Is there a magic age (18, 21, 30)? A special event (losing his virginity, Bar Mitzvah)? Is it a matter of multiple life events and an increase in responsibility? Is it a rite of passage sort of deal where some males grow older but never become “real men” and others are initiated at a relatively young age? How long is the period between “no longer a boy but not yet a man”?
I’m sure someone will start a spinoff thread for women, but for here we’re talking about men. So what do you think?
I’d say when he can and does support himself
[QUOTE=boytyperanma]
I’d say when he can and does support himself
[/QUOTE]
OK - does debt play into that definition? I.e. young man comes out of college with 150K of student debt and lands his first job, living in an apartment on his own. Is he a man now?
Having seen plenty of Bar Mitzvahs… that sure ain’t it. Even when I’d just had mine, I thought the idea that I was now an adult was goofy.
I don’t know if there’s a specific event. Dealing with the hardest parts of life, dealing with independence, and realizing the impact your actions can have on others all seem critical.
[QUOTE=Rigamarole]
OK - does debt play into that definition? I.e. young man comes out of college with 150K of student debt and lands his first job, living in an apartment on his own. Is he a man now?
[/QUOTE]
Works for me.
As long as he isn’t depending on his parents to cover any of his living expenses he is a man in my book.
[QUOTE=boytyperanma]
I’d say when he can and does support himself
[/QUOTE]
A lot of guys can do this. No guarantee of manliness when this alone is accomplished. IMHO, the criteria should be met like in a DSM IV fashion.
A. Are any of the following present:
(1) Contains Y chromosome?
If any of the above conditions are present, you’re Man.
Somewhere between when the skateboard disappears and a car is purchased.
[QUOTE=ParentalAdvisory]
A lot of guys can do this. No guarantee of manliness when this alone is accomplished. IMHO, the criteria should be met like in a DSM IV fashion.
A. Are any of the following present:
(1) Contains Y chromosome?
If any of the above conditions are present, you’re Man.
[/QUOTE]
You realize don’t you that as written that isn’t sufficient.
For one thing, newborn infant boys have Y chromosomes.
When he has walked down a sufficient number of roads?
Probably apocryphal but Nick Mason (PInk Floyd) tells of his mother asking him, when he was a boy, what ambitions he had for the future. He replied that he wanted to be a drummer when he grew up.
She said ‘You can’t do both’.
There has been speculation, for several decades, about the loss of “coming of age” rites and the effect on young men in the U.S. and some other industrialized nations. The rising popularity of “gangs” is said to be an evolution for young men seeking to be recognized as men.
I did a quick search and found this essay (scroll down to “coming of age”):
http://www2.hsp.org/exhibits/Balch%20exhibits/rites/reviving.html
According to the car insurance companies in my part of the world, it’s 30.
I know 18 year-olds with maturity far in excess of some 50 year-olds I’ve met, but generally, I think under about 20-25, you’re still a bit of a liability (younger for girls). Until you’re about 25 or so, you’re pretty much a frat boy at heart, and your life experience is nada. Generally, that is.
Or as I read recently, youth is when you’re allowed to stay up until midnight on New Year’s Eve. Maturity is when you are forced to.
I don’t think there can be an answer for this.
[QUOTE=DMark]
Somewhere between when the skateboard disappears and a car is purchased.
[/QUOTE]
I have a beard.
I am 53.
I have never bought a skateboard or a car.
:eek:
[QUOTE=glee]
I have a beard.
I am 53.
I have never bought a skateboard or a car.
:eek:
[/QUOTE]
And you dare call yourself a man!
[QUOTE=glee]
I have a beard.
I am 53.
I have never bought a skateboard or a car.
:eek:
[/QUOTE]
Yeah but I’ll bet you bought the Dandy/Beano before the Telegraph 
[QUOTE=Laughing Lagomorph]
You realize don’t you that as written that isn’t sufficient.
For one thing, newborn infant boys have Y chromosomes.
[/QUOTE]
Okay, I realize the flaw and understand that a female can be XY and also XX males exist and all that fun genetic stuff. You can take my DSM version as a joke. My point was that if you’re born male, you’re man after puberty. Financial situations and mental maturity isn’t going to matter. If you’re born male, you’re physically man after puberty. The only thing that is going to come out of this thread is what society considers a “real man”, and is likely to be stereotyped visions of what a “real man” is, with a lot of gray area. There is no one “real man”.
Buying a car, paying bills, and supporting yourself is no guarantee of man status.
There’s the macho man camp: Heavily involved in sports, eating Hot Wings as a sport, heavily involved in racing, loud engines and other motorsports, etc…
Tough guy camp: Arrogant type A types, fist fighting men, bullies… and to them any other type of guy is a pussy.
There’s the responsible man camp: Financially sound, buys a home, pays bills, owns a car, family first types, etc…
There’s the nice guy camp (not Nice Guy®): changes tires for little old ladies, the guy that can talk to everyone, lends a helping hand when you can, life of the party type, etc…
Heck, Nice Guy® camp too: overly self-conscious, low self-esteem, wants to overly please others…
Slackers, lazy dudes: seeks sugar mamas on purpose, doesn’t lend a helping hand with anything, a bit conceited maybe, doesn’t pay bills, unskillful, or skillful but very lazy, poor work ethic, etc…
Chances are, that men from each of these groups are not going to agree that men from each group are “real men” too. And of course, there will be overlap as well, but the point remains… there is no one “real man”, and no rite of passage moment for graduation to man status. To say that any one of these types of guys aren’t real men is a fallacy.
The OP asked us what we think, and that is what I think.
My definition of an adult is someone living on their own (no help from mumsy & dada) and working to support themself (not living off the guvmint). Anything else is being a child.
If you want to get all tribal-like you can concoct some cockamamie initiation ritual for him when he reaches whatever milestone you deem appropriate - his first shave, his first ejaculation, whatever.
Paint his face with some blood, take him out into the middle of the forest, light a few flaming torches, mumble some nonsense about your ancestors, and have him do a task that only men, not boys, are supposed to be able to do. Once he completes it, he’s a man!
*This was played to rather comic effect in an episode of Home Improvement.
A boy becomes a man when he is willing to accept responsibilty for his actions. Of course, this eliminates an uncountable number of us!
Interesting question. I like** Annie X-mas**'s definition. I would might modify it to “self-supporting to their extent that they are physically possible.” I know a disabled vet confined to a wheelchair. He gets money from the government, but that makes him no less of a man in my book.
It seems that there’s a real reluctance on the part of many people to embrace adulthood, which strikes me as a little pathetic. Being a man doesn’t mean you can’t have fun. It just means that you accept the responsibilites as well as the pleasures of life. I’m 28, and there’s no way I’d be romantically interested in someone who didn’t consider himself a grown-up.