Whereas there is enough of a demand for women-only gyms to sustain a number of franchises in several countries. There are very good reasons for this, even if some folk don’t understand or accept them.
Cite?
I’m pretty sure she’s from somewhere on the Iberian Peninsula. Either Spain or Portugal.
And when it happens, its even less frequently that the power/size difference comes into play. Men don’t get hit on by women and do the mental calculation of “if he follows me to my car, could he overpower me?” When a man gets hit on by a woman, he doesn’t often see any threat.
In a world (upper class late Victorian, early Edwardian America) in which the single most important determining factor in a woman’s life was making a good marriage which was conditional on the appearance of pre-marital virginity, young women like Eleanor may not have enjoyed the constant supervision, but they rarely were going to rebel against it. Far too much was at stake. However, in one aspect it was easier for Eleanor Roosevelt to be slightly less guarded with the men she encountered. Her family was rich and powerful. Any inappropriate behavior by men beneath her social status would have resulted in swift and highly vindictive punishment for the men. Ordinary men (white or minority) did not insult upper class women and get away with it. So no doubt the protection of her much higher social status affected her behavior. Using Eleanor Roosevelt, a woman of extraordinary power and privilege, as an example of how current women should be able to ward off male brutality is deplorably laughable.
Because blaming the victim is always appropriate. :rolleyes:
Did you forget were we discussing the viability (or lack thereof) of expecting help from bystanders as a first line of defense? (Or really… as ANY part of a defense strategy?) We’re not discussing my reaction, we’re discussing the reaction of people in a position to – how did you put it? “test out their pumped muscles on some asshole who’s molesting women.”
I’m not sure why you keep digging this hole. Real life experience proves you wrong. The more you argue, the less it appears you have a sound grip on reality. You’re not convincing US – those with personal real life experience – that you’re right, you’re convincing us that perhaps you are blinded by your privilege to near-delusional levels. So who are you trying to convince?
Perhaps you should listen more than you speak on topics you have no personal experience with.
…and “reinforces your own misogynistic attitudes that actively undermine whatever allyship you think you can lay claim to.”
WRT Eleanor Roosevelt – we’re not talking about “feeling inferior” either. We’re talking about being treated as though we are inferior. By those who see fit to assault us. By those who tell us “well jee, maybe it’s YOUR fault no one helped.” (You know, like you did.) By those who refuse to offer help even when it’s in their job description (police, transit employees). I am well aware that I’m not inferior, but that didn’t stop YOU from telling me I was, did it?
Education: http://www.robot-hugs.com/harassment/
Add to this the subtlety of a lot of harassment (you wouldn’t be able to see it from a distance of even a few feet and/or the harasser positions himself intentionally to block the view of bystanders), and the fact that you probably don’t know what a lot of harassment even looks like, I absolutely believe you haven’t seen it. You wouldn’t even when it’s right in front of you.
Don’t make the mistake of conflating your privileged blindness with “y’all are imagining it” though.
WIN.
We’ve never met either, and yet YOU’RE convinced I should be blamed for the bystander effect.
Because somehow other people who have also never met me dislike me SO MUCH that they can’t tolerate the thought of helping me. How they managed to form such an opinion without meeting me, I suppose is left as an exercise for the reader?
(post shortened)
I didn’t blame the victim. I asked whether there was anything that the public might find disagreeable about you. Less face it, some people are more likable than others.
Do men and women still stand up for others who are being harassed and abused? Yes, there are. It appears that you don’t know any. I wonder why.
In case you have forgotten, this thread was started by a man. A man who had questions about “women only” gyms. There were no limitations as to who could, or could not, reply. Regardless of what you prefer.
Boy, it’s a good thing you’re not blaming the victim. I’d hate to see what *that *looks like.
Anna Eleanor Roosevelt grew up in a time before everyone got a trophy for participation. If she wanted to make something happen, she made it happen. She’s said to have been a shy child. Her parents had both died by the time she was 10 years old. She was sent to school in England as a teenager, and married at 21. All of which influenced her later life.
Whether Eleanor was born with a strength of character, or she developed strength of character thru dealing with her peers, adults, and society’s norms, Eleanor became a force to be reckoned with. Eleanor managed to do what needed to be done. Eleanor found a way to solve problems. AFAIC, Eleanor Roosevelt is a role model. The world would be a better place to live if there were more Eleanor Roosevelts.
Anna Eleanor Roosevelt also grew up in a time when she got an automatic and rather substantial advantage (a trophy if you will) for being born into a wealthy, socially prominent family. If she wanted to make something happen, she had the financial resources, social clout and power to make it happen. She was not the average woman of her era or even this era in terms of the status and advantages she had.
So you’re not blaming her, but it’s still her fault?
No, it’s not her fault.
It’s not my fault, either. But people sure seem quick to place blame.
If you wish to discover how best to fix a problem, it’s best to first gather all relative information. Sometimes, you could even ask the opinion of both sexes. Especially on an open forum.
“All men” are being banned from a gym because of what a few specific men might do, even if many men who frequent gyms know how to behave around women cutomers just fine.
Sounds like some are unfairly being tarred with the same brush, or perhaps being found guilty until proven innocent.
Blame though? the blame should be on the jerks who can’t behave themselves, not the rest of us (men or women).
Funny, it sounds to me like you were every bit as guilty of ogling those men as the male oglers you’re criticizing.
Do you have any data to back up this cartoon? I see this stance trotted out often and I’m interested to know if there’s any objective proof behind it or if it’s just an exercise in critical thought. Cause frankly it reads like what a radical feminist with too much time on her hands would come up with if asked why some men make rude comments.
This. The desire for people to be judged on their actions, abilities and character and not their gender is part of the reason why those misogynistic shits at the National Organization for Women are the most noteworthy opponents of women only gyms.
Are you even listening to yourself?
I have no idea what knowing people who stand up for others (I do) has to do with having an expectation that total strangers will behave in the same way.
And now you’re putting words in my mouth. Congratulations, I think you’ve reached the ultimate peak of mansplaining.
Congratulations. You’ve decided to make up words to explain your position. Mansplaining hasn’t even made the Oxford Dictionary yet. Wow. That must be one of those dog-whistle words I’ve heard so much about.
Oxford Dictionary-Mansplain