If I may say so, this has got to me one of the most ignorance-fighting Pit threads of which I’ve ever been a part. Well done, all.
BTW, why did Monalisa drop out? It was her OP, after all?
It really depends on the practices of your insurance provider. It sounds like Welby had an HMO plan, and HMO’s are notorious for being pretty awful (but at the same time being affordable). Two other common insurance schemes are the PPO (you’re given a list of doctors, and all visits to these doctors for whatever reason are covered by insurance, but you pay the full cost if you see a doctor outside of the plan) and the fixed-percentage plan (not sure on the name, but basically the insurance pays a fixed percentage, say 80%, of your medical costs, though often there is a deductible that must be satisfied before the insurance kicks in, and many fixed-percentage plans have a cap on the amount that you pay e.g. once your personal costs exceed $5,000 then the insurance covers 100% of the cost up to a maximum of, say, $1,000,000). Some (perhaps many) insurance plans have special provisions for disallowing psychiatric treatment, though – I was looking at short-term fixed-percentage insurance plans recently, and most of them set the maximum that the insurance would pay at about $1,000,000, except in the case of outpatient psychiatric treatment, for which the cap was typically a few hundred dollars (which doesn’t do jack shit when you’re seeing a shrink every other week).
Just curious, where are these numbers coming from?
Those statistics you can look up. Try www.mentalhealth.com. Certain illness have more predictable mortality rates than others (whether you’re talking mental illness, different types of cancer etc.) Most of the stats are compiled over time.
So yeah, 1 in 5 bi-polar patients take their own lives, usually through suicide but those who suffer full-blown mania may also be killed as a result of an accident caused by their own reckless behaviour (like say, in a manic episode one decides to display one’s superb acrobatic skills by doing a handstand on the railing of ahigh rize building…)
Cite?
First of all… I want to thank everyone who has shared with us a little piece of their “bipolar world”. Especially **Eats_Crayon’s ** description of her mania and mixed episodes… it very well could have been a chapter from my life story. And excuse me for any hijacks to follow…
I am 34 - diagnosed with Bipolar 10 years ago and shortly after that Diabetes. So… I apprecitated the Diabetes analogies. I have taken Lithium for the entire 10 years, adding Zoloft in the winter when I start to feel the depression. My first manic episode was caused (mainly) by Prozac. I worked 80 hours in one week and was living on no sleep, reg. Mt. Dew and cigarettes + Prozac = shake well = instant Mania !!! Woo Hoo. I was at my regularly scheduled psychologist appointment (I was already being treated for depression - which I have had ever since I can remember) he had a doctor come in to talk to me. Apparently I was rambling on… I still remember that poor woman - with her tiny little scratch pad - trying to frantically write down all of the crap that was spewing out of my mouth. Actually she looked kinda manic herself 
I have expericenced mixed states, ultra rapid cycling (sometimes switching within hours) and hypersexuality (which didn’t occur until a few years ago when I got the internet - go figure). If I can manage to get enough sleep, I can usually keep things under control. Luckily I have never had any suicidal thoughts - I may have wanted to die… but I never consciously came up with a plan to do so.
~ I think any of the works of **Kay Redfield Jamieson ** are excellent. Great perspective as a patient and a doctor. She also lets us see all of the great things in the world that we would not have if people had not been manic and created them. There are some new books out now that are very good as well… can’t think of any titles. 10 years ago there wasn’t much to choose from that wasn’t too technical.
~ I read recently that the average amount of time before diagnosis is 12 years. (I apologize I have no site) As Witch said “I lost a few years of my life I’d really like to have back, thank you please.” So, if anything it is underdiagnosed. You aren’t going to go to the doctor when you feel all happy, bouncing off the walls manic and tell them whoa you need to stop this - right now ! My middle name is procrastination anyway - when I am depressed I sure as hell am not gonna go running to my shrink.
~ Part of the reason I think that people might feel it is being over diagnosed is because for the first time alot of us are coming out of the closet. We are making ourselves known. We have forums such as this - that we feel safe talking about our innermost thoughts and feelings. 10 years ago the only people I knew with bipolar were the people that I was in the psych ward with. Now I know several personally - where I work. We have come a long way. We still have a long way to go - granted.
~ Another reason is bipolar is in the public eye more - due to the increase of screening for depression itself. The questionaires on depression and national depression screening day. People who were falling through the cracks before are being correctly diagnosed in shorter time. I’m not sure how I feel about the portrayal of bipolar on TV - anyone have comments on ER ???
~ betenoir asked WHAT IS LITHIUM PRESCRIBED FOR ? I got this from webmd.com = Lithium also is used to treat certain blood disorders, cluster headaches, premenstrual tension, bulimia, alcoholism, syndrome of inappropriate secretion of ADH, tardive dyskinesia, hyperthyroidism, postpartum affective psychosis, and corticosteroid-induced psychosis.
~ techchick68 totally hit the nail on the head about GP’s just writing a script and not having as much expertise as a psych doc. I believe this is why we are seeing a huge amount of ADHD diagnosis & depression meds being given out like candy.
~ It’s hard to achieve that balance. I do feel flat line emotion alot of the time because of the lithium I take. I really miss having that edge that Eats_Crayons mentioned. I am prone to any addiction so it is hard to keep my shit together. Mania is very seductive and it takes alot of willpower to keep on the right track. It’s no wonder alot of us self medicate with alcohol, drugs, food & sex. It seems like all of those things are bad for me now. But… life goes on.
~ I’m glad I read thru all of the posts before I put my 2 cents in. I would have made an ass of myself trigger posting. So… thank you to Monalisa9 and World Eater for keeping an open mind… and hopefully learning some new things about “our” world.
I didn’t really find anything, I’ll take a better look later.
Opal, I don’t mean to jump on you here if I appear to be, but I promise you, from bitter personal experience, that it does happen. And it was unwarranted; initiated, in fact, by the very people who were the problem. And I haven’t heard back from her in over a year and a half now. This wasn’t even an extreme case of any sort of illness on her part, though those who interceded “on her behalf” … well…
Fuck. There went my good mood.
As I said, I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, just that it’s quite rare and shouldn’t be used as an example of what psychiatric care is about.
Also, you say that it was initiated by the people who were the problem… meaning that the psychiatrist didn’t initiate it? If so, that was also covered in my post 
It’s a difficult thing to explain, Opal. I agree, though, that it shouldn’t be used as a benchmark. Using the worst case as the average is not really conducive to much good here.
In answer to Monalisa9, yes it is probably your imagination. I doubt that 50% of the population is being diagnosed as BP. Maybe it’s just your random fate to know a lot of BP people, just as there are people who don’t know anyone who is bipolar.
Or maybe you prefer interesting friends who possess fluid thinking and a changeable nature. Maybe you’re attracted to the kind of person who is prone to bipolar symptoms. Perhaps you don’t enjoy spending time with average, predictable, steady people, so you and your friends have selected each other.
Regarding “biological causes” for mood disorders (for lack of a better term), here’s the answer!!
-A person can become unhappy because they were born with genes that build their brain to be that way.
-Or, during prenatal development the mother drinks too much, or has a hormone disorder, or whatever, and the brain develops unhappily in the womb.
-Or a person gets hit in the head, or is exposed to a toxin, or has a malfunctioning thyroid, whatever, and the brain is altered.
-Or through experience, especially early in life, the brain is changed through learning, and gets stuck in an unhappy biological state (there hundreds of scientific studies that demonstrate this – do you need citations?)
-Or, the person is fine but is given a label for socio-political reasons
-Or the person is having a temporarily bad time, and will find their own way through it
-Or the person has some ideas that are self-defeating, and needs to learn better ideas
-Or Western society is a high-stress socially sterile cult, far removed from our development as agriculturally-based tribal beings in a slowly changing world, but we don’t know any different because we grew up with this society, and we don’t even realize how unhealthy it has become or why, so everyone REALLY IS acquiring a mood disorder these days.
Or any combination of the above, and more.
I’ve never been diagnosed, but it’s pretty obvious that I am bi-polar. I’ve always had my own issues, but since last spring things seem to have gotten more intense.
I go throught periods of highs and lows. These periods can last from a couple hours to the better part of a week. Between these periods, I might get a glimpse of “normal” that lasts a day or two. When I am “normal”, I still feel ups and downs, but they are the same kinds of ups and downs everyone else feels. They are tangibly different in quality than what I feel most of the time. Basically, I feel like I am on drugs 90% of the time.
When I am high, everything seems so perfect. The light falls on everything differently. Colors are brighter. Everything smells and tastes stronger. Every song I listen to becomes my new favorite song (thats what will usually give it away- I start noticing that I suddenly like all kinds of music I never liked before). It’s increadable. I almost feel like I can perceive the atoms in the world around me vibrating in perfect, beautiful, cosmic harmony. It’s almost spiritual. The world seems full to bursting with promise and love and perfection. It’s like the best drugs imaginable.
Oddly, a shot of espresso will often trigger a high. Espresso is my one tool when dealing with emotions.
During these times I also have to get all my work done. I clean the house. I do my homework for the next week or two. I try to get outside and get excersize. i call my friends. I have to because there is no telling how long it will last or when I’ll be functional again.
Sometimes, but not all that often, all of that goes a little overboard and I get nervous and tense. I lock myself in my room because I’m so irritable that I know I won’t be able to interact without getting irrationally angry with them. I get anxious and compulsive. But this is pretty rare. My highs stay tend to stay pretty euphoric.
My lows are bad. Really really bad. It’s utter despair. The sort of thing you’d feel if your whole family died after you got in a fight and you never got to say that you loved them. Inconsolable desolation- except there is no reason for it. I’ll have to walk out on classes because I am crying too hard. Sometimes I get on the bus to school and turn right around because I’m not five minutes out of the house and already I’m in tears. I get abrasions on my face from sleeping on pillows wet from tears. I wail. I scream. I throw up from crying. I can’t eat because I cry to hard. I lost forty pounds in the course of a few month from crying. There are some nights when I drink to pass out because it keeps me from searching around the house for pills that can be OD’d on. Suicide is a remote but seductive possibilty. I’ve got a whole arsenal of minor self destructive behavoirs designed to ward off the big ones. But mostly there is just pain- a constant dull wail of despair threatening to rise from my throught, a constant stream of tears springing to my eyes. No reason. Just pain.
And sometimes this kind of despair plays tricks with reality. Physical and social reality starts falling apart because pain feels like it’s the only thing that is real. Nothing is relevent. Things stop making sense. Everything feels like it has too much or too little meaning. I never see anything clearly. I’m always seeing the borderlines of loseing it. I see the seams and edges of our physical and mental constructions of reality and society. It’s hard to stay focused, to convince myself that it’s worth not letting reality slip away from me. I’m always working in a haze. I always feel like I’m on drugs.
I went to a doctor once. They didn’t really help. I know I ought to go again, but I have some issues with the very idea of mental illness. We define mental illness as a problem when it makes it hard to live an ordinary life. But should an ordinary life be any sort of standard? Ordinary lives are pretty unremarkable, and usually end up pretty unhappy in the process. I know that lithium helps people get through the day, but it is a pretty blunt and clumsy hammer. It’ll keep you from killing yourself (which from my point of view seems like an only marginally laudable goal) but it isn’t really any sort of good solution.
There is the whole artistic debate. I’m an artist. I’m brilliant. I see the world and make connections with the kind of clarity and creativity that few people have. I’d hate to lose that. I consider taht the most important part of me. Misery seems like a reasonable price to pay for brilliance. On practical terms, I’m a filmmmaker. It’s the perfect medium for someone prone to bursts of insane energy and comptetence. I can keep up (breifly) the kind of superhuman energy needed to do pull a massive film project together. When I’m “on a roll”, I can make the impossible possible, and film is a competative world, full of crazy people who can put their whole souls into a film, sanity be damned. I know it is that “edge” that even keeps me in the race.
When I was a little kid, I had the “Kids Book of Questions”. One of the questiosn was "would you want to live a life of perfect happiness, if it meant that you had to undergo ten minutes of excruciating pain every morning? Well, that’s my life. I’ve been thinking aobut it for twenty-two years, and I still don’t have an answer.
sven: Unless you’re on high dosages of meds (i.e. unless you’re zombie-ified) I doubt that you’ll become less artistic from meds. I didn’t notice that my creative writing ability diminished at all when I went on meds (though you better believe that I worried about it and was looking for any sign of diminished brain function), and my Depakote dose was pretty high. YMMV, but I’ve known a coupla creative-type bipolars (for lack of a better descriptor), and the meds didn’t really affect their abilities (other than the fact that they were no longer able to stay awake for 80 hours straight, but in all honesty, their work for the last 30-odd hours of such “marathon sessions” was sub-par, and they realized it as well). All-in-all, their work improved from their meds – they didn’t lose their creative edge, and they were able to utilize this ability during times that would ordinarily be lost in despair (since they usually didn’t produce jackshit during their depressive phases).
But, at the same time, I do like my manic phases, for what they’re worth. IMO they’re not worth the price of my depressive phases (particularly the weeks-long ones), though.
Hmm. I may have sent you on wild goose chase, come to think of it. Mentalhealth.com has mostly te DSM stuff. There used to be a great website called “Windsofchange” but it doesn’t appear to be up and running anymore… and Pendulum.org seems to have really changed its format since I was last there…
I’ll try to find you a proper cite/site.
Ah, here we go, did a Google search on “bipolar suicide ‘one in five’” and got the following:
A study by the Melbourne’s Mental Health Research Institute
A general fact sheet from Depression and Bipolar Support Alliance which is recommended by NIMH.
Argh! I know NIMH has stats on it because they did a big study on depression and suicide a couple of years ago! Can I find the info?.. grumble
Wow… didja know there’s an American Association of Suicidology?
There is an abstract here that looks really interesting. To read the full paper though you have to have a subscription and, I think, probably an MD. Some of the other papers I found on the site were way too advanced for me.
After all this searching for a cite, I found something I did not know (and was the source of the last URL above): Bipolar Disorder is associated with a higher frequency of attempted suicide than most other psychiatric disorders.
I came across that tid-bit of info a few times during my search. Never knew that.
Warning: Contradiction Ahead
I have found that when I’m stable, by artwork is very much affected. I am no where near as prolific and there is an “edgy” passion that is missing. Note: I am NOT on meds.
My friend is on meds and his artwork is in no way affected by the medication.
It may be alifestyle thing. When I’m cycling, I am much more likely to disapepar in my studio for several days with no food except a few bottles of wine.
Important comment – My friend said of his meds:
“The medication does NOT make it all go away. The condition is still there, the moods are still there in all their glory – the medication just makes it manageable. You’re still bi-polar you, but it’s manageable.”
Woo-hoo! Three posts in a row! I OWN the boards! Mwa-ha-ha-ha!
I s’pose that would offer some explanation as to why he and I are affected pretty much the same way in terms of our (un)diminished levels of creativity – when I was on meds they clearly didn’t do “enough” for my disorder just as his don’t do “enough” for his disorder.
In his case, the meds were working – the extremes of the highs and lows were clipped, big time. Say on a scale of 1-10, usually his feelings of crappiness were 15.
On medication it was more like 5-7. He would still feel a “little blue” for no reason, but the nasty bite wasn’t there to incapacitate him, and he said he also felt a greater “awareness” of the condition – he could tell the difference between a genuine emotion that had a cause in the real world (like “my hamster died, I’m sad”) and and aberrant mood that just showed up for no reason (like “bummer, I’m sad… but it’s just that pesky bipolar thing again. Best ignore it.”)
I found his experiences quite fascinating actually.
With some slight reservations by my therapist, I tried an herbal plan a couple years ago. At that time, my cycle was lasting so long, that it seemed that medication was the inevitable route, so we figured, “well, as long as she’s keeping an eye on me in case of adverse reactions, might as well see…” The herbal plan yielded only a very slight difference. It took a bit of the edge off, say from a crappiness level of 15 to a crappiness level of 12.
All in all, I would NOT recomend it. While it was very slightly helpful the first time, it launched me into a paranoid hypomanic phase the second time – overnight too. I was utterly convinced that I was going to be fired. Everytime the VPs office door was closed, I thought “they’re talking aobout replacing me!” (I’d just had my yearly review which was quite positive and I got a raise – so my paranoia was truly baseless.)
BP is a little too tricky for a general herbal program.