Dental assistants are the fucking worst too. I actually had one attempt to have me hold a mirror while she tried to demonstrate to me the proper way to brush my teeth (Apparently, I needed to pay more attention to my gum line.). She actually took a toothbrush to my teeth and expected me to sit there and watch her brush my teeth as she talked to me like a 5yo! :smack:
I’m not as restrained as the OP though., I plopped the mirror down and gently pushed her hand back and said: 'Yeah, I got it, thanks!"
Are you that fucking clueless that MOST people in wheelchair were once able-bodied themselves, in your exact same position, and just as clueless?
Again, you are seeing just the wheelchair or the defect.
And why the fuck does YOUR momentary discomfort outweigh the daily, constant, grind of being treated less than human? Less than adult?
Rule One: if you’d hold the door open for someone able-bodied, hold it open for the disabled person.
Rule Two: Any other door situation ask if the person would like help.
Rule Three: Whatever the person says, do that. Even if they seem to be struggling, let them do it on their own if that’s what they want. Maybe they’re trying to figure out how to it on their own. It doesn’t matter. Respect their answer.
Rule Four: It’s not all about you.
Replace “wheelchair” with racial descriptor of your choice. Replace “wheelchair” with “man” or “woman”. It’s possible to interact with someone of the opposite gender without that becoming the focus of every interaction. It’s possible to interact with a person of a different race without that becoming the focus of every interaction. It’s possible to talk to someone disabled without that becoming the focus of every conversation.
Holy hell that is ignorant!
I know a guy who can do goddamned flips to get in and out of his chair, and he’s not even the athlete Ambivalid is. No, being able to get in an out of a wheelchair by yourself is NOT some rare talent in the disability world. It’s a standard skill taught in rehab to everyone at all physically capable of it. The majority of wheelchair users are capable of that feat.
Now that you know, please avoid such stupid statements in the future.
This is a great point, and one that I’m sure has absolutely never occurred to Ambivalid. It’s like, black people need to realize that white people don’t like to talk about race, right? That’s never occurred to most black people either. And maybe people in wheelchairs just need to realize that most buildings are designed for able-bodied people, too. Ambivalid, did you ever think of that before?
Russian Heel, I’m going to stop being sarcastic for a minute and thank you. In another thread, we’ve been talking about privilege, and I’ve been trying to explain it to people, and not having much success. Your post–in which you’re lecturing folks in wheelchairs on what’s blatantly fucking obvious, about subjects that every single person in a wheelchair has thought about hundreds of times more than you have–are a damned near perfect example of one particular kind of privilege.
You and I both share the privilege of not having to spend a lot of time ruminating on the relationships between able-bodied people and people in wheelchairs. The difference, I hope, is that I try not to lecture folks in wheelchairs, and when I go off on ignorant screeds, I’m willing to be educated.
Or, rather, I hope that’s not a difference between us.
See rule two. But if they say they want to do it themselves I respect that because I am all for people being independent.
It never was.
Very true. That’s why I pay a little bit of attention to sports. “How 'bout them Cubs?” is a better topic of conversation than any of the ones you mention.
We are talking about a member of the general population here and I will be consciously patronizing when I say that, as a group, the gen pop is ignorant. We see it all the time and chronicle examples of the ignorance of specific groups in threads that might as well be stickies. See the post by Shakes to see why I don’t expect brilliance from the subset “dental hygienists” because in my experience some of them treat every adult as a surprisingly clever child. Maybe it comes from treating so many children.
Which could be interpreted as you sounding like a patronizing third grade teacher. Just sayin’ because it’s an example of a simple statement that could be heard wrong.
In their defense, their reading comprehension is catastrophically affected when reading personal stories of Ambivalid. It’s an effect I noticed long ago. Sadly, it seems to have gotten no better.
If anyone has a good reason to think you’re a jerk, it’s me. You may not remember, but my first or second post here (something innocuous about aspartame), you BLASTED me. I’ve been on a lot of boards and know there’s always one. Other people told you to lay off the newbie, and you did.
Since then, I know you go off, and I don’t poke the bear. I tried to dislike you, but sometimes you post crap like this:
You just REALLLLLY have a hard time fully comprehending text that you’ve already made your mind up on, don’t you? She DID NOT have a single clue about how she had offended me in the office. I was nothing but friendly, polite and courteous THROUGHOUT the appointment. She tried to be helpful AND I APPRECIATED IT AND THANKED HER FOR IT! ARE THESE WORDS INVISIBLE TO YOU?! It was WHY she believed I needed help that was the source of my feelings. Feelings, by the way, that were NOT expressed in ANY WAY until I posted them here. FUCK!
[QUOTE=Broomstick]
Now that you know, please avoid such stupid statements in the future.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=dropzone]
Which could be interpreted as you sounding like a patronizing third grade teacher.
[/QUOTE]
Maybe it’s just me, thinking third grade teachers* shouldn’t speak to their students in that manner, but regardless, how is that “patronizing”?
I know you didn’t say the third grade teacher speaking to their class, though I think it’s a safe assumption it is what you meant. “Stupid statements” may be an appropriate response if the third grader is say… 14 or 15 years old though
If you read my comment, I said the level of discomfort is not the same as for the person in the wheelchair. When it comes to “discomfort” Im referring to the eggshells we apparently have to walk around some people with disabilities because of the tight rope of being empathetic without being pitying towards the person.
Great. More rules for us all to remember.
For course it is. And to compare trying to compare the needs of a wheelchair user to having an interaction with a member of the opposite sex or another race is an absolutely ridiculous comparison.
Oh for gods sakes. So you AGREE Athen that for many wheelchair users, it takes hard work and effort to learn how to do this, so a congratulations to anyone who finds ways to conquer their disability IS in order. Excuse me for admiring their hard work and spirit.
Hey, Ambivalid? Just so you know you’re getting through to some people: I get it.
It was clear right from your OP that you weren’t getting pissy about the offer of help, whether it was needed or not. The problem kicked in when the assistant made it clear that she wasn’t assessing you as an individual; she was seeing you solely as Someone In A Wheelchair, which in her eyes overrode every aspect of you as an individual.
I don’t understand why this continues to be so difficult. People have said they’re uncomfortable. OK. Then there were many posts from different people saying, “Here’s how you do it.” Yet, apparently this is STILL incomprehensible to some.
If this were something difficult I could understand it, but it’s about one degree above the common courtesy most people would show a person not in a chair.
Maybe the bolded part is the problem. The level of common courtesy is extremely low to start.
I checked with a local expert, my wife, who is disabled and a former medical worker. Yes, she wearies of being treated “like I’m seven” and the worst offenders are medical people, but she defended them (to a slight extent) by saying they work with a lot of children, drunks (“some people need a snootful because they’re afraid of going to the dentist”), and people who are in far worse shape than Ambivalid. “Tell him the hygienist noticed how built he is and wanted to touch him. She’s a dirty old lady.” In fact, she repeated “dirty old lady” several times during the conversation. I’m not sure what that says about her. Okay, I am sure, but I’ve come to accept it.
I actually appreciate advice from wheelchair users how to handle these situations, but I wasn’t giving it to Broomstick because Broomstick was being as asshole.
As for “common courtesy” and this goes to KayT as well, I was raised to hold doors for people, say “please” and “thank you”. ’
And you know what? I’ve held doors for people in wheelchairs, walkers, tricycle walkers without asking them 20 questions, because I hold the door for EVERYBODY. (Thats said, many buildings have automatic doors nowadays anyway, and rightfully so, so its not always an issue).
Even tho this has veered very far off course from my OP, I must comment here too. As for doors being held open for me, just like I have no issues with people (such as the hygienist of the OP) offering assistance, I have absolutely not the slightest problem with the common courtesy of doors being held open extended to me as well.
What I do have problems with (and yes, there are more than one), are things like the sight of a wheelchair user approaching a door and a person jumping up from what they’re doing, usually nowhere near the wheelchair user or the door, and racing to get to that door before the wheelchair user, in order to open that door for them. Even when that person is told that what they are doing is not needed, necessary or really even wanted. They usually just laugh and say, “Oh, it’s no problem” and then stand there, in the middle of the doorway, holding the door open for me.
Or someone offering to get a door for a wheelchair user, that wheelchair user politely declines that offer, yet the door gets opened for them anyway. This is often followed by sayings like, “Oh, I know you didn’t need it, I just figured you’d appreciate it”. I don’t think many people really understand why a disabled person says “no” when offered some form of help. Many able-bodied people simply think the refusal is borne out of stubbornness or misplaced pride, or even out of a sense of not wanting to “trouble” the good Samaritan offering the help. This is the rationale that allows them to sidestep the refusals and go ahead and “help” anyway.
Many times, the refusals are because we disabled know very, very well what makes our lives more efficient, easier to navigate, and more difficult. If I decline an offer to open a door for me, it has nothing to do with my stubbornness or misplaced pride. It is because I’ve learned and perfected the art of moving thru doorways in a wheelchair and it would actually be a hindrance, not a help, to let you open this door for me.
It is not the obligation of the disabled community to sacrifice any quality of their lives in order to make random, ignorant “do gooders” feel like they’ve made a difference.
