Well, I don’t want to be Debbie Downer (or Dave Downer, I guess), but I have an excellent imagination, and would choose not to live if I became unable to care for myself.
I had an interesting discussion with an assisted-living salesman. At my MIL’s request I was setting up an appointment for she & we to visit the place.
He asked about her history and attitude. I told him. What came back was IMO a very professional and non-salemanlike analysis of the situation.
He said “We see this all the time. She’s waited too long. She’ll hate the very nice place we have. She’ll almost certainly be unable to adapt and will hate every minute here. So what’s coming for you is a gut check: You’ll be trying to find the sweet spot where you’re not consumed by the guilt you’ll give yourself for doing too little and the guilt she’ll give you for doing what she says is too much.”
My advice: Think long and hard about that can of worms. You’re trying real hard to open it early. Which means you get to eat it early.
As I said above about our situation, we’ve made our peace as much as we can with the idea that she values living alone and struggling daily far *more *than she values living longer in a group setting with help everywhere. So we’re going to stand aside and let her do that.
In the event we set an appointment with that salesman for 2 weeks hence at that place and separately at two others nearby. A week later Mom called in a lather to cancel all of them. “It’s unbearable to live that way; I can’t imangine what I was thinking last week. No way! Evar!!!”
Our nightmare scenario is she becomes just mentally or physically weak enough that we need to manage her life while she’s still with it enough to know, and disagree with, almost every move we make no matter what it is.
I believe that was covered by “And she would be- you get to choose where you live based on what’s important to you.” later on in my post.
I’m not suggesting that they should. I’m suggesting that the one retired person is not an idiot to refuse to move to accommodate the other eight people’s wishes. Especially since living close by is no guarantee of seeing the grandchildren more than once every six weeks or the end of complaints about not seeing them often enough.
And that was my original question - why is this an idiotic decision rather than one that isn’t what you prefer.
My inlaws are in their mid 70’s, still travel frequently and are relatively healthy but we’ve had this conversation with them several times already.
Not the you have to move closer so we don’t worry but an open conversation about how they want to handle things when they’re done traveling and might need a little more support.
We started them when my husbands grandmother was moving into long term care, and have continued to revisit the subject every time they or any of us kids have a situational change. We’re not the likely place they’d end up but we still talk to them on a regular basis so we know what’s going on in their heads and they in ours.
If you want a way to bring up the subject talk about a friend who is facing decisions and tell her you want to get her feedback on what she wants or what she’s thought of. Don’t impose, listen.
Am I reading this right? You’d subject them to the horrors of surviving a parental suicide before surrendering a shred of independence ? Because it’s less hardship for you? Or for them?
And how’s that gonna work anyway? Your independence is compromised following a debilitating stroke or heart attack, is someone gonna bring you a gun? You think they’ll just release you if you’re compromised? Already got the required ingredients set aside?
I’m confused on how this is gonna go down. And shocked you’d rather your kids lose you entirely than live requiring assistance. Do you view other persons requiring assistance in life as entirely worthless? Or just yourself?
It’s purely my personal view on life. Others are free to do what makes them happy. My kids will not be shocked, they know me and my (admittedly extreme) views on quality vs quantity of life.
When I was hospitalized with unstable angina/heart attack/coronary artery disease, I told my cardiologist I was on-board for angioplasty and a stent, but if the angiogram suggested a bypass was needed I would not undergo thoracotomy, electing palliative care only. He thought I was being foolish, but it turned out the stent went smoothly.
I keep the necessary drugs on hand, but hopefully I won’t need them. Ideally, I’ll be hit by a falling safe or something. 
What thought process would lead you to make such a decision?
I’ve had abdominal surgery (complicated cholecystectomy) for which there was considerable postoperative discomfort. From what I’ve heard, thoracotomy is more painful than laparotomy. I’d prefer to avoid pain.
So… the phrases ‘end game’, or ‘declining years’ in conversation, are too indelicate for your sensibilities.
But you’re cool with openly discussing your own suicide with your offspring?
Okay then!
Wait. I brought up ‘end game’ and ‘declining years’ as possible reasons posters did not see positive results when discussing these things with their elderly parents. I suggested a more subtle approach, since the approach they were using didn’t seem to get results.
I do not recall ever using the term “suicide” with my kids. I have discussed end-of-life issues with them, and I’ve stressed my own “quality over quantity” feelings.
ETA: my daughter is a nurse. End of life discussions are par for the course in her profession. I think she respects my viewpoint.
/hijack
I respect kayaker’s viewpoint, too, and don’t understand why people are intent on busting his chops over this.
I worry about this a lot. My dad can’t see, but it was nearly impossible to get him to quit driving. He gave it up and went to a bicycle for about three months. Then he got a golf cart. Which he drives across the highway. My mom is a rotten driver and being in the car with her is hell. They’re both stubborn as mules, though. Dad blames everyone for “moving his stuff” because it’s easier than admitting you’re a borderline hoarder who can’t see or remember where he put things. Instead of booking an appointment with the service that will drive them to doctor’s appointments 50-75 miles away, Mom drives. It’s a horribly bad idea. They live in a small town with no public transportation, no taxis, and even Grayhound won’t pick you up. They have the money to live somewhere else, but they won’t. We BARELY got Dad to move into town from the farm two years ago.
I worry, but I have pretty much given up. They did at least give us the power of attorney papers a few years ago, so if I have to make a decision, I’ve got the ability. Until then, I can only hope that the only people they hurt are themselves.
I have had a sneaking suspicion that my dad at least has some idea that when I retire, I’ll move to their town where the cost of housing is so much lower. Now that I have macular degeneration as well, I managed to squash that little dream. I currently live three blocks from one of the best retina specialist practices in the state whose main partner just donated 20 million to the new medical school for eye research. Yeah, leave that for a place in the sticks so there will be three of us who can’t drive. Makes a lot of sense.
First, there are lots of reasons aging parents might not want to move. Having a network of friends is incredibly valuable. It improves both your quality of life and your expected lifespan. And it can be hard to make new friends as you age. It can even be hard to adapt to a new route to the grocery store, as a poster upthread suggested.
Second, a major reason to not move is a desire not to impose on the kids. So if you’d like your mom to move, I would start by making sure she knows that you would be okay caring for her.
While I know that relatives (young and old) can be ornery and irrational, I’d start with the approach of assuming everyone is rational and can make choices on their own behalf. I’d ask your mom if she feels comfortable living on her own. I’d discuss whether she wants to eventually move in with you, or move near you, or move to an assisted living facility in her current area, or… I’d talk openly about how it gets harder to move the longer you wait. And about any health conditions she has. And about your capacity to help, or the capacity of your siblings, if relevant.
And then I’d expect her to make her own decision.
The last time I got together with my siblings without my mom, she said we should talk about whether it’s time to move her to a retirement home. We agreed it wasn’t. But she lives close to three of us.
Boy, no kidding. End of life care discussions are (or should be) routine whenever a person has health issues that make it relevant. After I had a life threatening condition diagnosed I was emailed a questionnaire for the POLST registry, I keep my POLST number posted on a fridge magnet in case paramedics need the info and my kids know what it’s for as well.
And my mom is 80 and lives alone with her dog in a small town up in the foothills in Northern California. She drove herself in to the doctor for a breast lump biopsy and was perfectly ready to drive herself home from the lumpectomy too, except the doctor refused to schedule the procedure until she had a ride home lined up–at which point she reluctantly called my sister and that was the first we heard of the situation. Seventy is not all that old–there’s a poster here on the board who’s older than that and runs a farm unassisted, including chasing pigs around. It’s pretty ageist to expect someone to move a fair distance away from their lives in order to accomodate a nonexistent need to be supported by family. If she wants to move closer, she will. Tell her she’s always welcome and you’re always going to be up to assist and leave her the hell alone unless she asks for help.
54 posts and only 2 of them mentioned the idea of you moving closer to her! really a telling statistic.
if you think you should be closer to your mother then do it! dont ask someone to change their lives to suit you. you can only control what you can do.
mc
JMHO, but I think it is OK to talk about it now. There so many reasons for an older person to want to live independently as long as possible. The one I hear from a lot of the older folks I know the most is that they don’t want to be a “burden” on their kids. Of course it’s not the first thing they say…They usually talk about their friends/commitments/church/doctor/familiarity, etc, but if you listen long enough, many of them will finally admit that they don’t want to have to rely on someone else or burden them. By the time they get to the point of needing even a little help, they have been independent for a long time and it’s hard for most to admit that they need help, let alone ask for it or accept it.
While you may not feel like it’s a burden, it seems that parents see it differently. By talking about it early, before she actually needs help, it may help plant that seed that you earnestly want to help her and aren’t doing it because you feel guilty or obligated to do so. (I am in no way trying to insinuate that you have these feelings, I am merely trying to think like some of the older folks I know).
This may be where my folks’ situation is different from most others; 20 years ago they retired in good health at 52 and moved from Michigan to North Carolina, while their kids (my bro and I) stayed in Michigan. Bro raises kids now in Indiana, I have no family of my own here in Utah and both parents are in worse health at 71. I’m sure I’ll have to have this uncomfortable conversation w/ Mom sooner than later and I don’t look forward to it.
My parents are both dead and my 80 year old MIL is active and living/travelling with her partner as a beach bum in NJ for summers and Gulf Coast FL in winters. Last year they hiked some on Machu Picchu. Coming to live near us? Visiting us rarely ever happens.
It seems to me that some reasonable middle grounds have been suggested.
“Mom, you are still fairly young and healthy but I worry about what might happen if as you do get older something suddenly happens. We’d love to have you living nearer to one of us well before then. Could you please consider it?”
Of course the answer may very well be “You’re sweet to worry but I have my friends and my life here. I’m okay and plan on staying that way for a long time. I’m thinking a skydiving accident at 96 myself.”
To which the reply of “Okay. At least please start thinking in advance what you would do if, as you do get older, and you are not going to get younger over the next 20 or so years Mom, you do start to need more help. Please?” is the best you can do.
Yeah not sure I’d respond well to “end game” when I hit another few decades myself. My plan is to keep playing the middle game full speed as long as I can. Transitioning into end game? When I have no choice but to, not before.
Still I’d be fine with the asking.
Because everyone has to do exactly what I want them to or else they’re wrong and they need to be told how wrong they are because they are wrong.
Mine are as well. In addition, my parents were each only children and I am the eldest of my siblings. When my mom died (my father predeceased her) I simultaneously became an orphan and the family patriarch in one fell swoop.