That “attempted rape” is used in a legal sense that has a specific definition in no way means that the phrase is solely a legal one. Just as “murder” has a legal definition and yet I and others use it all the time.
Like I said, I’ll let you know when I intend the legal meaning. Don’t you worry!
Upon reading the OP it promptly crossed my mind that I don’t think it would be good to turn my kid in to the police if the girl doesn’t want to press charges. I’m shaky on law, so maybe he should be prosecuted even over her objections, but I wouldn’t want to do that to her if she doesn’t want to. But if she does want to press charges I would do my damnedest to support her, up to and including doing my best to encourage my son to man up and take his lumps to the point of pleading guilty, and even testifying against him if he pleads innocent by relating his confession to me.
So the first step is contacting the girl. I like the idea of doing it by a letter. It would let me lay out precisely how far I’d be willing to go to support her, while also making it clear that if she wants to forget it and never hear about this again, I’d restrain myself to handling my boy personally without involving her with the courts.
Do you have evidence that these sorts of sexual assaults are the result of mental illness? Most experts I’m aware of don’t feel that’s the case, and that the vast majority of such assaults are performed by youths without significant mental illness. Antisocial personality traits, yes. But that’s not a mental illness, nor is it amenable to modern psychiatric treatment. Counselling, sure. But not Pshrink meds.
It sounds like alot of you are going for a combination of #2 where you talk to the girls parents and find out what they want to do and #4, sending him away so he gets therapy and the girl never has to see him again.
You know, that also would be tough because it might be the girl hasnt told anyone yet and if you talk to the parents and they didnt know, who knows what might come down.
It could be they would get mad at her. Who knows? Maybe she had snuck out of the house or lied and said she was somewhere else that night.
I would definitely take my kid out of school and send him away.
I understand the power of love. I would die for my husband. But rape under the conditions the OP has described is one of those things that kills love’s ability to forgive. I know I would probably kill my husband for committing a rape. I imagine I would feel the same duty toward my son.
I’d think “What a tragedy, that I no longer have a son” while I call the police. The fucker as described in the OP would be dead to me, and get what’s coming to him. With me as a witness for the prosecution, given his confession.And I will not be paying for a lawyer for him, and after the cops take him away to juvie or prison, I will never have contact with him again.
If my seventeen year old son attacked a fifteen year old girl, I would do as much as I could to protect him from the consequences of the crime he committed.
If my fifteen year old daughter was attacked by a seventeen year old boy, I would do as much as I could to see him punished for the crime he committed.
This is why it’s a good idea to keep parents out of the decisions made by the legal system. Nobody can be impartial about their children.
Do you see “smacking the boy around” as a routine thing that can be dismissed as “nothing”?
Which is why I would try to contact the girl herself, not her parents.
I bow to you. You prolly know way more than I do about it. But if it were my son, I would want to know if he has a personality disorder or some psychosis that could be treated. And counselling, for sure.
I guess there’s no way not to distort the discussion by it becoming about Kavanaugh, so why not just invite it. But it does heavily distort the discussion. It superimposes the largely politically motivated* perception of that case.
In a realistic general hypothetical case the reasonable decision diagram is basically different than you imply. There’s a 0.01% chance you would know it was an ‘attempted rape’, without a complaint from the girl and legal meanings of words are obviously the relevant ones to bringing matters to the police. So stage one is to give the girl and her family time to exercise their right to make it a police matter, or not. If they do, then deal honestly with the police and demand your son also does, according to a lawyer’s advice whether to speak or remain silent. If it becomes a police matter you see it through on those terms until it’s adjudicated before considering what else to do.
If there is no complaint to the police from the girl or her family, and assuming you are reasonably sure that’s not due to explicit intimidation by your son or others, then it’s a serious matter that something untoward happened (again almost no chance in real life cases you’d have a reliable picture of the specifics) but in day to day real life, as opposed to national political theater, crimes are mainly defined by victim complaint. So you would not know of ‘attempted rape’. You’d know of various misbehavior (underage drinking, disrespect of girls etc) short of criminal. Again the exception would be strong evidence of intimidation by your son, friends or fellow gang members of the girl not to tell of a crime. But that also does not factor into the K case as far as we know now.
*either difference in perception between US ‘left’ and ‘right’ or non-US posters (I’ve noticed a few already so far) who might or might not have a preconception based on politics; a few Americans might not either but are likely far outnumbered by those just pretending not to or not fully aware of their own bias.
I don’t have kids myself, but I have a nephew whom I love as much as if he were my own, so…
I also bring a legal perspective from years of working as a judge’s assistant inside courtrooms.
Lastly, I have been the victim of similar attacks and have empathy for how a victim feels about it.
I agree with Rittersport regarding public sex offender registries. I’ve seen instances where a young person’s life was indeed ruined due to the lifetime registration requirement. Maybe things have changed since my years in the game and there is now a carve-out for younger persons (particularly with respect to statutory rape), but if not, then this would sure be a concern.
Apart from that, I agree that the child should suffer the full consequences of the law if the victim chooses to pursue that. I would work hard to pursue a diversion-type plea arrangement – one where the charges could be dismissed or lessened if my child successfully completed terms of probation.
Here’s the thing that bothers me most about the Kavanaugh scenario as it is alleged and where in my opinion it stands out as something beyond teenage “horseplay,” as it has been characterized by some. Pushing a girl into a room for privacy with a cohort, covering her mouth so she can’t scream… there is an element of premeditation in this scenario. It’s not like a mash session that just got out of hand (not that this is ok, either). The premeditation is what makes it especially creepy. It implies an element of sociopathy that I would want evaluated.
I would have serious concerns about a child who believed this was acceptable behavior. Top priority would be counseling for him, along with significant punishment/consequences for his inexcusable actions, painful though it might be for me to endure.
This is messy situation. You’re trying to balance her privacy, with her safety. She’s not going to reach out. It’s not safe to assume that’s she’s told her parents nor that she wants to do so, so contacting them is not a good idea unless there is reason to fear for her health. I think you should invite her to meet in person, if it can be arranged, in a public space. Invite her to come alone, or bring anyone of her choosing. Stress it will be the boy’s mother only. Let the girl pick the spot. A phone conversation would be the second choice, and a note as the third choice.
There are some tricky issues here, regarding state laws and her age. Some states will have mandatory reporting about endangered children for certain people in certain professions. Further, if she has been injured, then she may need medical help whether or not she wants it.
A teenager (probably a boy but I’m sure there are girls, most likely lesbians, who would also think it’s OK) who doesn’t think they did anything wrong quite likely has at least one parent who sees nothing wrong with this kind of behavior, and probably has a history of other inappropriate behaviors.
I’m the same age as BK, and everyone knew whose parents kept a well-stocked liquor cabinet and didn’t ask questions when things turned up missing, or had older siblings who would buy booze for them.
There is no non-legal meaning for that word. Attempted rape is a very specific legal term. You meant it in the legal sense because it doesn’t have any other senses. When you say murder, you also mean it in the legal sense, unless it’s clearly metaphorical such as “the singer really murdered that note”. Trying to pretend that rape means [whatever you’d prefer it to mean right this minute] is not helping anyone, least of all you.
It’s essential (not optional) that legal terminology keep its legal meaning in every context; otherwise, conversation is a terrible confusion.
Using a legal term at all, constitutes giving notice of intending the legal meaning.
Did I miss something? Kavanaugh has been accused but not convicted. It hasn’t even got as far as an arrest, let alone court. And I’ve just read on the BBC that his accuser ‘needs more time’.
Are you really sure that in your desperate hate of Trump you haven’t fallen for a lie?
The OP’s question was inspired by the Kavanaugh accusation, but it isn’t really about that, and if the accusation were totally unfounded it wouldn’t change the question.
I’ve been wondering about this, so I’ll go ahead and ask: Is “attempted rape” really a legal term? Certainly, a person who did the kind of thing Kavanaugh is accused of doing could be changed with (sexual) assault; but is “attempted rape” something a person can be legally charged with, and if so, how is it defined?
Depending on the jurisdiction, “rape” might be a possible charge. Some don’t use the term rape but use some variation on “sexual assault.”
And some might not define specific “attempt” crimes, while others would, especially for the biggies like murder or rape.
For example, Maryland currently has a crime “Attempted rape in the first degree”: Section 3-309 - Attempted rape in the first degree. :: 2010 Maryland Code :: US Codes and Statutes :: US Law :: Justia
I am NOT a parent, but children do need to learn that actions have consequences. It should start the first time they act up in public, and continue throughout their childhood.
Don’t tell me 17 year old boys don’t know that sexual assault is wrong. He should be made to face the legal consequences of his actions, instead of joining the “Yeah, but” crowd that keeps our legal system in business.
I remember a Montel Williams show about a man who impregnated a 12 year old, and then blamed her for his actions (She dressed like Jessica Simpson and had a crush on me, and was always sitting on my lap). Montel told him to cut the crap, and that if that had been his 2 year old daughter, Montel would be in prison and the rapist would be in the ground.