Ok this could get me banned… or whatever - but I wanted to know so I’m asking.
There seems to be a feeling that newbies are lesser forms of life here - its not a general feeling as I know some people say hi and welcome to new people. I didnt post a thread saying “Hi its me, I’m new” cos I thought that would be a bit pushy (for me). Just posted when I saw something interesting.
But I have read a fair bit and do get the impression that newbies are considered somewhat lacking. Now my take on it is that everyone had to start somewhere or this place might not exist and that a newbie today or tomorrow (or February in my case lol) might end up the greatest, most fun poster ever. Surely you don’t want to prejudge just because they are new?
Also, as with any social group, there are norms of which newbies might not be aware, which is understandable. Surely its better to cut some slack and not criticise just because someone hasn’t as much experience as others.
I should say that I am totally generalising - I’m not talking about specific people - its just a general impression I get. I am several other groups on the net where we discuss many many subjects and my take on it is its nice to get some new blood and I hold my judgement on them until I get to know them better. Sure, if they turn out to be complete assholes or spammers or flamers, I’ll call them on it then - but I do give them the benefit of the doubt.
Anyway, just wondered … might get me flamed or whatever… but I think its a fair query in general.
I haven’t noticed any particular discrimination against newbies. I think what you are noticing might be that there are a few newbies who break the rules. This isn’t unusual considering they are new to the forum.
Actually, I really don’t think it’s a thing about newbies, or about post numbers. (As you can see, I’ve been here for a little while, and I haven’t posted a whole hell of a lot. Still fairly new though) I think some of the older Dopers just get tired of breaking people in.
Granted, like you said, everyone has to start somewhere.
But I think they all might not be so hard on newbies if they took the time to check out everything before they made their first 3,000 posts in their first five minutes on the board.
I’ve made a couple of good fuck ups (I posted my crime scene clean-up question in General Questions three times in a row by accident) but the mods and everyone else seemed to be pretty nice about it.
And, just so you know, I still say nothing is funnier than a Fetal Blood Soaked Feces Beast!
When you talk about newbies your I asume your refering to the post numbers people have… I dont think its fair for anyone to assume that because someone hasnt posted a lot that there opinion isnt as valid as someone else
Over my…err…banned username. Somehow that doesn’t have the same ring to it. You’re a great addition to the board, and I don’t think anyone would be inclined to want you banned, anyway.
I’ve seen newbies treated badly, here, as well. For no other, apparent, reason than they’re new. Perfectly reasonable posts that would have drawn favorable comments from other users, if they’d come from better known posters, are either ignored or bashed. I honestly think some folks don’t even see posts by newbies. They’re just scanning for posts by people they know, and like. Others just have less tolerance for people they don’t know. And, given that they don’t know the poster, those posts are more subject to misinterpretation than the posts of familiar long-timers. Some people also start to feel like they have some entitlement that they’ve earned by surviving X amount of time or posts on a board. And, they get resentful when a newbie challenges their assumptions.
Unfortunately, that’s life, whether on-line, or not. People are people, whether they’re talking or typing. It’s no different than on any other board I’ve ever been on, and I’ve been on various boards since the 80’s. Nothing’s changed, except the technology. Maybe the community, here, should take that as their challenge. It sure would be nice to do away with that form of ignorance.
Davebear makes a great point. People are people, whether they’re typing or not. It’s just going to come down to they way they view the board.
I can imagine someone might be less inclined to take posts with a grain of salt if they see you have low posts numbers. It’s really the same for everything in life I suppose, and I don’t think any of us are really excluded from that pattern of thought, whether we want to admit it or not.
I agree that Davebear made a good point. I will admit it both for myself and many others - we tend to get haughty after a while, but as previously mentioned, that’s just the way people are.
Now to switch to long-time-poster mode:
That there shows that you are a newbie. The rest of your post is very well thought-out and easy to read, but you throw in the lol thing, which many Dopers see as childish.
But, since you did start this thread, and it technically is all about being a newbie …
Welcome to the Straight Dope. I’ve read some of your posts thus far and I think you’ll enjoy being part of this community.
I’ve also observed that some newbies are quickly attacked for things that known posters wouldn’t be attacked for (and that may be the worst grammar I’ve ever used!)
When I first came here, I posted something I thought was fairly innocuous, and was attacked (I thought) viciously by someone with a very high post count. The only thing that kept me from leaving was the fact that no one else piled on - mind you, no one defended me or called that poster out for being so vicious, either. Looking back now, I am absolutely certain that the poster WOULD have been called out had s/he been a newbie, or had I been an “oldbie.”
For my own part, I usually don’t notice someone’s post count or registration date unless - they have an unusual user name that stands out, they say “Hello, I am a newbie,” someone ELSE mentions they notice a newbie, or it’s completely obvious that the newbie is clueless (posting about the word that ends in -gry, or typing in that silly leet fashion, etc.)
I have to agree - people will be who they are, wherever they are. But I’d really like to see that people are just taken on face value - what they have to say is just as valid as anyone else’s opinion (except, of course, if they are flamers or spammers or whatever - they deserve whatever they get).
It’d just be nice that people were welcomed in a positive way and not seen in a negative light just because their post counts were low - but then again, I tend to be a “the glass is half full” kind of person.
Sorry LifeOnWry, I didn’t understand this (showing my newbie colours now :p)
It happens. Shouldn’t, but it does. Good news is, IMHO, it happens less than it used to. I’ve noticed the newbies we’ve had in the last… ooo… I dunno… six months have been a pretty cool bunch. Maybe that’s been recognised. We don’t seem to be getting the high levels of trolling etc we used to, and talk of “The Clique” has died down a bit.
The “-gry” thing is a stupid joke, and it’s been addressed here numerous times. Of all the stupid jokes that are posted here, this one seems to be the most frequently mentioned. Here’s what Cecil had to say about it: http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_251.html
“leet” (also seen as l33t), I have recently learned, is considered some kind of actual alternative language (don’t care enough to find out more, to be honest) but when it appears here, it looks like this:
“h3ll0! i want 2 no if U R going to answer my ? B4 i loose my t3mp3r!”
l33t is a stupid form of typing that really should only be used to create passwords. People who type like this are not very well liked here, and those people are always newbies. People here like spelling, punctuation and grammar, although different forums are more fexible than others in what they will accept (you can be a bit more relaxed and “freelance” in MPSIMS than in GD, for example).
As for the -gry thing…ever hear that stupid riddle about angry, hungry, and the third english word that ends in -gry? Don’t know the answer? DON"T ASK HERE! Its been covered so many times that it’s one of the (un)official “don’t ask” subjects. Cecil does have a column on it, and you can search, but PLEASE don’t mention it - it shows how much of a newbie you are, and really makes you stand out in a negative way.
The same is true for the stupid “duck quacks don’t echo” statement…just don’t start a thread on it.
I personally read posts, if the post is interesting (in either a positive or negative sense), I say “Gee, I wonder who posted that” and look to the left. If the name doesn’t ring a bell, I check post count and say “1263 posts! Never even noticed them before.” Or, “12 posts, new.”
We don’t tend to do a lot of “hi” threads. This has to do with a couple of things. One, if you are new here, you probably aren’t aware that this board used to be the slowest thing on the internet. It took patience to post here. So threads (and posts) that didn’t have a purpose were somewhat annoying - and in some cases, actively discouraged. To be following a thread, see a new post, refresh, wait three or four minutes for the page to load, to discover the content of the new post was “Welcome to the SDMB” was sure to illicit a groan. Two, there are a lot of people here, and a lot of new people. Some make an immediate impression. About 75% of those who make an immediate impression make it because they will be banned shortly. 25% make an immediate impression due to the quality of their posts. The vast majority of newbies make no impression at all. Hell, the vast majority of established posters here make no impression at all (as in 1263 posts and I’ve never noticed - as in I went to my first Dopefest with my post count and some people didn’t recognize the name). Some of the newbies who make no impression will stick and will someday be accused of being in the Clique, others won’t - they will make their 12 posts and discover the SDMB isn’t their thing. But the “our newest member” name changes every time I log in - this board moves fast - I personally have time to keep up with a couple of threads at a time and don’t bother to keep up with newbies.
Last, yes, like any board, we do have a couple of “newbie baiters.” Most of the things that newbies see as hazing are actually good hints to fit in (things like using l33t, LOL, ignoring grammer and spelling, board hot buttons (like using gay to mean something other than homosexual - or the three words ending in gry), not knowing a cite from a hole in the ground, or an old Urban Legend from your ass). We could, I suppose, cut some slack on these issues and just accept you for being you - but we are inheriently helpful people who want to fight your ignorance about these topics. A couple of posters actually do engage in unjustified newbie baiting.
And welcome to the SDMB. We bait some of the oldbies as well.
A relatively small number of newbies draw a huge amount of attention because they’re behaving badly.
A relatively small number of veterans draw a huge amount of attention because they’re behaving badly.
If there are a dozen monkeys in a cage, and ten are sitting around grooming each other and yawning, one’s being the aerial acrobat flying from one side of the cage to the other, and the last one is flinging poo at the silly humans, which two are going to get noticed or commented upon?
As a newbie to posting, but not to reading, I have personally commited a few goofs that seem to be typical for new posters.
Not knowing the board history - I have twice posted answers to questions that have full threads already (in the last few months). It’s more than searching before hand. You can’t pick up the hot button issues without having been on the boards for a while.
Gaudere’s law - This gets thrown around so much, but is not explained. Searching usually turns up lots of references to it, but never a clear statement. If the person commtting the foul was a new poster, a short paraphrase would help… “As soon as you start to correct someone else’s grammar, you will make a mistake on your post.” Oh, and preview mode doesn’t help unless the poster can actually catch his or her own mistakes.
Eager Posting - Despite the numerous “don’t be a newbie” and “here are the rules” and “Frequent questions” threads in the About the Boards topic, most new posters are not planning to post until that one thread comes along that peaks your interest or gets your goat. So you jump into the fray without the groundwork. I would hypothesize that very few posters research the history, rules and hot buttons of the boards before jumping in.
Choosing a forum - Is it a General Question or Great Debate? Mundane and Pointless or Humble Opinion? Usually, if you goof badly, the moderators will move the thread without too much pain from other posters.
The Hijack - When is your post a tangent or extension of the topic, when it is a hijack, and how do you get out of those situations. In one GD thread, I posted a short answer to a specific question from a previous poster. It was slightly off topic from the OP. Another poster jumped on me and we exchanged four or five posts in greater and greater detail that were further and further off topic. Not knowing whether to take it to a new thread, or just continue where we were, I put in a comment to the effect that I’d be happy to move it elsewhere and left it for other posters to complain and/or a moderator to move it. I’ve seen more than one newbie get sucked into a heated exchange that doesn’t relate at all to the OP.
I do have the advantage of being related to two long time SDMBer’s who help set me straight from time to time. But we can’t all be Q.E.D. who seems to be both a newbie and EVERYWHERE! Even worse, he always has good posts!
I find that some established users will respond to my posts, and some won’t give me the time of day. Don’t let it bother you, speak your mind. My rules:
1- Be polite and courteous at all times. I don’t use profanity in any posts.
2- Don’t start a new thread unless you’re darn sure that it wasn’t done in the past 3 months. Some old timers LOVE to grill you over the coals for that one.
3- Better yet, don’t start a GD thread at all until you get a reputation.
4- For heaven’s sake, avoid the -gry and quack echo pitfalls
5- Spend more time in IMHO and CS, less time in GD. GD is newbie Hades.
Have a thick skin. If older posters choose to ignore you, so be it. It’s their loss, not yours.
I still consider myself a newbie, and refrain from posting, partly because I’m a natural lurker, and partly because I never like advertising my presence, which are actually the same thing expressed in different ways.
Some people stay newbies forever. I’m one of them.
(showing my newbie colours now :p)
you’re my first hi, hello.