your own interest first, regardless of whatever urges to support your friends you might have. It looks to me that this friendship is taking its toll on you and that is unhealthy. Also, in the end, you cannot be very supportive if you’re in such a bad place yourself, I guess. So I’m with Crafter_Man: take a break, at least from A but probably also from B.

That said, you write you already made up your mind. I’m curious what you decided to do and why - of course, if it goes against what others write here then screw them, it’s your life and you’re the only one who has to deal with your decisions and their consequences.

4

Say nothing to A. Tell B to say nothing to A. Don’t let yourself get sucked into the illness.

Regards,
Shodan

5

Some random thoughts…

I’m a bit confused that Friend B is asking for your advice, but you don’t expect to continue communicating with Friend B.

I don’t think it’s about excusing Friend A’s behaviour due to mental illness because the problem is deeper than that. It’s not that her behaviour upsets you, it’s that her behaviour is unhealthy for you to be around, given your own mental health issues.

That said, I think this problem is all about boundaries. How close should you all get to each other, how involved in each others lives should you be and where do you draw the line?

Given that you don’t seem to have too many issues being around Friend B, I see no reason not to continue that friendship, within healthy boundaries. If Friend B wants to continue being a friend of Friend A, then you need to make it clear to Friend B that you are not friends with Friend A and cannot provide support to Friend B with regards to Friend A. Friend B needs to accept that boundary in order to continue being your friend.

{ETA} And I realise I’ve just written all that in terms of providing advice, which you didn’t ask for. Please read it as being what I would do if I were in your situation.

6

If it was me, I’d certainly cease all contact with A. There’s illness, then there’s melodrama and manipulation, and A’s actions seem to lean towards the latter. For my own mental health, I’d be keeping well away from that.

I think I’d maintain some contact with B, but also be looking to make sure that I had other social groups to spend time with. Getting obsessed with other people’s issues isn’t healthy, and, as you said, there’s little you can do in and of the moment anyway. Branching out would give me a wider perspective to realise the destructiveness of what was going on - and at the end of the day I know that’s what I need to avoid getting caught up in the detailed emotional atmosphere that can be generated.

Outside of the hypothetical, I wish you every luck and support in your continuing drive to get yourself better. Don’t let others drag you down.

7

I would send A a final message saying you are breaking off all contact and why. As for B, I’d be tempted to break off all contact with her too. However, if you think you can have a healthy relationship with her without A’s added drama, I would tell B that you’re willing to continue a relationship with her only on the condition that she either cut off contact with A too, or at least leave you the hell out of. If B continues a relationship with A and starts dragging you in, just cut her out too and don’t look back.

I really don’t think a psychiatric hospital is the best place to make friends.

8

I’m assuming that A was hospitalized with Borderline Personality Disorder. If that’s the case, her therapy doesn’t seem to be working.

Anyhow, I would never speak to A again. Psychiatric illness or no psychiatric illness, that’s a really douchy thing to do.

As far as B goes, I suppose you could still try to be supportive from a distance; however, if B is still in contact with A you’re going to be sucked into the drama.

I think I would start trying to have friendships/relationships with mentally healthy people. Really, if you’re trying to get your head in a good space, dealing with people that are mentally unwell probably isn’t going to help. While you may have had very good relationships with A and B while in hospital, you’ve now moved on to a different phase of your life and your choice of relationships should reflect that. At some point in the future if B is released and doing much better perhaps you could go for a coffee, but right now I think I would keep my distance.

9

Unfortunately I would cease communicating with B as well because it will be “drama by proxy”. Friend A will get to you via B (she probably knows this too.)

I’d advise B that A’s manipulation is unacceptable and unhealthy. B probably really doesn’t need to have her emotions dragged around all over the place, but stop short of suggesting B should cut contact with A (it has to be her decision). Maybe A has faked her death in order to cut contact with everyone for her own reasons, if that’s the case, then everyone should leave her alone and will be better for it.

Even though you may understand that her illness is behind a lot of A’s shenanigans, they are still unacceptable. Do not respond. As for B, tell her that you are taking a time out from socializing, in a general and ambiguous sense so you don’t imply that B is a problem in your life, in order to get healthy.

10

I Have Hippos, please go to the nearest white craziness phone. Paging I Have Hippos to the nearest white craziness phone.

If the call came across like that, I wouldn’t answer it - and I don’t think you would, either. That’s what the call sounds like to me, and I would avoid it as much as humanly possible.

Speaking as someone who has been hospitalized (though not for nearly as long), my thoughts on friends from the hospital run about the same as many ex-cons’ on friends from jail. Yes, they were important to you then. Yes, they deserve some level of courtesy for helping you through a bad patch. NO, it’s NOT worth risking your life, your health, and your new good habits to try to maintain a friendship with them on the outside.

That being said, I would not contact A in any way again, nor would I allow her to contact me. If she needs a friend, she needs to find a support system of her own, not cling to me because we were in an enforced environment together. Given the risk she would pose to my own reintegration, I would treat her like the bubonic plague.

B… is touchier. If I could have a relationship with B that did not involve talking to, talking about, or thinking about A, then I would. That seems highly unlikely, though, given the circumstances. Most likely I would tell B that I was no longer able to think about or talk about A without putting my own coping mechanisms under strain, tell her we can’t have contact while she’s in contact with A, and wish her the very best in her relationship and her life. It feels like a shitty thing to do, to make a person choose between two friends, but it’s practical. If I went crazy trying to help B, it would be worse than just cutting her off to begin with.

I don’t excuse people for being calculating, manipulative bastards just because they’re crazy. My policy is that I am crazy, and doing everything I can not to let it impinge upon the people around me. I expect other crazy people who want to be my friends to do the same - and if they are in a bad enough place that they simply can’t prevent it hurting other people, they need to be in a hospital. It’s a harsh line, but it is the boundary I need to keep me from inflicting my crazy on other people, so I enforce it.

Now, all of that essay being said, I hope that whatever choice you’ve made for dealing with either or both of them works out for you, and that you can have an easier time dealing with yourself and them from here on.

11

What happened to the romance?

Anyway, A is definitely to be avoided, and if B is still in contact with A, then B too must sadly be dropped. For your own good.

12

I feel a bit like cutting off contact with both would be abandoning B, which I’m not comfortable with, even though I think it is the right thing to do.

I think I feel that B can still be ‘saved’ from A, however I realise that bringing ‘saving’ in to it is quite inappropriate. I learnt that the hard way!

If I was using my brain, I would cut them both off. Your own life could be ruined by being dragged in to it.

13

Just walk away from the whole situation. Period.

Joe

14

Yes she was, and is. Although is in denial about and simply states she has ‘self harm issues’. Mind you not many people I’ve met willingly admit they have BPD. Friend B has psychosis related problems. As far as I know, neither have actual therapy, they are just in hospital on lots of medication.

I can’t remember how long it lasted, and don’t know much of the details, but I think they decided to go back to being ‘friends’ because of several reasons-they realised a relationship like that didn’t work in hospital (and wasn’t allowed), their psychiatrist told them to end it, and A repeatedly sent B sexually graphic messages that were just plain disgusting and that drove her up the wall.

Faking your own death is beyond a terrible thing to do. I didn’t even imagine someone I know would do that. I have definitely no contact with A now, and will never again, and to be honest had made that decision last september. Now I guess I have just finalised it by deleting her from my phone.

B is asking me for advice because I am one of the few people that she knows who knew A as well as she does. I don’t expect, or want, to keep communicating with B because I have moved on so much from when I was with her in hospital. I am now recovering, live in a different area of the country, have lots of healthy happy friends and a boyfriend…my life is now completely different. B, however, is still in hospital and is pretty much in the same position she was in when I first met her. A friendship can not grow or even be maintained under these circumstances, but I do like B and care about her so I don’t want to hurt her feelings by ignoring her. I just won’t be the one to make any contact with her and I think she will eventually stop contacting me too.

But what I can’t stop thinking about is how much a psychiatric illness excuses behaviour? Obviously what A did was unexcusable, but I can imagine her saying ‘‘yes it was awful, but its part of my illness’’. That doesnt make what she did okay, but how much is it a symptom of her BPD?

15

Of course she would say 'It’s a symptom of my BPD." One of the hallmarks of BPD is refusing to accept responsibility for the stupid/mean/self-destructive things that you do.

Personally, I think about this issue like this: If I am a professional - a therapist/counsellor, potentially it is my job to deal with people like A (unless I purposfully do not treat BPD folks in my practice, or whatever). I have a mandate to deal with that person’s crap.

However, if I’m NOT working in that capacity. I’m a friend, or a coworker, or a family member, I have no responsibility, whatsoever, to put up with that sort of bullshit. It will not help the person with BPD. If anything it will give them one more person to focus their crazyness on. FWIW, BPD is one of the only diagnoses that I feel this way about because dealing with it is so soul sucking for the untrained that IMHO, it can actually hurt your mental health to do so.

16

Yes that is very true I guess. Are you a therapist?

17

I’d move on, for I don’t like drama queens and people who conduct their lives so that they are always in crisis.

“Don’t stick your dick in crazy, son,” is an adage that can apply to non-sexual relationships as well.

18

Are you wearing a blue body stocking with a bright red S on the bodice?

Can you light fires with laser beams you shoot from your eyes?

Do glowing green rocks cause you to grow faint?

If the answers to these questions is no, you are not Superman. In which case you have a limited amount of energy, both physcial and emotional. You cannot save everyone who needs help. From the details you have offered, you cannot save Friend A from herself, nor Friend B from Friend A if she is determined to go down with her. You are not being a bitch or selfish to remove yourself from the situation; you are being mortal. That’s allowed.

19

No, but I play one on TV!

Heh, actually I’m going to be starting my master’s degree in counseling in the next while. Honestly, the fear of having to spend all day with BPD patients delayed me a lot. However, it is possible to just refer those patients away.

And before anyone gets irate with me - I realized those with BPD need and deserve treatment and therapy - however, I don’t feel that I have the wherewithal to provide good care to people with that particular affliction.

20

Your mental health comes first, OP. A’s dramatic ploy is justification for never talking to her again—but you already had plenty of permission to break contact.

The same advice applies to B: she doesn’t need A making her life worse. That’s her call, but she asked you. I think you’re out of your depth here—if B persists in asking for advice, I’d tell her to talk to a psychologist/psychiatrist. A has severe issues, B has severe issues, and any non-professional would be in over his head trying to advise.