Recent discussions on the new SDMB subscription policy have revealed a lot of disdain and distrust concerning use of PayPal.
Regarding PayPal, I hear one of two basic arguments (exaggerated for effect):
If you give your CC/banking info to PayPal, your identity will be stolen for certain. Your credit card will be maxed out for certain by bogus purchases. 100% of PayPal users have their identities and personal info stolen and abused. Every last one of them. PayPal freely gives out CC numbers to anyone who asks, and everyone who does so just goes crazy purchasing on stolen cards. PayPal has absolutely no security measures in place. They suck, they suck, they suck!
If you give your CC/banking info to PayPal, your identity cannot be stolen–period. It’s an impossibility. PayPal guards all of it’s CC/banking info vociferously … and criminals, no matter what method they use, cannot get hold of PayPal’s data. PayPal has unbreachable security measures in place. They’re great, they’re great, they’re great!
…
Now, obviously the truth is somewhere in the middle. So what is the deal? And if PayPal is so bad, why is it used so much on the Internet? How can a poorly-run and fraud-laden enterprise keep in operation?
Is it a case where PayPal works great for 99.999% of customers, but when things go wrong for the .001%, it’s a credit-shattering doozy?
FTR, I do not plan to use PayPal myself. But I do see many instances where the simple fact that the SDMB is using PayPal is keeping folks from subscribing. I find that a little disheartening, so I’m hoping to determine whether or not folks’ PayPal fears are truly warranted.
Are PayPal problems like getting struck by lightning five times in one day, or is identity theft a virtual certainty when using PayPal?
I have used Pay Pal for eBay purchases, and had no problems. I remember the first time I encountered Pay Pal, it was on a small website selling craft items. I hadn’t heard much about Pay Pal so I did some research on the 'net and found the same basic things you did - either Pay Pal was the root of all evil, or it was the best thing since sliced bread.
My opinion is pretty moderate. I think a lot of the “Down With Pay Pal!” sentiment came from people who just didn’t read very carefully. I also believe that most of the “credit theft” issues that have resulted were because the victims fell for the classic (and cliche) “We seem to have lost your information, could you send it to us again please?” schtick.
I’ve used Pay Pal many times, for several years. I’ve yet to have my identity stolen. Would I sing their praises? Eh. They’re just Pay Pal.
The day I believe any company is totally secure is the day I send my CC info to the “We have lost your info” schlubs.
IMHO, most people who have problems with PayPal have problems with the companies/people they are buying from, not with the PayPal service itself. They buy something on eBay, aren’t happy, and expect PayPal to refund their money. PayPal isn’t like that, it’s the same if you sent a check or money order and aren’t happy - the Post Office isn’t going to refund your $50 money order because your whiz-gig didn’t work after you got it, neither will PayPal. They aren’t involved in the transaction between buyer and seller, they are just a way to move money quickly and easily. This is why it is very important to check feedbacks on eBay.
I have been using PayPal since shortly after they started, and have not had a single problem.
I signed up for PayPal to pay for SDMB. I was a little worried about it because I have heard horror stories. Boscibo’s post helped clear up how PayPal works. I’ll probably buy a few things on Barnes and Noble.com with it, too.
I don’t see myself encountering problems because I will rarely use it because I’m in college and barely at home.
Have made three dozen purchases using PayPal (all eBay auctions) over the last six or seven years. Never a problem.
My kids both sell stuff on eBay and accept PayPal. They’re happy, too.
Only gripe I have: Changed my name three years ago, and they require copies of my divorce decree to change it! Shoot, the back account this is tied to has the new name, my driver’s license has my new name… can’t find my decree.
I’ve used PayPal for a few years now. I have it set up to fund from either my bank account (instant transfer) or from a credit card. I’ve used it widely on Ebay, in LJ to collect money for various fundraising events for friends and to transfer money between family members. I’ve never had a problem.
I am also a PayPal user, and have had no problems, However, I took some precautions. I applied for a “throwaway” MBNA MasterCard (you know, the “you are pre-approved” offers you get in the mail). Since they said I was pre-approved, I gave them no personal information. They called and asked some questions, but I maintained that since they said I was “pre-approved” they must have all the information they needed already. They sent me the card, and that’s the one I use for PayPal transactions. I have locked the card away and never use it for anything else, so “bogus” transactions will be really easy to spot on my monthly statements.
Um, I’m replying in order to be able to “subscribe to this thread”. I have never used PayPal, and am very nervous abut puytting bank details on the internet. At first, on reding of the subscription plan, I thought, “yes, I am sure that will be OK”, but, having notice th at quite a few people have a serious dislike of PayPal, I now want to educate myself abut its pros and cons, and this thread looks like an excellent opportunity.
Ceylin IMO Paypal itself is perfectly safe. HOWEVER, you have to watch out for malicious use of the paypal name. Paypal will NEVER ask for bank details via e-mail. So be weary of e-mails claiming to be from paypal and asking you to update your information.
I can’t provide any proof to reasure you. All I can say is that as long as you have your head screwed on about the tricks people get up to in e-mails IMO you shouldn’t have a problem with paypal.
In my experience, PayPal errs on the side of security. I’ve found them to be paranoid to the point of incompetence. A few years ago, my cable company was bought out and my email address changed. I used PP so infrequently that I had forgotten my password. Unfortunately, their security procedures involved sending mail to the old account. The procedure for unwinding this was so involved, time-consuming, and bizarre (having them charge something to your credit card and then sending them a photocopy of the bill, or something retarded like that) that I never bothered.
Recently I wanted to get a new PayPal account so I could do a few charitable things on the Net – send books to servicemen and that sort of thing. The next hour was a nightmare of head-wall-pounding proportions. I entered one credit card number, and got “Sorry, that card’s already being used by another account.” Doesn’t matter that the account is in the same name, address, and has been dormant for three years. So I entered a second credit card account. Got something like “In order to verify your address, we need to have you enter your credit card account”. So I entered the card number again. And got: “sorry, that credit card is already registered to this account”.
(I was under the impression that that was the point, but no…). I cycled through this idiotic loop three or four times, thinking I had made some mistake and never got past the verification screen. At this point I was in no way going to give them yet another credit card number, so I blew it off. I’ve never before dealt with a company that tried so actively to not get my business.
Anyway, if you look at the several “PayPal Sucks” sites on the Net, most of the complaints involve them taking vendor’s money and sitting on it while they require baroque, labarynthian verification procedures. Still, most of the speculation is that they are probably not actively evil, just incompetent, overwhelmed by the size of their client base, and obsessed with covering their asses.
What I should have said is, people who’ve had problems with paypal, it might not have been paypal’s fault. It might (as others have said) been an ebay seller’s fault and the blame has been misdirected at paypal. Or they might have fallen for malicious e-mail and blamed paypal again.
Finagle If you’ve changed your address and your e-mail address then it is understandable that paypal wanted to go through such involved procedures. I’d imagine ANY online service involving money would have to have quite involved procedures in the situation of different address and e-mail.
You can’t blame them for having procedures in place to stop fraud that work, but that require (on rare occasions) some work for the customer.
Thanks, folks. Already this thread is being helpful.Lobsang in particular seems quite reassuring.
(Explanatory bit>>>Thing is, I recently had both debit and credit card stolen. (And I suspect I know by whom too. ) One large attempted theft transactionwas stopped in time, thank goodness, and one smaller one did go through. I don?t have one of those nice ?job? things, and don?t have much money, so I am a bit paranoid right now, as any amount can be enough to mess things up. Even apart from the actual money, it?s the sheer hassle of phoning various offices to sort things out etc.).
Question, now, I have a credit card, and I have a debit card - would it be safer to use the debit one, perhaps, or would it make no difference?
HOWEVER, I am gradually getting it into my thick skull that as long as I keep wary of any e-mail demanding that I send them my details again, things should be OK.
Use the debit card for what? Buying groceries? Sure, go ahead. Buying stuff on the internet? Not if you expect to find money in your account the next day.
Their fees are excessive. For my auctions, I pay more for the PayPal auction payment than the eBay listing itself which makes no sense. eBay has to pay for a lot of real resources to run the site, each auction takes significant bandwidth. An electronic payment is a tiny fraction of a second of bits moving around. Not at all comparable. That is clearly gouging.
The agreement PayPal forces you to sign is just a half step away from giving them your first born child. You sign away all rights to every recourse for their screwups. They can do just about anything and you have no legal rights. (Note that some states have successfully sued PayPal over this. So depending over where you live, you might not be as vulnerable.) This is always a red flag. Reputable companies don’t go around forcing people to sign away their legal rights just to do business with them.
While the vast majority of people have not had problems yet, the ones that have had problems have generally gotten royally screwed.
So anecdotal evidence like “it’s worked so far for me” establishes nothing. It’s the other people’s stories that are scary. Very scary.
It is highly skewed towards buyers. Sellers are very exposed. Very exposed.
It is a standard modern American company run by “questionable people”.
Yes, and it wouldn’t hurt to only make your financial transactions from a “trusted” machine. I wouldn’t be typing my PayPal passwords on a public internet machine (e.g. library) or any other place where evil people could have installed keysniffing software or viruses.
I’ve used Paypal to buy up to the limit of my unverified account ($1500?), and then I stopped with about $4 left in the kitty because I am not going to give anyone access to my bank account. After you use up your limit, you have to become Verified, or I guess they prevent you from doing business on the net through them. I dunno, haven’t bothered to check it out.
FTR, I’ve never had a problem with Paypal itself. However, five or six eBay sellers that I did business with turned out to be thieves, and there is nothing you can do about it. You just get ripped off.
Paypal has worked fine for me in most cases, and it’s nice to get paid immediately instead of waiting on the snailmail check shuffle. The only real gripes I have are that sellers (and 95% of my transactions is as a seller) can get stuck after the fact if the buyers account is overdrawn. I had this almost happen once for a little $40 deal, but the buyer had simply overdrawn her account and fixed the problem quickly.
My main issue with Paypal is that, relative to services rendered, the Paypal fees charged to the seller are simply highway robbery when selling pricey items like notebook PCs or things that goes for hundreds to thousands of dollars. In terms of real service rendered it’s absurd to charge a nearly flat rate for all transactions. In the end all it does is drive up the price fo the sale since I have to load the paypal fee into my “buy it now” prices, and most every other seller is doing the same thing.
On a $934.95 notebook sale (unit + shipping) the paypal fee was **27.41.** This is 27.41 to do the same damn thing it would have done (in operational terms) with a 20.00 purchase. I'm amazed some competing service provider is not going after this lucrative business hammer and tong. I wouldn't mind, say a 10. fee for the notebook transaction, but to charge nearly $ 30.00 is criminal.
But they’ve got you unless you want to wait on a check, and they are convenient.
) One large attempted theft transactionwas stopped in time, thank goodness, and one smaller one did go through. I don?t have one of those nice ?job? things, and don?t have much money, so I am a bit paranoid right now, as any amount can be enough to mess things up. Even apart from the actual money, it?s the sheer hassle of phoning various offices to sort things out etc.).