Yes…but mammary tumors are relatively rare (less than 1 percent of all intact bitches will get them) and furthermore, they are very easy to identify and remove surgically.
The incontinence you mention is so common in spayed bitches it’s commonly referred to as “spay incontinence” and the drug you mentioned - Proin - is not new or “just approved”, it’s been around for a very long time.
Testicular and prostatic issues are similarly not really that common, and like mammary tumors, are easy to identify and remove in early stages.
Last year, I had to write a proposal for a graduate-level course. About half the references cited had to be from about 1 year, and the vast majority should be less than 3 years old. While I’m not going to require such a strict rubric to the cites provided…
This is 2011. Most of the references provided in the links given above, that directly mentioned spaying in their titles, where, at the most, 6 years old. Many, if not most, where in the 1980s-1990s, even 1970s. I’d be a bit wary at judging and appraising articles that are from when I was in elementary school, unless they were talking about a rare disease or condition, of which spaying/neutering dogs is not.
The 2009 study was in a subset of Rottweiler dogs, which I would be careful to apply the same to all other dogs.
This is Veterinary Partner’s page about mammary tumors in dogs. It is the companion site to another veterinary medicine based website, and most of the veterinary-related people in this board recommend it for client education. As per their information, this is a very common tumor in dogs, with 1 out of 4.
Not to mention the countless and countless of papers I’ve had to read and learn recently, that state that canine mammary tumors is one of the most, if not the most, common tumor in dogs.
There are other medical treatments available, but I was specifically talking about this drug, Incurin.
As to the association between early spaying and urinary incontinence, an interesting study came out of the Veterinary Journal, from the UK. It didn’t find an association between early spaying and urinary incontinence. From the abstract:
From here:
The association between acquired urinary sphincter mechanism incompetence in bitches and early spaying: A case-control study
Pages 42-47
B. de Bleser, D.C. Brodbelt, N.G. Gregory, T.A. Martinez
Yes, but the majority are not malignant; 90 percent, according to this link and others I’ve read. So when you crunch the numbers, a very tiny percentage are problematic, and it’s an easy fix.
Lipomas are extremely common too, but they are rarely malignant.
Absolutely. Rottweilers (my breed of choice and I have lost three to OS) are almost the poster-child dogs for osteo; I imagine that’s why they were chosen as a subject. But just because you can’t extrapolate to other breeds, you surely have to acknowledge that an almost 4-times risk after pediatric neuter is significant.
I read of a similar study of Greyhounds in the UK with similar findings, but couldn’t find it just now.
Before this study was published, I bought a Rottweiler puppy from a very knowledgable person. The link was already suspected: she encouraged me to wait until long bone growth was completed - about 14 months - before neutering.
Whether you want to accept that risk and future medical costs or not, that may be another debate, but worth noting. I’d also make a point that, while for the dog population at large most tumors end up benign, for the individual dog, it may be difficult to establish if her tumor will be truly malignant or not.
Also, spaying at 14 months, while not found as helpful in decreasing the risk as spaying before first heat, was also found to be statistically protective.
Absolutely - it is a risk-benefit decision. My point with the above cites was just to point out that there are risks to pediatric spay-neuter that many people are unaware of. It’s not de facto irresponsible to own an intact dog. And it’s OK to wait until the dog has become an adult before speutering. As the information and a lot of the cited studies I posted above note, there is some evidence that there’s an increased risk of certain cancers, ortho injuries and other chronic medical conditions associated with pediatric desexing of dogs.
The 14 month thing on the Rottweiler was because that’s generally when long bone growth is complete; pediatric neuter alters the composition of the bone. On that particular dog, I did sign a contract that I would neuter him by 24 months because he was not show quality however the breeder strongly suggested I wait until at least 14 months. This was several years before that study was published (2000) but many fanciers had already noticed a correlation.
chiroptera, but some of the studies are overdue for a review, even the studies of osteosarcoma on Rotties and age of spay. The main one of these studies is a relatively (by now) old epidemiological study. Osteosarcoma is one of the major bone tumors, lots of molecular studies have been done to establish what is happening and pathways activated. By now, though, you’d expect or want to see a study where they’ve shown a clear molecular link, or a pathway that is altered after spaying. It is not impossible to do or expect, as a link between early spaying and other diseases in another species has been demonstrated, and several papers have appeared explaining that.
Also, just to confuse things, many people (including me) sometimes have different ideas on what is “early spaying” or mean different things. Early spaying/neutering at 7 weeks (or whenever the pup/kitten hits the appropriate weight) may be different than spaying/neutering at a later, but still young, age (6-8 months, almost adult size, past vaccines, not even in heat yet). The shelter puppies and kittens tend to lean towards the earlier age just because they cannot risk releasing animals that may not get fix otherwise. The private practice seen dogs and cats may wait until the later ages, simply because they have a relationship with the veterinarian, and most vets do prefer to wait a little while (ie, not snip it as soon as it hits 2 pounds).
No disagreement here KarlGrenze…as I said earlier, I was just tossing out food for thought to combat the automatic, PC, “spay-neuter = good”, “intact pets = bad” mindset. That said, the original data/study on mammary tumors doesn’t appear anywhere online that I can find, although it’s trotted out as a mindless meme every time this topic comes up.
This is sort of a diversion from the OP though, sorry about that. I was sort of hoping someone would have had the spunk to argue any of my other points in post #79. maybe they’re unassailable. heh.
Having worked at a shelter and done a rotation in another, I’d say there are plenty of puppies. Not all of them are dumped, you’re right. Some of them are found with their mom and taken to animal control, or found on the streets and taken there. If they never had a home to begin with, nobody could have “dumped” them. At the shelters I worked, there was no shortage of puppies or kittens, and I doubt they all had a happy ending. The veterinarian tried to save as many as she could, but for every one she rescued, she knew she was condemning another one. Similarly, the ads I see in my current area for local shelters are all skewed towards kittens and young pups. Yes, there are some older animals, but not the majority.
There may also be a difference between shelters run by local humane society groups and animal control shelters, and in regions.
I do agree there is also a problem in retention. At one clinic I shadowed, there was a client who had dumped the pet (a silly young lab) at least once at the animal control center, before someone in his family raising a fit and making him take her back. Her main problem, as far as we could tell… was that she was a normal, growing, energetic lab. And he couldn’t cope with her messes and seemed unwilling to invest in some dog training courses.
I’ve never worked with a shelter, just with several different rescues (and was VP of one for about 3 years before I got weary of the political bullshit, so now I stay in touch but do stuff on my own.)
It is quite rare for rescues to get puppies. Sometimes pregnant mama dogs, but that’s not common. 99.99999% of calls from people wanting to reliquish a dog go like this (and I’ve taken hundreds of these calls):
I/my sister/child/brother-in-law has an [adult/young adult] dog s/he can’t keep because s/he’s moving/is allergic/can’t afford to feed and care for it/it pees in the house/has some other behavioural problem.
Most rescues LEAP at cute puppies. They adopt out quickly and bring in revenue. Puppies are gold. Especially if they are not pit bull puppies.
Two weeks ago I stole a sweet, sweet young mama pit bull who’d been left chained with no food, water or shelter, and with five baby puppies. Local animal control kills anything that remotely looks like pit bull or bully mix, regardless of age and temperament so that was not an option. Luckily I know people who know people, and after spending a couple of days at a “safe house” she was fostered with a very reputable group. Not an hour after I took her, the “owner” showed up and wanted to know what had happened to his $250, I mean his five puppies. Yay for good neighbors: that person called me to assure he would not tell on me and told the “owner” that Animal Control probably took them.
The puppies will go in minutes once they’re listed on PetFinder, even though they are pit bulls. they are adorable, healthy and malleable. Mama is extremely non-aggressive and cute, and they tell me they have a potential home for her already.
Retention is a huge problem - the majority of dogs dumped are inconvenient adolescents. Some of the rescues I work with focus on trying to help people keep their dogs - with food donations, behavioural help, etc - but most people, by the time they’re at the point they want to dump the dog, aren’t interested in remedies. It’s really sad. I turn down dogs all the time because there are no resources.
Nope, both belong to friends I talk to regularly, and have never had sex, much less gotten anyone pregnant. The 10-year-old peke actually belongs to an animal rights activist vegan - she might commit hari kari if she contributed to the dog overpopulation problem with Piggy’s balls. But it’s just never come up.
My former foster dogs do not roam, and it is not like there are loads of dogs in estrus running around here in Philadelphia/burbs. They’re not like humans, thank god - only fertile twice a year for a few days. Plus, most people who choose not to spay their bitches know when they are in heat and have no interest in random-bred pups. I have only ever seen a handful of roaming dogs in 10 years living here, and in 80% of those cases I went and caught the dog myself.
It’s easy to keep your dog from reproducing, it really is. I know people that manage it with a whole houseful (4+) of unaltered adult dogs.
Sure, it happens. But it’s not at all hard to prevent. Especially if a] your dog does not run loose outdoors and b] does not have frequent access to other unaltered dogs. Which is the norm in America these days.
I know quite a few people who show and have multiple intact dogs; have done for years and have been on boards populated by such folks for years too…haven’t ever heard of any of these folks having an “oops” litter. Mind you they have a lot of experience, pay attention to cycles, make use of crates for in-season bitches and have well-trained dogs, secure fences, etc. Possible it happens? Sure. Does it happen to a lot of them? I would say absolutely not.
If you can’t open your front door without risk of your dog running away from you, then u r doin it rong. Which is why anyone not sure of their ability to properly contain and manage an intact dog should definitely desex it.
maybe they’re unassailable. heh.
The veterinarian tried to save as many as she could, but for every one she rescued, she knew she was condemning another one. Similarly, the ads I see in my current area for local shelters are all skewed towards kittens and young pups. Yes, there are some older animals, but not the majority.