Along with that, very tight parental oversight. No 1 on 1 dating. Keep out of each others cars. No drinking. No being home alone.
Basically remove the chance for a situation like this to come up.
They are teens.
They do stupid things.
She described a sexual assault. I guess we can quibble over terminology, but there are degrees and nuance to sexual assault. I recognize that it’s popular to say that they are all the same, but are they really? This isn’t to say that any sexual assault is acceptable or should be tolerated, but to pretend that there aren’t degrees is disingenuous. This was not the act of a serial predator and I think that it is quite a stretch to think that it is. The fact that it stopped when his drunken friend ‘jumped on his back’ tells me that using the same word to describe this action and Richard Gillmore’s actions is a mistake. If we want to get technical, in my state he was not guilty of sexual assault at all. He was guilty of first degree sexual abuse which is a minor felony. Depending upon her testimony exactly, he might not even be guilty of that and just be guilty of simple assault and/or battery depending upon which parts of her body he actually touched and whether it caused injury.
Again what the victim described is attempted rape. Yes, I recognize that a 17-year-old boy may not see rape as a huge offense. That doesn’t make it not a huge offense. And it doesn’t make it better that the victim is “only” 2 years younger.
You have no fucking idea if it was the act of a serial predator. Again, she described someone who got her into a room with his friend, turned up the music to hide any noises she might make and put his hand over her mouth to quiet her while he attempted to get her clothes off.
Do not minimize this behavior, call it “feeling up” someone as if they were on some friendly date, or act like he stopped because he realized he was going too far. No.* What she describes is someone who would have raped her if he could. What she describes is someone who wanted to rape her and was trying to rape her.*
So getting back to the topic, what would you do if your 17 year old son did this?
Correct. All I was responding to was the fact there was an added bit of outrage because she was 15, which makes way more of a difference if the offender was 40 instead of just 17.
But rape is rape (even if attempted) and is not right at ANY age.
This is such a tough topic. Of course, sexual assault, rape, sexual abuse, etc. is awful and should never be minimized.
But…I was in high school from 1976-1979. When I look back, there were many boys that could have been arrested for sexual abuse or assault (and they were usually the BMOC’s). Teenage boys would push the limits and girls were too afraid or shy to say “no” and just went along with it. It happened all the time during outdoor parties, after dances, parking at makeout spots. A lot of the time alcohol was involved. Back then it was just the way it was. (And no, it wasn’t right) I don’t ever remember any girls coming forward other than talking among themselves. The boys bragged about it in the locker room. I wonder now with the Me Too Movement if any of those men think about those high school days and wonder if they’re going to get called out.
My son would be headed, with me and a lawyer, to the police station. Where he would confess his actions and hopefully sincere regret.
If the girl wants to press charges, then we go from there. If she doesn’t want that, then it ends with whatever the police choose to do.
Either way, he’s going to the police station. That very day. He WILL be writing her an abject, unmincing apology, free of excuses like drinking, a party, bad environment.
If I firmly believe I have raised an upstanding young man incapable of such a thing, then I have been seriously, egregiously mistaken. In which case this young man does not need protection, what he desperately NEEDS is consequences.
Whatever those consequences amount to, he chose them by his actions. ALL attempts to shield him from his own bad actions, in the face of criminal assault, would be shameful parenting, in the extreme, in my opinion.
I don’t find it worse for someone to be raped by a 40 year old than a 17 year old.
Its actually very likely the act of a serial predator. Guys who get drunk and rape their dates (or try to) don’t tend to do it once. There are probably other women out that that this happened to, who are keeping their mouths shut in the interest of their own safety. Perhaps they too were drunk - and therefore think they deserved it. Perhaps he was “some guy at a party” and they don’t remember his last name at this point in time - “it was something like Brent or Brett or Brad maybe, I didn’t ever know his last name”
And, why does it make a difference? Should we put a murderer on the Supreme Court if he only killed one person? “Well, he isn’t a serial killer”
And if he did it “well its only a minor felony” - we can’t find one guy to fill one of twelve elite positions on the bench who hasn’t committed even one minor FELONY? Everyone has sped or parked in a no parking zone - but I don’t think everyone has committed a minor felony. Heck, in my state if he was convicted of that felony - even the minor one of sexual assault - he would be stripped of his right to vote - but we’ll let him sit on the bench.
This is a question about what you would do to your 17 year old son and not whether or not that should disqualify someone else from the Supreme Court. Whether or not that should disqualify Kavanaugh is likely a fruitless argument to have as it has much more to do with your politics than it does with his actions. The question is how would you treat your son that did this. I do not see this action the same as I see murder. If it were my son, I would likely see this as a single event unless I knew this to be his character, in which case it’s a different story. I don’t think as a parent I would disqualify my son from a future Supreme Court gig due to this, but I’m his Dad, so that is hardly unexpected.
I was in high school from 1998-2002, and no. I don’t believe things changed THAT much from your days until mine. Kavanaugh’s (alleged) actions are not normal teenage behavior. Normal teenage boys try to convince girls to do things with words, and possibly the most subtle of actions. They do not put their hand over her mouth and rip her clothes off of her. Guys in my high school that bragged about their exploits bragged about consensual things, not assault.
A greater demonstration of how lay people often misunderstand legal terms. No, she did not. Attempted rape, like all attempts, needs the specific intent to rape.
Do the girl’s parents know? Because I feel like it should be her right to come out about it on her own time.
Since I have the luxury of thinking about this rationally from my recliner as I type this: Definitely, withdraw him from that school. And get him into some in-house treatment center if possible.
I have NO idea how to reconcile with the girl. I’m tempted to say write her a letter offering any support she needed. And inform her she will NEVER be seeing him again (Unless it’s in court). Still though, I’m afraid even that might traumatize her more.
Ack! What a nightmare to think about.
If I were in the US, I would hesitate to get the law involved. Those laws were intended to apply only to poor blacks anyway. Since my kids grew up in Canada where underage offenders are treated much more humanely I might just report it to the police.
I have no idea what you just typed meant (poor blacks?!).
I would say frog-march him to the police station, but in this case I will say it’s up to the girl involved, up to and including whether she wants to tell her parents. A few things need to be established: her physical well-being, what she wants to do, and that we as a family will support her no matter what she decides, including if she wants to bring charges.
I say this NOT because I don’t think my son should face charges, but because I worked with victims of sexual crimes for several years as a crisis volunteer. The choice should be hers.
The very instant I intend a solely legal definition of the words I speak, I’ll let you know by saying that I intend a solely legal definition of the words I speak.
You mean the instant when you employed the name of a criminal act you mean?:rolleyes:
Apparently you (as well as Hari Seldon) live in places where hyperbole substitutes for fact.
Bearing in mind I’m not a lawyer and I don’t know what the penalties were in Maryland for the act Kavanaugh is alleged to have committed, back in the '80s), current Maryland law makes it seem as if it might qualify for a charge of fourth-degree sexual assault, which is punishable by up to a year in prison and a fine.
Laws on sexual assault vary from state to state, and if you have some sort of privileged status you might very well wind up with no prison time at all if convicted. For instance, CNN in the wake of the Brock Turner affair found 33 cases where NCAA Division I athletes faced criminal charges over sexual assault. One-third had punishment involving no jail time. In another, widely publicized case at U. of Missouri allegedly involving multiple victims, the football player in question did 4 months in jail.
If you want to cite a place where there’s uniform harsh punishment for sexual offenses, try the U.K., where those convicted twice of “very serious” sex crimes get a mandatory sentence of life imprisonment.
In your opinion would it be best to reach out to the daughter? Or let her reach out to you?