Whats wrong with "back yard breeders"?

Great Debates
1

Rather than sidetrack another thread, thought I’d ask this here.

I’ve heard this term a lot recently both among my friends in the animal adoption community and now on these boards. They seem to be the boogie man de jour.

IMO there is nothing INHERENTLY wrong with backyard breeders. That’s not to say, I’m sure, that there aren’t some terribly irresponsible private breeders (just as there are terribly irresponsible rescue agencies). But I grew up in family that bred puppies. We had a unfixed female and when every few years (when my folks felt they could deal with the hassle) we found a suitable stud and produce awesome puppies that were sold to (as far as we could work out) responsible owners. No one made much of a profit and good family-friendly dogs found good families (and the kids in our family got valuable life lessons, and got to play with awesome puppies for a few weeks). I really don’t see anything wrong with that.

I realize there are dogs that could be adopted, but there seems to be inherent logical paradox here. All those dogs must have come from a breeder of some kind originally. If you are saying no one should breed dogs then there will be no dogs any more either for sale or adoption.

In reality if you ban private breeding you are actually saying only puppies should only come from massive for-profit puppy farms (who can afford all the red tape associated with registering themselves as breeders with the state) or irresponsible owners who ignore the law and let their dogs breed with whatever unfixed male finds them first.

2

My problem with back-yard breeders is, not all of them care if the puppies go to responsible owners. Or their definition of “responsible owner” is “someone who can come up with however much money I’m asking for”.

Obviously, it’s bad for the animals to go to a home that doesn’t measure up. But it’s not just bad for the animals, especially when the animals are large breed dogs. Irresponsible dog owners’ animals don’t just injure or kill the people living with the irresponsible owner (though that is who is most at risk). They can harm neighbors as well, or people who are just passing through.

I’m not against animal breeders. What I am against is animal breeders that sell animals on a no-questions-asked basis, to anyone who can come up with the money. It doesn’t sound from your post like your family acted that way.

3

Isn’t this an issue for anyone that breeds (not just backyard breeders)?

4

Yeah, I don’t see pet stores running background checks or anything.

5

Exactly and “backyard breeders” seem much more likely to do this responsibly than a big commercial breeder.

6

There’s an overpopulation of backyards already. You should adopt a stray backyard from the pound, rather than buying one from a backyard breeder. And be a responsible yard owner, and make sure to spay or neuter your backyard.

(sorry, I couldn’t resist)

7

I’m against pet stores selling dogs and cats.

Responsible breeders and shelters do some checking into people who want to take home one of their animals. I don’t think dogs or cats should be available without that checking.

I’m aware that, in the real world, they will be, since there are people who have money, should not have dogs, but want dogs (say, someone wanting a guard dog for their meth lab).

8

I think that BYB are the most convenient people to blame. Humans like simple solutions to complex problems and even better if we can blame others. Sort of how McDonalds makes us fat. If we as a society only replaced our pets when they perished demand would sink and BYB would all but disappear. Part of the problem is that there is no individual economic cost to get rid of our animals. We do that because the alternative, abandonment, is worse. On the other hand it makes it very easy for breeders to clear out excess inventory. It also makes taking a dog to the shelter the cheapest and easiest solution to any problem. Blaming the BYB breeder is like blaming Colombia for America’s cocaine problem.

9

This is what people mean when they talk “backyard breeders.” That, and people who will mate any shitty looking “purebred” to any other shitty looking purebred. People who don’t vaccinate, don’t neuter, don’t try to avoid the more common genetic defects. This type of “breeder” is a step above puppy mills ONLY in their relatively lower volume.

I can’t say I find it offensive if a family breeds a litter once every couple of years or so and gives or sell them to people they know to be solid owners, who socialize and train their dogs properly, vaccinate, neuter, worm, etc. appropriately. That said, the vast majority of domestic animals should not be bred, ever.

And no, I do not believe there is anyone who thinks that puppy mills are a better solution. That’s a strange red herring you’re throwing out there. Puppy mills are bad. Uncontrolled small time breeding is also bad.

I don’t agree that backyard breeders are more likely than registered AKC breeders to breed carefully, in limited quantities, and to promote the overall good of the breed.

10

Four million cats and dogs—about one every eight seconds—are put down in U.S. shelters each year.

The last thing the world needs is MORE animals being brought into the world. The are already too many doggies. The more that are born, the more that will die.

11

Which shows that dogs are being bred, by someone. There is a basic logical paradox here. If we are saying “breeding dogs is bad” and follow that through to its logical conclusion then there will be no more dogs.

In reality by banning all private breeders. We are insuring the ONLY people who breed dogs are puppy mills and people who ignore the law. Neither of whom are going to be responsible about it.

12

“Backyard Breeders” are people who, let’s say, bought a puppy with papers from the flea market, or whatever, and have a buddy with the same kind of dog, and decide to make some puppies! Or they buy another dog and decide to make some puppies! Or they think, “well, my maltese is cute, and beagles are cute, let’s make some Maltesles!!”

The common threads in all the scenarios are these:
[ul]
[li]the breeder has never shown their dog; in other words, they do not care about confirmation to the breed[/li][li]the breeder has done no health checks, and most likely has no idea about what can be passed down genetically; in other words, they are not breeding healthy dogs[/li][li]the breeder has no long term plan; in other words, if one of these puppies, now grown, has to be re-homed, the breeder will not be responsible for the life they created[/li][li]the breeder has no education, no idea what a sound dog is, or looks like; in other words, the breeder is creating dogs that may eventually have problems with their hips, etc.[/li][/ul]

Big commercial breeders (aka puppy mills) are definitely not the answer either. If anything, they are worse! Take everything I said before, and add in cruelty and profit motive, and you have a puppy mill.

Good responsible breeders are people who breed to produce the finest possible dogs from the one (or maybe two) breed(s) they have devoted themselves too. They show their dogs. They work their dogs. They spend all their free time doing dog “stuff”, including rescue. They do not make money off the puppies they sell; they do it because they love dogs. Their dogs are healthy, and sound, and are amazing representatives of their breed- champions. That is what a good breeder is, and if someone needs a specific breed for whatever reason (hunting, agility, etc.) this is where they should go to get such a dog.

If someone just wants a nice dog to love and cuddle, they should rescue one.

It is true that if everyone in the world stopped breeding irresponsibly, there wouldn’t be any need for shelters, and there would be no dogs to adopt. To me, this is a slippery slope in the same way that if everyone got gay married the human population would die out; true enough, but not really going to happen, you know?

In the meantime, we have huge numbers of these dogs being bred, and showing up with health and behavior problems as a natural consequence of this kind of irresponsibility. In that situation, you can see why people who work rescue get pretty mad about backyard breeders.

13

None of which would have applied to my family. One of our dogs was theoretically pedigree, but never registered or shown, the other was a generic terrier type. But both had great temperaments (and my mum put a lot of effort into finding a mate with equally good temperaments.

I disagree strongly that there is a correlation between “responsible” breeders and breeders of pedigree dogs. In fact given the health problems associated with some breeds I could argue the reverse (though won’t get into that here).

Its a perfectly reasonable thing for a responsible pet own to decide to breed their dog if they think its has good traits they want to pass on the population as a whole, whether or not the dog in question is pedigree.

14

Hey, what my wife and I do in the privacy of our own back yard is our business, not that snooty peek-through-the-hedges crazy old coot that lives next door.

And we swear we thought the gate was locked!

15

In a world with so many awesome dogs in it being euthanized every day, I am going to have to disagree. The only reason to breed is because you are devoted to a specific breed, you have that rare bitch who is a champion; a shining example of her breed, and you have access to a truly remarkable stud.* Anything less is simply unnecessary. There will always be oopsie litters, and, unfortunately, irresponsible breeders. Those people provide the lovable mutts of the world.

Also, I want to be clear. I have no idea what a “pedigree breeder” is; I’ve never heard that term before. If it means people who breed two dogs simply because they “have papers” then I agree they SHOULD NOT be breeding.
*in addition to being devoted to caring for every puppy produced fromthe breeding for as long as they live, etc.

16

Most internet discussions of dogs are dominated by show breeders. Like everything else, some knock the competition. It is a dog eat dog world.

As I understand it:

1 They compete with show breeders.

2 They don’t health test.

3 They sell puppies too soon. Never mind that all the studies show puppies need socialization between 6-12 weeks.

4 They don’t breed to standards. This includes those nefarious souls that breed the vary smallest puppies that many people want. (Teacups) Also _______doodles and other cross breeds.

5 They place puppies with anybody with green money.

Now the question is, how much better are show breeders? I am sure some do follow the high standards they demand others do. But all of them? If so, why do show dogs have the reputation for being sickly and foul tempered?

One thing we need to remember is that many of the rude, controlling posts on the net are made by young people lacking maturity, spoiled brats.

17

It was my understanding that in order to be “shown” a dog has to be “pedigree”. i.e. AKC papers stating their lineage and ensuring they are 100% labrador, pug, etc.
Is that not the case ?

While that’s fine (except for the whole thing genetic problems with certain breeds, but that is a whole different argument), I don’t see any reason why only people who insist on doing this should allowed to breed dogs.

18

Actually, my first thought on reading the title of the OP was something along the lines of two hillbillies scrumpin’ in the back yard…

(not a pretty picture)

-XT

19

There are too many dogs in the world. Your puppies add to the problem.

This is why you shouldn’t breed your dog.

Easy to understand?

20

I’ll disagree with your disagreement. :slight_smile:

I’m glad that people don’t have to breed according to your standards, or else a lot of us, including me, wouldn’t be here. :wink:

I’ll use Shelties as an example. I love the breed. I own a Sheltie who is fixed and have no intention of ever breeding in the future. That being said, what would be wrong if my dog wasn’t fixed and I wanted to hook him up with the neighbor’s female Sheltie?

Sure, neither one is show quality, but they are both good dogs, healthy and happy, and their kids would be the same. As long as I take care of them, find them good homes, and aren’t just cranking out Sheltie puppies to get as much money for as little cost as possible, what’s wrong with breeding the “less than ideal” ones?