What's the True Cost of Mass Immigration?

manhattan · October 8, 2002, 11:54pm

Not my yob, mon!

Duck_Duck_Goose · October 9, 2002, 12:09am

Okay, most of the links are “Page Not Found”. One explanation of this might be that they might occur in the middle of Copy and Pasted quotes from other people, the old news items to which they once referred having long since expired.

These links work.

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20020925-11624656.htm Deals with drug smuggling across the U.S.-Mexican border.
http://www.thenewsmexico.com/noticia.asp?id=36005 “Border town’s residents want more protection from Mexican gangs”
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,49045,00.html “More Immigrants on Welfare Despite Reform”
http://www.herald-sun.com/evergreen/93-270453.html “Hispanics’ search for a better life pushes Durham deeper into poverty”
http://www.vdare.com/francis/fox_plans.htm Anti-Vincente Fox piece by one “Sam Francis”.
http://www.thenewsmexico.com/noticia.asp?id=36033 “Texas agriculture commissioner discusses Mexico water debt”

http://www.numbersusa.com Anti-immigration website.
http://www.americanpatrol.com Anti-immigration website.
http://www.fairus.org Anti-immigration website.
http://www.vdare.com Anti-immigration website

The rest of these links don’t work:

Guinastasia · October 9, 2002, 12:17am

Okay, everyone here whose ancestors came from Europe pack up and go home.

Guess what? Every WHITE person is a descendent of immigrants. If you want to go this route, then you better be prepared to give the land back to the Native Americans.

I mean, d’uh.

Lynn_Bodoni · October 9, 2002, 12:20am

{Note: I removed the color coding}

No, we don’t, no, there isn’t, nobody here for you to talk to…you might have better luck at another message board, why don’t you try elsewhere? Obviously we are all too stupid to get your message, you’re wasting your time here.

This is not the message board you’re looking for. Move along.

Lynn

Guinastasia · October 9, 2002, 12:26am

This quote has so much sig potential!!!

May I, manny?

Brutus · October 9, 2002, 12:32am

From my understanding, even the ‘natives’ came across the Bering Straights oh! so long ago. Methinks they need to go back to wherever they came from as well.

andros · October 9, 2002, 12:36am

The Dope can have a strong influence on the weak-minded.

Captain_Amazing · October 9, 2002, 12:36am

Who was it? I’m thinking it was Yakoff Smirnov, but it’s not his kind of humor…

Anyway, somebody asked him (or whoever it was) about his citizenship, and what he thought of when he was naturalized and took the oath to become a citizen. He answered, “The first thing I thought is ‘We need to do something about all those damn foreigners coming to America and taking our jobs.’”

Duck_Duck_Goose · October 9, 2002, 12:43am

Therefore, since most of the existing cites in the OP are useless, I’d like to see cites to support the following statements in the OP:
[ul]
[li] 1 in 3 persons in jail in California are Mexican nationals[/li][li] 1 in 3 jail beds have an Immigrant sleeping in them[/li][li] It costs about $35,000/year to keep 1 person in jail[/li][li] schools are packed full of ILLEGALS CHILDREN [/li][li] teachers are forced to spend 90% of their time, energy, and money working with ILLEGAL children[/li][li] American children are getting screwed out of an education[/li][li] ILLEGALS and IMMIGRANTS are going on the cheap [to university][/li][li] many doctors and healthcare workers are fleeing these high immigration states [/li][li] Millions of ILLEGAL Immigrants are getting health care that is being denied to Americans[/li][li] Millions of Immigrants are getting a free ride for themsleves and their children [/li][li] Immigrants have 6.7 children per family[/li][li] a study in 1998 found that on average for every 1 immigrant we add to our nation, the total cost is about $55,000 to our govenmental systems[/li][li] Immigrants don’t pay taxes[/li][li] the upper Midwest is now the home of MILLIONS of ARABS and MUSLIMS[/li][li] the upper Midwest is now working to stop support of Isreal[/li][li] the upper Midwest is now working to stop support of the war on Saddam[/li][li] there is now open talk of the Southwestern US leaving the Union[/li][li] Over the last 30 years we have IMPORTED about 40,000,000 hispanics (mostly MExicans) [/li][li] Many of these immigrants are now calling for their own nation, called “Atzland”, which will include California, NV,NM,TX, and parts of CO[/li][/ul]

**Well, let’s just see here, what IS the score? So far you’ve made a lot of wild unsubstantiated statements, backed up by, like, zero facts. Why don’t you go find some actual facts to support your statements, and then we’ll talk?

**Well, if we had some real FACTS, then we would certainly talk about them. But we don’t seem to have any. Hey, since it’s your thread, why don’t you be the one to go find us some real FACTS?

“Atzland” seems to be a construct that exists only in the fevered imagination of the American Patrol website, according to Google. Got any other cites?

Oh, lookie here, I found one. :rolleyes: Notice the correct spelling, not to mention the slightly different interpretation.

http://www.diversityalliance.org/docs/Chang-aztlan.html

The radicals seek nothing less than secession from the United States whether to form their own sovereign state or to reunify with Mexico. Those who desire reunification with Mexico are irredentists who seek to reclaim Mexico’s “lost” territories in the American Southwest.4 Whatever their goals, what animates all of them is the dream of Aztlan.

According to legend, Aztlan was the ancestral homeland of the Aztecs which they left in journeying southward to found Tenochtitlan, the center of their new civilization, which is today’s Mexico City. Today, the “Nation of Aztlan” refers to the American southwestern states of California, Arizona, Texas, New Mexico, portions of Nevada, Utah, Colorado, which Chicano nationalists claim were stolen by the United States and must be reconquered (Reconquista) and reclaimed for Mexico.5 The myth of Aztlan was revived by Chicano political activists in the 1960s as a central symbol of Chicano nationalist ideology. In 1969, at the Chicano National Liberation Youth Conference in Denver, Rodolfo “Corky” Gonzales put forth a political document entitled El Plan de Aztlan (Spiritual Plan of Aztlan).6 The Plan is a clarion call to Mexican-Americans to form a separate Chicano nation…

So, there are a few Hispanic people, described as “radicals”, who want to secede from the United States and form their own country, called “Atzlan”. Do you have any idea how stupid it sounds to blow that up into the statement, “Many of these immigrants are now calling for their own nation!”? Hint: it’s big.

And as long as you’re looking up some real FACTS–living in the Midwest as I do, I’m especially interested in knowing where all those “millions of Arabs and Muslims” are hiding. :rolleyes:

Guinastasia · October 9, 2002, 12:49am

I just realized-I can’t go back to where I came from. Because then I’d have to split myself into five pieces!

One for Hungary
One for Ireland
One for Germany
One for Poland
One for Slovakia
What’s a gal to do?

Pythagoras · October 9, 2002, 3:03am

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Duck Duck Goose *
Therefore, since most of the existing cites in the OP are useless, I’d like to see cites to support the following statements in the OP:
[ul]
[li] 1 in 3 persons in jail in California are Mexican nationals[/li][li] 1 in 3 jail beds have an Immigrant sleeping in them[/li]
[/QUOTES]

Id also like to see a citation for these statistics. I wonder how many of these people are illegal immagrants staying a night in a jail until the INS figures out what to do with them.

[QUOTE]
[li] It costs about $35,000/year to keep 1 person in jail[/li][/QUOTE]

My understanding is there is a distinction between ‘jail’ and ‘prison’ in that jails are more long term. Also, if my earlier hypothesis is true, I doubt they cost more than 50 bucks/night if that.

I’d be interested to know the degree to which a state or municipality can tax “Illegals” or people in the nation without citizenship. If they do get taxed, and they get taxed in parallel with ‘white’ residents, then this point is null and void - they have the same amount of money per family. So they can get more teachers, more schools, more everything and nobody is deprived.

[li] many doctors and healthcare workers are fleeing these high immigration states [/li][li] Millions of ILLEGAL Immigrants are getting health care that is being denied to Americans[/li][li] Millions of Immigrants are getting a free ride for themsleves and their children[/li][li] Immigrants have 6.7 children per family[/li][li] a study in 1998 found that on average for every 1 immigrant we add to our nation, the total cost is about $55,000 to our govenmental systems[/li][li] Immigrants don’t pay taxes[/li]
[/QUOTES]

Again, Id like to see some more solid statistics. I dont understand why we should be afraid of these people. Im all for making them all U.S. citizens, sounds like it would be easier to tax them.

[QUOTES]

[li] the upper Midwest is now the home of MILLIONS of ARABS and MUSLIMS[/li][li] the upper Midwest is now working to stop support of Isreal[/li][li] the upper Midwest is now working to stop support of the war on Saddam[/li]
[/QUOTES]

So what? You may think this is bad, but its perfectly within their right. And pssh… all Muslims are not terrorists, and I doubt you are making them want to stay that way by making catch-all generalizations. There was a bunch of idiots running aronud here setting off fertilizer bombs, everyone was a little suprised when it turned out they were set by white morons with nothing better to do.

[QUOTES]

[li] there is now open talk of the Southwestern US leaving the Union[/li][li] Over the last 30 years we have IMPORTED about 40,000,000 hispanics (mostly MExicans) [/li][li] Many of these immigrants are now calling for their own nation, called “Atzland”, which will include California, NV,NM,TX, and parts of CO[/li][/ul]
**

That would be moronic of them if they came here with the premise of getting better services. Maybe there’s some Mexicans who want the lands we conquered back…

chula · October 9, 2002, 3:14am

You’ve got it backwards. Jails are generally for those awaiting trial, and prisons are for those you have been convicted. I doubt KKK caught the distinction though.

Eva_Luna · October 9, 2002, 3:40am

To elaborate a bit further, in my 3-1/2 years working for the Office of the Immigration Judge, I was present at literally thousands of deportation hearings. Nearly without exception, able-bodied undocumented immigrants work. Given, this is anecdotal, but of the cases I saw tried on the merits, probably 80-90% of the respondents were employed on the books, usually with false papers of some sort.

All those employed on the books had taxes witheld from their wages, and given their generally low wages and family size, nearly without exception would have been eligible for a tax refund. How many of them filed for a refund? Zero, because they are afraid that the IRS will share information with INS, and they’ll be deported. So all that money stays with the U.S. Treasury. How many of these undocumented immigrants have access themselves to the bulk of the benefits that their taxes pay for? (I’m talking about the undocumented workers themselves; I hope you’ll agree that even brown children should not be forced to pay for the arguable misdeeds of their parents.) Essentially none, for the same reasons.

As for the rest of your post, KKK: partly because I’m still sick and lack the energy to do a point-by-point essay right now, and partly because your post makes me want to puke, I’ll leave its dissection to the rest of the able-minded crew here at the SDMB. If there are leftover bits tomorrow, I may take another crack at it then.

Apos · October 9, 2002, 4:23am

—Well, I don’t normally bother to consider libertarians, given their highly bounded rationality.—

Is that an insult, or a compliment? Regardless, it’s a little misplaced: the libertarian arguements in this case aren’t so much solely empirical, they’re moral. There’s something distinctly wrong about treating people differently depending on their citizenship, and in preventing people from trading with who they want to.

—Meanwhile, these are people who consume public resources without paying for them via taxes. If we’re not going to bother enforcing our borders, then we should at least make sure that everyone who does come here becomes registered somehow.—

If people can get by without paying taxes, I’m not horribly upset about that. What’s the difference between supporting a tax cut and supporting some people (poor people especially) not paying taxes? That’s more than a little inconsistent: it’s tantamount to demanding a massive tax increase on the poorest citizens (the ones most likely to spend all their incomes). Aren’t tax increases, especially in a recession, bad? Why advocate them?

I think the only real rationale for tax increases on immigrants is fairness. But it’s not any sort of “fairness” as far as “paying for your fair share of governmental services” because if such a rationale existed, we wouldn’t have progressive taxation to begin with.

Pythagoras · October 9, 2002, 5:01pm

Im curious to what degree this assertion is correct:

“Illegal Immigrants take jobs that U.S. citizens would not.”

That is, are the jobs they are taking really desired by Americans? Are there honestly Americans losing their jobs to illegal immigrants? Or do illegal immigrant’s jobs constitute things that Americans wouldnt be caught dead doing?

photopat · October 9, 2002, 5:04pm

I just noticed that Kuku hasn’t had any posts in a while. It seems that once his bizarre assertions are challenged he has nothing to say.
Also, not to hijack the thread, but jails do serve as “prisons” in smaller communities or for criminals whose sentences are short, or for minor infractions. My father was a county sheriff and we lived at the jail in my home town for nine years. During that time we had many inmates who served their entire sentence in our jail, as well as some who were transferred to state facilities.

Kukulkon · October 9, 2002, 7:56pm

Wow!
You can sure tell when you hit a nerve cant ya?
I know the truth hurts you Libs, but please allow me to move on here.

lets see where were we?
"I’m sure you have some lovely points to make, i’m just not interested in all the homework assignments. "
…yes I understand way toooo much for you to read,dont want to stop you from keeping up with your 4.9 posts on Straight Dopes website per day!

“the coup de grace - the use of colored text, convinced me that we must close our borders immediately.”
Glad to be help Sua, not that you had much to say on the actual subject at hand !

“So. You just hate non-white immigrants?”
Ahhh…the post was about Immigration…not race or ethnic groups Sir/Miss

"Originally posted by the xenophobe in the OP "
Ahhh…I guess your talking about me? Cite please?

"Does that mean I have to send half of myself back to Europe? "
Ahhh…The post didnt mention Deportation at all really so in not sure what post your reading here?

“my ancestors were immigrants, from several different countries. Which one should I go to?”
Well as I said Sir/Miss I didnt even really talk about deporting people who are already in America…again, what post are you people reading?

“So sorry that we have disappointed you, Kukulkon. Better luck at your next internet message board. Bye, now.”
You have gotta love this chick…not only does she not have anything to say on this subject…shes got nothing to say Twice??? (gotta keep up that 4.9 posts per day on Straight dopes web site dont wanted let that number fall…gotta pad those stats ehhh sua??/)

here is another Brain on the old dope: “Tars”

"Probably because most “REAL AMERICAN” kids are lazy bums, while the immigrant children work hard to make their life better, and earn scholarships (that the “REAL AMERICAN” kids are too dumb to earn) "

Ahhhh…hey tars, dude…we are talking about ILLEGALS getting their university education paid for by the American Tax payer (thats me)…NOT SCHOLARSHIPS…O.K? (i mean IF your going to post, at least know what your posting about Porfavor?

"Teashers spend most of their time on the problem students, not the immigrant students. My mother is a teacher at a school that is getting more and more students that speak Spanish as a native language. They are not the problem. The “Real American” children are. "

You mother may well be a teasher…BUT…as any good Biologist knows a Sample size of… 1… is not a really a very scientific sample size…Right Mr. Biologist Sir?

“I AM a biologist, and this is pretty much correct. However, immigration is not the problem, overpopulation is. What ever that serpent talk means??? The US has a lot of open spaces, and can support many more people.”

What ever dude…I suggest you read the
Interview with Earth Day Founder Gaylord Nelson He named population as the #1 environmental problem, then went on to say, “But in this country, it’s phony to say[/COLOR] ‘I’m for the environment but not for limiting immigration.’ It’s just a fact that we can’t take all the people who want to come here.” again homie!

“Maybe they{all the teachers in the USA] could learn Spanish?”
…Right!! Fantastic “logic” there Mr. Scientist Sir!!! (I smell a Nobel peace prize here !!!

“I agree that immigration to Massechusettes is horrible. I wouldn’t want to live there”
Actually the vast majority of ALL Americans dont really want to live ANYWHERE that Massive numbers of Immigrants are flooding into…thats why Whites have been fleeing California for years…and in the last 10 years Blacks and Jews are running out of California to avoid all of these issues!

“I AM a Californian, and i NEVER drive to work (like i want to pay $18 a day parking). So this is WRONG and a LIE.”
Once again Mr. Biologist Sir, I know that Mass Immigation has pretty much destroyed the educational system in California …But they must still make you guys take Statistics there at the University right?

…and you must have learned that a sample size of…1
isnt really a very scientific sample size right?
(BTW tars…I dont think that the study meant literally…Every single human in the state…O.K…Mr. Biologist???)

"So Urban Sprawl is entirely the Immigrants fault? "
NO…Its the American peoples fault for importing more people than our natural stystems can support! Im sure in your study of Biology you must have learned something about Ecology right?

"So buy a bike, or take the bus. and Shut yer yap! "

[COLOR] Well thats one idea anyway…hmmm interesting…to be honest Sir I think that taking control of our Borders and getting a handle on our Immigration Issues would be the choice of the Vast majority of Americans (of all races and creeds)[/COLOR]

…and indeed thats what the Zogby POLLS have shown very clearly…a FULL ~85% of ALL Americans reject ILLEGALS in any form…moreover a FULL ~75% of ALL Americans want to stop the flood of Mass. Immigration!

“Just means more women to turn me down for dates!!”
Yea…with debate skills like this I can see that.

****Tars rant is over at this point moving on:

“Why is this racist troll still here?”

Troll? Racist? Cite please???

"I think it is fair, however, to point out that it is probably true that some forms of immigration probably have a depressing effect on some segments of the labor market’s compensation (supply up, demand… up as much?) - e.g. lower skilled labor. "

…I my god I found someone on Stiaght Dope that actually THINKS!
(and is fair in his/her posts…I salute you Sir/Miss!!!)
This Bosda Di’Chi of Tricor is also of the highest character…I love this dude…check out these “enlightened” posts(that have nothing at all to do with the subject at hand).

“Mulitcolored racial posts”.
WOO-HOO! Good one, Tars. "
Friend…if you can cite som of this silly Bull Sh!t please do…other than that, Tars just got taken to school…so he may need your TLC today!

"Since the only color Kuk likes is white, he should only post in that color. And if he posts white on white, we won’t be able to read his posts! An obvious advantage. "
HAHAHAHAHAHAH “Woooo-hooooo” that a great one!!! BTW if you can CITE any of your attacks PLEASE SHOW US ALL THE PROOF OF YOUR COMMENTS…Homie???

Then this brain says:

“Kukulkon – the SDMB is a place where educated & refined people gather together to exhange their views in good conversation & good fellowship, & thereby gain enlightenment.
Lurk awhile, & learn something”
I think that we all can see the high levels of your education and refined nature WOOO-HOOOO…and you obviously have some deep “enlightenment” to share as per your posts above…very…very…clear…"enlightenment"Bosda Di’Chi of Tricor

Moving on:

"this is a really interesting topic, and you’re screwing it up for the rest of us by being what we in the mental health profession refer to as an a**hole "

[COLOR=red]…Im an @ss Hole ehhh?
Can you CITE some examples for us all…I would love to see your “logic” here homie???

“it’s not that people here aren’t intelligent, well educated or interested in genuine debate”
Ohhhh…nooo, how did you even get that idea? Its here for all to see and read isnt it?

"they don’t care what your point was "

To be honest I question if half the Brains here even understand what this post is all about…and most obviously didnt even read the post at all (yet still posted to it anyway…kinda shows the
level of education i think!)

“i may go back and read some of the urls you attached, but i won’t likely discuss them with you”

Well that puts you on top of most of these people anyway…at least you did read some of the information so I salute you Sir/Miss!

“it’s that when you beat someone on the head with a club (or hate speech) and then present them with more hate rhetoric”

Can you CITE some of my…ahhh…“hate rhetoric” for us…PLEASE???

" am firmly in support of more immigration. Of course, I live in a relatively underpopulated country…But I live in Canada"

O.K. Very well Mr. Rick, but this thread was all about the USA…so in reality the rest of your post means little to our naiton right? Maybe correct for Canada (i dont know) but Im in the USA …Sir!

"Cmments about the ~20,000,000 Americans without Jobs

So prove that has something to do with immigration. Prove there’s a negative impact here. Mexico has far less immigration and a far higher unemployment rate, doesn’t it?"

Rick…is real simple Sir We have ~20,000,000 who cant get JOBS…and…~15,000,000 ILLEGALS WHO HAVE JOBS IN THE USA…got it?

"The education system[in the USA] is not being “destroyed.” What a silly claim. "
Actaully I was thinking the same thing…how “SILLY” for a guy who lives in CANADA to be telling me how it is in AMERICA with our Immigration issues and the state of our AMERICAN healthcare system…will you get real here?

"I’m sorry, but where is your evidence that high immigration results in high taxes? "
RICK…is real easy dude, Who do you think PAYS for ALL THE SERVICES IMMIGRANTS NEED? HELLOOOOOO…THE TAX PAYERS RICK…(Somebody wake this “economist” up for us please!)
I love this Rick guy…he great,check this one out:

"Yes, there’s just so much secession talk going around. "
[COLOR=blue] like some dude in CANADA would even know what kinda talk is going around in CALIFORNIA or TEXAS…Right?

…BTW…Rick…been to Quebec any time in the last 10 or 20 years my friend…cause I have, and the “talks” sure going around!!!

I LOVE THIS ONE SO MUCH:
“shaw. If you want to fix the environment, fix it. Reducing the population is not a fix; you may delay the inevitable but that’s all.”

Rick…if you get the chance please consider reading at the top of this page the words of Doctor Gaylord…the Founder of EARTHDAY…and the other SCIENTISTS:

"Interview with Earth Day Founder Gaylord Nelson He named population as the #1 environmental problem, then went on to say, “But in this country, it’s phony to say ‘I’m for the environment but not for limiting immigration.’ It’s just a fact that we can’t take all the people who want to come here.”

"Gaylord Nelson, 84, now counselor to the Wilderness SocietyHis zest for conservation propelled him from a seat in the Wisconsin Senate into the governorship in 1958, the first Democrat to occupy the office in 25 years. By 1962, he had broadened his environmental horizons, winning election to the U.S. Senate, where he served until swept from office by incoming Reagan Republicans in 1980. By then, he was better known nationally and internationally as the founder of Earth Day, April 22, 1970, a kind of coast-to-coast teach-in that involved 20 million people. At a conference of grass roots environmental groups in Oshkosh this weekend sponsored by the River Alliance and the Gathering Waters Conservancy, Nelson responded to these "

“No matter what you do with conservation, it won’t be enough. There’s too much demand.”

Shortly after the first Earth Day in 1970, the President’s Commission on Population Growth and America’s Future urged Congress to act with alacrity to stabilize the population of 200 million. Ecologists such as Paul and Anne Ehrlich of Stanford University peg 150 million as the maximum level consonant with long-term habitat preservation."

by the way Rick…you must not know yet…but the American population growth rate IS VERY STABLE!!(has been for ohhh about
20 years now!!!)
!! ALL OF OUR POPULAITON ISSUES ARE FROM IMMIGRATION RICK…helloooooo ???

…GOT THAT RICK?
(sure hope your a better “economist” than you are a “scientist”…Sir!)
" second greck’s comments. Our immigration methodoology here needs some serious improvement, but people like the OP do nothing but give those who dare address the problem a bad name, by creating the impression that immigration reform is only desired by evil xenophobic demons. "

Well at least you can think…very nice Sir.Miss…But the rest of that is without merit or examples, and IMHO just your justcover’in your
ass with the Savages who seem to have made this website their home…you know their wrong, but dont want
the beating im getting…I can understand why!

“because young men don’t really need much in terms of health care”
…Well I dont know what they need…But I do know that nearly ALL of the High Immigration states are having Major issues with unpaid HEALTHCARE FOR IMMIGANTS (and ill be psoting tons of this information for you all very shortly!!)

"So, how much does your family contribute to the good of the United States? "
I have a better question for you…Sir/Miss…What does that question have to do with this subject???

“Shutup, and spend some time reading. There is an incredible pool of free knowledge here. Study how some posters put out clear, cohesive, and well-supported posts”

I have its very clear…your so right!

Well let me tell you something Sir…Its as plain as day for all to see right here, I mean why would you even have to mention the “increadible pool of knowlegde here”??? Its all right here in Black, and red, and blue…cant you see it…look harder…harder!
"hat’s because our esteemed colleague obviously has has little or no acquaintence with the social history of the US southwest. The word is “Aztlan”.

Here’s a link explaining its etymology and relevance, if any, to the debate:

http://www.azteca.net/aztec/aztlan.html"

…WRONG…I am well aware that Mexico LOST THAT WAR and those lands!!! (dont the truth hurt!)

Duck Duck Goose…Sorry about the Links not working…I will find them and POST THEM ASAP…afterall I wanted you all to see them!

“he Dope can have a strong influence on the weak-minded”
Sure seems to be having that effect on many of the people in this “debate”!!

“ell, if we had some real FACTS, then we would certainly talk about them. But we don’t seem to have any. Hey, since it’s your thread, why don’t you be the one to go find us some real FACTS?”
Sure will…just had to spend a hour dealing with the kids here, next the adults will talk (once the kids are all in bed!)

PLEASE NOTE THIS ONE:

Comments about the high crime rates of Immigrants

Do you have a cite proving this?

THEN:
"ccording to the Federal Bureau of Prisons website:www.bop.gov/fact0598.htm,
nationwide (I couldn’t find the stats for California alone) the prison population of hispanics[/] is 31.7%, however Mexicans claiming Mexican citizenship account for 16%. So, whoever Kuku gets his “facts” from probably just lumped them all together. "

AT THIS POINT…
El_Kabong says:
“Right. Thus bullshit, as I said. I would expect that most of his/her/it’s facts are equally reliable”

Ahhhhhhhhhhhh??? Right?..Nooooooo…Correct is what you mean to say Sir (If your an honest man!)…I said that about 1/3 of the beds in our system had Immigratns sleeping in them…and as has been shown I was very correct…SIR!!!

DONT WORRY NO NEED TO SAY…SORRY…FOR BEING WRONG!
(and trying to slander me…for no reason!)

Kukulkon

…now that the kids are all in bed, Well have an adult debate (or try to anyway!) I will be a post’in all these links, but i dont have the same 23 hours a day to sit on the computer like some of you!
BTW…out of all these childish posts…few even wanted to talk about the issues …as a hint to all of you (you know who you are) may i suggest that in the future…if you dont really have anything to say ON POINT…ON SUBJECT…OF INTELLEGENCE.

try to have the self control…to NOT POST…and make yourself look silly!(O.K.?)

moreover…those of you who have like…4.9 posts per day average???
You have a major issue! You need help!!! No wonder you cant handle a basic debate ON SUBJECT

…you’all need to get out more, and chill on the Computer for a bit…IMHO!

minty_green · October 9, 2002, 8:08pm

Move along, nothing to see here.

photopat · October 9, 2002, 8:18pm

Wheeeee!

lionel · October 9, 2002, 8:22pm

I just couldn’t leave that one alone, I don’t know about Califonia but I have lived in Texas all of my life and try to stay up with the overall political climate in this state and I can honestly say I have never heard any talk about secceding.

Except for those republic of Texas loonies, but that’s a different matter

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What's the True Cost of Mass Immigration?

"Cmments about the ~20,000,000 Americans without Jobs

Comments about the high crime rates of Immigrants

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