I’m not sure why people asking you when you’re going back to work suddenly becomes a statement that being a housewife is such a bad thing. So they’re curious. So they made the mistaken assumption that you’d return to the workforce at a certain point. So what?
You’ve just given a handful of reasons why it’s the best thing for your family. What, do you not believe your own reasons? They ought to be good enough for you. Why get so rattled by questions from outside your immediate family? If someone wondering why you choose to be a SAHM is equal, in your mind, to them saying you’re a lazy-ass pig, I think you’ve got some real issues with your own choices.
My guess is he’s not going to leave you because he’d actually have to support his children AND himself. My ex flat out told me he doesn’t pay for children who don’t live with him. Fucker. (He’s dead now…but I never got a dime out of him).
If you’re your own boss, you won’t have to worry about the snow days and sick days, although I think you really should consider teaching your children some independence. Staying home alone a day here and a day there is much different than leaving them home after school all the time. Also, you may be able to make arrangements with someone to be with the kids when they’re home on a snow day. Maybe the school has an arrangement?
I forgot to add that, while I understand you’re scared, you need to keep in mind that MILLIONS of women in worse shape than you do this all the time. MILLIONS do it from the time their children are infants until they go off to college. This is not ground-breaking territory. If you want out badly enough, you can do it.
I have to say I agree with this, and that’s from another SAHM or, as I like to call myself, “housewife.”
I am a college drop-out who’s been effectively out of the workforce for ten years. I don’t have the temperament to be housewife. I don’t enjoy typical kid-type activities - nor did I when I was a kid. Diane raised the point of SAHMs who don’t have a back-up plan; that’s me. I told my husband flat-out that he was getting life insurance because if he dies, me and the kids are fucked. I know I could scramble and find a way to make it somehow - but initially we would be flat-out fucked.
HOWEVER.
I am in the very fortunate situation of being with someone who likes me. There’s no question that we love each other. We also really like the crap out of each other though, and with that comes a certain amount of trust and respect. I’m sure you and your husband still love each other, but it really sounds as though you don’t LIKE each other at all. That’s unhealthy and really bad for your kids.
If you want to start a new life, move out here - the county I live in is dying for school bus drivers. The kids can be on the bus with you when they’re out of school, or if you really prefer afternoon daycare, they won’t be in for long. The older one is legally allowed to baby-sit at the age of 13, so there’s that, too. I’d do this myself but I am currently wholly unqualified for the position…might try it in a couple of years.
Anyhow, I agree with Cranky in that you wouldn’t be so fixated on the “useless housewife” accusations if they didn’t poke you in an uncomfortable spot. You really ought to evaluate how you really feel on the most basic level about your situation and how you feel about it. No one is going to be able to change what’s going on with you except for YOU. Your husband is not going to magically See The Light and say, “Oh, honey…I understand how much work you’ve been doing, THANK you!” He’s going to keep listening to everyone but you and you have to decide if that’s the way you’re willing to live. If it’s not, you are the one who’s going to have to swallow her fear and gird her loins and, grim determination on her face, do what needs to be done.
I genuinely hope you don’t end up being IDBB Mark III; I really do. And I’m serious about the school bus driver thing.
No where in there did I say anything about going to work because of some “magical age”. My point was that her kids are of an age where they should be able to do a lot of what takes up her time as a SAHM. Housework should be a responsibility for everyone who lives in the house, not just mommy. A 10 and 9 year old (even with a reading disability) are old enough to clean their rooms, wash dishes, clean bathrooms, vacuum, etc. If they are not helping to keep the house clean, they should be, because it will help them develop into capable, cooperative human beings who value tidiness and the hard work that goes into maintaining it. Her kids should also be mature enough to at least be able to prepare their own breakfast and lunch. I’m not saying they HAVE to do it; but if they became a little bit more self-sufficient, maybe dragongirl wouldn’t be so tied up with activities that concern people other than herself.
My twin sister and I were latch-key kids at an early age (so early that I’m afraid that if I say the exact age, some people will accuse my good hard-working parents of child abuse). We were expected to to do a lot for our selves, and even back then I didn’t have a problem with it. I was never afraid of being alone without an adult to tell me what to do, when I was hungry I knew how to rid myself of that condition, and I learned how to be responsible. And we lived in inner city Atlanta, which is not exactly known to be Mayberry. To each his own, though. Maybe kids of working parents tend to be more independent than kids of SAHPs?
You know, that’s what’s bothered me about some of dragongirl’s threads - she reminds me a lot of IDBB. But I think IDBB and her husband loved each other, and at least respected each other. I don’t think dragongirl’s hubby respects her very much; from that last thread, I remember she said he doesn’t stand up to his mother and sisters and defend her to them.
Anyway, there’s gotta be something you can do, dragongirl. Daycare in your home? I know you said you live far out, but is there anyone nearby who needs daycare? Are you near a main road that commuters use?
Can you work at a daycare center close to your kids’ school?
For your own kids, do they have after-school care in the school where your kids go? They have something called Open Door where my son goes - it’s in the cafeteria, and it’s basically after-school care for kids with working parents. I think it’s only $35 a week, with a discount for additional kids from the same family. The kids hang out, play games, have a snack, have an outside playtime, the caregivers will help with homework, whatever. It’s organized and structured, not just kids running around unsupervised.
You could either put your kids in that type of afterschool care, while you work somewhere else, or, better yet, get an job working there, and your kids might be able to go for free (or half-price), while you’re earning money. You’d be off when they’re off. Think about something like that.
I didn’t say you did. My “magical” age comment was rearding you saying “they’re old enough to help around the house…and be left home alone for a few hours”. Presumably so she go to work, if tha’ts not what you meant, I apologize. Though I can’t imagine any circumstance in which I’d leave kids younger than mid-teens alone for a “few hours” out in the country. The OP herself along with several other posters have already commented upon her being 27 miles out in the country, and how leaving her kids alone for even a little bit wasn’t something she was comfortable with.
I agree that kids can help around the house once they reach a certain age. But why does that then mean that mom has to “go to work”? She explained quite clearly that raising and watching her kids wasn’t all that she did. But based on your post, it seems as if you think that she’s wanting to stay home just to “do every little thing for her kids”. She’s been very clear on all of the other tasks she does for her family and her husband, including bringing in income.
I disagreed with what seemed to be your implication that if the kids reach some arbitrary age, then the parent needs to go to work because they “no longer need ‘everything’ done for them”. Though I do definitely agree that even if mom is staying home, kids need to do age appropriate chores themselves.
Dragongirl, if you like, email me. I have a relationship board that is made up of some phenomenal members. Very kind, supportive, non-judgmental (NOT that I think anyone here is being judgmental), and with some excellent helpful advice.
If you like, email me and I’ll send you the addy. You might find a smaller, relationship specific forum more to your liking. Especially one in which you can just be yourself, let your hair down so to speak.
Anyway, my email addy (is that okay?? if not delete it, and I’ll figure out how to put it in my screen name thingie):…
Oh, and if you decide to email me, be sure and put something like “this is Dragongirl from SDMB” or something so that I don’t delete it along with spam. Good luck.
I think the IDBB comparisons are a little too soon-I think dragongirl’s situation is a lot more serious-especially with two kids to support.
I also think she really knows, deep down, that it’s time to call it quits, but she’s not QUITE ready to make that step. She’s not refusing to change, or just whining.
Kids in their mid-teens are driving cars and working themselves!!! A normal twelve-year old, in the majority of American households, is helping prepare dinner, doing chores, possibly babysitting (I know I was) and doing homework for a few hours after school.
In my opinion, she’s being over-protective…probably due to her uncomfortable home situation. If she started giving the kids more responsibility, they could prove themselve responsible enough to handle it and she’d feel better. Is she actually 27 miles from the next human being? Remember, the kids have a telephone if something happens.
The issue is that she’s in a miserable marriage and for the health of her family as well as a means to support them, she needs to go to work. Her posts on this subject are obviously a cry for help. She needs to build a life for herself. These aren’t infants we’re talking about here. Besides, there are many jobs that will allow her to be home after school.
At 8, they won’t even investigate (except under extenuating circumstances) a child left alone for less than two hours. At 11, children are old enough, according to their county attorney and social services staff, to be left alone for twelve hours! And babysit younger siblings.
Dakota county is part of the metro area, but is fairly rural.
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Originally Posted by CanvasShoes
I didn’t say you did. My “magical” age comment was rearding you saying “they’re old enough to help around the house…and be left home alone for a few hours”. Presumably so she go to work, if tha’ts not what you meant, I apologize. Though I can’t imagine any circumstance in which I’d leave kids younger than mid-teens alone for a “few hours” out in the country.
Um, Right. Which is why I said I wouldn’t leave kids YOUNGER than mid teens home alone, especially in the country. Mid teens to me being around 14, 15, 16. I didn’t say I wouldn’t leave kids mid teen years alone. And again, I don’t disagree that kids even younger than that should be helping out. I disagree with the attitude that because they reach that age means that it’s no longer a valid choice for mom or dad to stay at home. And THIS is from a woman who was, except for the nursing year, NOT a SAHM, but a dyed in the wool and loving it working mom. Even so, I don’t see that "when the kids reach a certain age (that of being able to do things for themselves, and being in school for 6 hours) suddenly makes SAHParenthood not a viable choice. And that seems to be the implication of a few posts here.
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The OP herself along with several other posters have already commented upon her being 27 miles out in the country, and how leaving her kids alone for even a little bit wasn’t something she was comfortable with.
Twenty seven miles from civilization, regardless of whether there is a human somewhere in their area, is a hell of a long way to emergency services should something happen. Nine and 11 are too young of ages to be left alone. And in MY home state, illegal as well.
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I disagreed with what seemed to be your implication that if the kids reach some arbitrary age, then the parent needs to go to work because they “no longer need ‘everything’ done for them”. Though I do definitely agree that even if mom is staying home, kids need to do age appropriate chores themselves.
Her leaving and going to work will likely involve her moving to a more amenable area and situation in order for her to be able to DO that. And I was talking about not just her situation, but my opinion about SAHMs in general as far as my disagreement that if kids are in school or don’t need constant supervision then it’s a given that the SAHP needs to go to work.
Of course it’s her business, but the rest of the world does it with excellent results most of the time. Also, I didn’t hear anyone say that she “needs” to go to work because her kids are older now. She needs to go to work because her family needs the money. She needs to go to work because she will need to support her family if she decides to leave Mr. Nice Guy. She needs to go to work because she needs to build a little self-esteem. That’s all’s I’m sayin’.
But I think if your kids are that age, it is harder to maintain that being a SAHM is a sound financial decision, which is what dragongirl is saying it is now.
I knew a SAHM who had two teenage kids. When she wasn’t ferrying them to soccer and violin practices, she was doing the shopping, cleaning, and making the home “Martha Stewartesque”. I’m also sure she did some volunteer stuff as well. But the thing was, her husband was a very well-to-do physician. Her income was not necessary or wanted. Her being a SAHM was a valid choice only because the family could well afford it. But if her husband had been a truck driver who thought the household needed more money, then I don’t think her being a SAHM would have been a valid choice.
(Her kids were also spoiled, sorry to say. They treated their fabulous mother like a doormat. I can’t help but blame the fact that she was at their beck and call 24/7. But I’m sure there were other issues going on as well.)
dragongirl can justify her decision now because of daycare costs. But when daycare isn’t an issue and the kids become more self-sufficient, her husband’s griping will seem less wrong (even if he is a jerk). That time is approaching quickly.
dragongirl, could you become a teacher’s aide? How about being a schoolbus driver?
Well, that HAS been mentioned in this thread. As in, weighing the cost of sending the second person to work, and the cost of having to pay someone to do the things that the second person, who’s now gone to work, no longer has time or energy to do.
Again, leaving aside for the moment that the OP is in a bad situation emotionally, and it may be best for her and her kids if she did leave, Dragongirl IS contributing to the family’s AND her husband’s wellbeing, both financially, and in all the the other tasks she performs besides cooking and cleaning. She pays the bills, makes the phone calls, I’d wager she’s the one who chooses and buys all the presents and cards for holidays for both her family AND her husband’s and so on.
With both people working outside the home, a lot of those things either wouldn’t get done, or someone would have to be paid to do them.
Then, there’s the cost of another vehicle for the second working person, it’s upkeep, tires, gasoline, insurance, car payments and so on. The cost of a work wardrobe for the second working person. There is the cost for lunches for that person. There is the cost for daycare, for even if the kids are in school, school only lasts until what? 2 or 3 pm? How do the kids get from school to daycare after school? And that’s not even to mention summer when there is no school.
Now maybe in some states the “legal to be left alone age” is 9 or 10. I know that in a lot of states it’s 12.
A lot of the time, the costs for the second person to go to work outweighs the income they’d be getting to go to work. And her husband has already made it clear that she has to go to work without HIM having to take on any of “her” duties.
I think the “can afford it” question has been addressed several times. Many times, especially if the family is lower income and the mom not well skilled, it would cost MORE to send her to work, rather than bring in income.
Well, as you said, likely other issues, kids from all walks of life can “treat their parents like doormats”. IMHO, it’s not that they had SAHPs.
Right, but she also stated that the problem in her particular case wasn’t the money, it was that his ego was being “threatened” due to peer pressure. After all, it sounds as if she IS making money by working from home. He didn’t state that she needed to make more, which I’ll bet she could by doing more projects. I have lusted after some of those home done quilts and afgans myself, they’re SPENDY suckers. But HIS problem is that he wants her to get a JOB.
As in outside the home. I have absolutely NO gripe with the fact that the SAHP may need to contribute financially as he/she is able once the kids get older. I just don’t see why it seems to be a given, in more general cases than Dragongirl’s, that "welp, kids are grown, get out and work now that you’ve done a thankless 24/7 job for the last 10-12 years, OH, and don’t expect ME, the (dramatic entitled pause) “working” parent to pitch in and do “your work” either. After all, I “supported” you all those years.
If the working parent is willing to take on extra responsiblities at home, or to pay to have those things done, in a cheerful willing manner, that’s one thing, but I really bristle at the idea that these folks have been somehow been “being taken care of” and contributing little other than raising kids.
And again, that’s from the standpoint of someone who was NOT, except for a couple of short periods in my life, a SAHM.
Really good suggestion, I know that subsitute teachers make okay money, and for the 6th and 7th grade level (at least for me) it’s not too bad a job. In my area it’s between 3 to 6 hours a day, and pays 50 to 70 per day. Some areas require a CDL for bus drivers though.
You may want to check your state law before you make such claims. According to this site- which may be dated - only two states, Illinois and Maryland have laws with specific ages. Illinois is 14, but the law states that children under the age of 14 can not be left alone for an “unreasonable” amount of time. The guidelines make it pretty clear that an 11 year old may be able to be left alone for some amount of time without violating the law. Maryland’s law says you can’t leave a child younger than eight home alone.
Is this where Dragongirl lives as well? Sorry I missed that, I didn’t notice her location.
In my home state, it’s 12. And I ended up, a few times, in areas too far from town for MY taste.
Do you think this is JUST a matter of legality?? Yes, kids that age can use the phone. Do you know how fast a structure fire can become fully involved? VERY damn fast. Too damn fast for a fire truck to get there from 27+ miles away.
Or how fast a determined burgler or sex offender can decide to just bust a window? Doesn’t do a kid a whole hell of a lot of good to know how to use the phone if they’ve been doing their homework, or chores, and didn’t notice the person creeping around casing the joint until he hears the glass shatter.
How long it takes a kid to choke to death? Say they’re watching TV and they get to laughing too hard at a program with a big piece of cookie in their mouth? Doesn’t do them OR their siblings any good to know how to use the phone if they’re 27 miles out in the country, they’d be dead long before an ambulance could get there.
I’d a HEAP rather be safe than sorry.
I agree, it is her business. And I also agree that if she wants to get out of this situation, she’ll have to anyway.
I also didn’t disagree that going to work is an “excellent” thing, as I have said
several times, I am NOT a SAHM, I’m a working mom, and have been for most of my kids’s raising, only staying home the year I nursed my son, and for other short periods.
But when I was complaining about the “needing to go to work” part, I wasn’t talking of her specific situation, I was talking in general about that sort of attitude from some people, that of “well, the kids are grown time for you to get a ‘real’ job”.
Quite possible, after all, my daughter is nearly 25, and hasn’t been below 12 for a LONG time
At the time, in the state of Alaska, I called DYFS, and they are the ones who informed me that it was 12.
It was never an issue with my son because I stayed at home with him for most of the first year, and then his dad until he was three, and then he went to daycare. So it’s possible that in the 12+ years between her being a young “tween” and his being born (yes, he was a late in life surprise :D), that they’d modified the law.
Perhaps the husband said he wouldn’t clean just out of spite and meanness. Maybe if it became NECESSARY for him to do it, he would. Maybe dragongirl could grow some balls and demand him to do it. People, even jerks, can change their minds.
But even if this wouldn’t happen, dragongirl would not be caring for the household all alone. She would have three helpers…her children. My mother and father worked long hours and the house did not fall to pieces. Why? Because they had four children who knew how to pick up a broom, butter toast and pour milk, wash the dishes, and fold up the laundry.
The house will not be immaculate if dragongirl works. She may have to stay up an extra hour to pay the bills. They may have to eat leftovers once or twice a week. But it’s not like dragongirl will need to hire a housekeeper just so that the household can keep functioning.
These are expensives millions of families have to deal with. If dragongirl was a single mother, she would not be able to use the cost of gas as an excuse for not working. Sure, lots of single parents collect welfare, as is there right to do. But eventually even these people have to work.
Many working mothers would look at dragongirl’s situation and say “Cry me a river, babe”. They are doing it. The only reasons dragongirl isn’t doing it are because 1) she doesn’t really want to and 2) she does not feel that’s its absolutely necessary. She has some good justifications to support her side, but that doesn’t mean she isn’t making a debatable choice to stay at home.
This is really besides the point. For most of the year, she has at least seven hours when she is not in the company of her children.
I got this the first million times it was said. And it’s sad her husband said this, even if it he uttered it only out of meanness. But I’m really not feeling the “it costs more for a second person to go to work” stuff for a mother of teenagers (which I understand dragongirl is not). Daycare costs are one thing. Cleaning and cooking are another. If dragongirl did not have her husband’s income, she would not be able to collect welfare on the excuse that having a job is expensive and the house needs to be cleaned. No, she would move closer to a business sector, borrow somebody’s business suit, fill out an application, and jump right in. Clean the house on the weekends like everyone else does.
It seems to me that living out in the country is dragongirl’s problem, not the fact that she only has a high school diploma.
I think you are assuming a lot from a conversation and a history we aren’t completely privy to. Maybe the husband feels like dragongirl’s crocheting can’t possibly bring in enough money, no matter how many afghans she produces. It is up to dragongirl to show him that she can. Maybe then he will lay off on her.
I agree that this is an ignorant attitude. But I’m not as sure as you are that it’s a “given”. On the other hand, I only know of one SAHM, and her husband is reasonable about doing household stuff.
Having grown up with two working parents, it is hard for me to wrap my head around stay-at-home-parents who aren’t carrying for small children. I look at my parents and the way I grew up. We were far from an ideal family, and there were many times when my parents weren’t home and I needed them. But I don’t think my mother or father would have had been working that hard if they had been staying at home all day.
Working parents (good ones, that is) work two jobs. SAHP work one. This fact is where the resentment and lack of sympathy comes from. I don’t think it’s that hard to understand.
Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your point of view), substitute teachers have to have college degrees nowadays. And in some districts, the degree has to be in a field related to the courses schools teach (no anthropology and sociology majors, in other words).
I find it very interesting that this thread has become a debate over the legality of her children staying home, the childrens ability to do chores, and whether they are spoiled because she stays at home with them.
As I said earlier, I am a SAHM and my children are 11 & 12 years old. In our state it is legal for our children to stay at home by themselves, and they do while I go grocery shopping, run errands, etc.
It’s not an issue over whether our children can stay at home, nor did I see the OP say anything along those lines either. Rather, it’s a personal choice that our children come home from school to a parent who is ready, willing and able to discuss their day, help with homework, etc. Oddly enough, the latchkey kids in our neighborhood usually migrate to our home while waiting for their parents to come home from work which is fine with us because it gives us the opportunity to really know our childrens friends.
Our children are responsible for many chores around the house, ranging from cutting the lawn, general cleaning around the house, or preparing their own meals when needed. One of my “jobs” as a SAHM is to teach them how to be contributing, responsible young adults in society. I don’t recall the OP mentioning that her children were incapable or unwilling just because she is at home.
As for being spoiled - yes, our children are spoiled but not in the sense I’m reading in this thread. They show their appreciation for the extra’s like driving them and their friends to the water park, movies, etc. They are more than willing to do extra chores around the house in order to pay for those “extras”. Where did the OP say that her children were spoiled? I think many assumptions are being made that just aren’t true.
We’re low to middle middle class financially and frankly we sacrifice the luxery of many material things in order for one of us to be at home. This is a choice we make as a family and I’m happy that Mr. Adoptamom and I are on the same page. However, if we weren’t we would make the best of that situation as well and find a compromise that met both of our needs as well as the needs of our family. That’s were I believe the OP and her husband are reaching an impasse.
