When do boys become Men ?

[Sitnam]

I think fully growing up requires having a child of your own.

I won’t go so far as to say you have to have a child to become a man though.

[BrotherCadfael]

By almost any of these definitions, I know some mighty tall children.

[legalsnugs]

@DianaG

What you’re describing here is someone who doesn’t want to go to jail. That’s pretty self-serving. Simply not engaging in unethical or criminal behavior doesn’t make one self-sacrificing,

By definition, stealing, fraud, cheating, etc. make one **not **self-supporting. Certainly one can be the most important person in one’s own life without being a raging asshole, a headcase, or generally a menace to society. Why are you conflating self-interest with criminality?

Okay, honeybunny. If you need to make me “wrong” that badly, so be it. You don’t much like not getting your own way, do you? Is there anything else I can get for you, dear? :rolleyes:

[DianaG]

You’re taking this awfully personally, and I genuinely don’t mean it as such. I’m just baffled.

[Swallowed_My_Cellphone]

@The_Flying_Dutchman

When does a boy become a man ?

Back when I was building sets, I got in from work around 2am. I made myself a meal and was flipping through channels on TV, so it was a lot of really old movies in black and white and infomercials.

One channel had a young, in-his-hayday Mickey Rooney in some scene where his character is sitting with his family at the dinner table, and he asked some very Wally Cleaver type of advice (paraphrased): “Father, when is a man old enough to smoke cigarettes?”

The father character answered: “When he’s old enough that he doesn’t feel he needs to ask that question.”

[AskNott]

When a 13-year-old Jew, in his Bar Mitzvah, says “Today, I am a man,” he means he understands his religion. His dad won’t hand him a martini or the keys to the car. In some Christian churches, there’s a similar ritual called, among other things, becoming a member of the church. It’s a milestone in life, but it’s not becoming a man in most senses. It’s a rare 13-year-old who can get a serious job, move into his own place, and get married. He can’t legally make a contract.

The moment when most boys think they have become men is usually an early call. One good sign is making a decision based on doing what is right, when doing the wrong thing would give him an edge or make him money.

[legalsnugs]

@DianaG

You’re taking this awfully personally, and I genuinely don’t mean it as such. I’m just baffled.

This is my personal opinion. Why is it so important to you to make me wrong?

Let’s look at your contributions to this thread, shall we? I mean the one besides where you try to poke holes in mine:

@DianaG

A boy becomes a man when he takes financial responsibility for his own maintenance, and/or in addition to taking ethical responsibility for his own actions. Not coincidentally, this is also when a girl becomes a woman.

This is your opinion, and it’s a fine opinion. I don’t happen to agree with it (as my SIL example shows that your definition is clearly inadequate. My SIL has taken financial responsibility for his own maintenance and takes ethical responsibility for his own actions, but he is still not a man, in my opinion.) but who am I to make you wrong?

My opinion is that as long as you are the most important person in your life, that is, you live solely for yourself, you are not a man. You are a child. Let me repeat: This is my opinion. It does not have to be your opinion and you do not have to understand it.