You have to understand, announcing that you’re willing to die for invisible beings up in the sky kinda tends to make some people a bit nervous. It’s one thing to say you believe in something, it’s quite another to say to that jesus is personally going to tell you to sacrifice your life in his cause. I wonder if Arthur Shelton felt the same way.
And it’s another thing entirely to come into a debate and say something like that as if it were fact. If you have objective evidence for this, great, we’d all like to hear it. But if you don’t, then announcing it as fact kinda makes you look like just another religious wackjob.
Is “judging” synonymous with “forming an opinion” to you? They have very distinct connotations to me. Is there a way someone can react to another’s words without “judging” them, in your mind?
In no way did Zambini57 accuse you of being a mass murderer. It’s not out of line to point out that perpetrators of murders have in the past claimed to be acting out God’s will, and to ask how to tell the difference.
I don’t believe Jesus will speak to me in person but he will let me know when something needs to be done if only through his teachings . He has never spoken to me before. But never say never either. I will say this though . You start off by saying it’s one thing say I believe in something and you conclude your post saying in the usual song and dance way of this forum that I look just like another religious wackjob. The same sort of religious wackjobs over in Irag ? Would you be willing to go out on a limb and say something of that nature ? I wouldn’t . I don’t judge them just the same as I don’t judge you . But what I do know is that the god they believe in is a god that I can’t understand. The point I am trying (desperately) to make is that they believe in thier god just as I believe in my God. My God doesn’t ask what thiers does only that I love others even those who hate so freely . Do you think it’s easy to listen to people mince words because they want to insult me but are afraid to break the rules ? At least in the pit you could insult me at will . I have had my ass handed to me there on several occasions and do you know why ? Because I let myself get caught up in the hateful things that were being said there. Lets just say we will all see when we die about God , won’t we ?
You say he will let you know “when” something needs to be done.
Why don’t you say he will let you know “if” something needs to be done?
My problem with you is that you seem to have it in your head that God is going to call on to perform some action that you think/hope will result in you losing your life for the sake of God/Jesus.
In other words, you think of yourself as some kind of Green Beret For Christ. I don’t like that, as it seems to be some way of exalting yourself, which I think the bible discourages.
For all you know, Jesus justs wants you to sit still and shut up. You have no way of knowing.
My question to you, which still stands, is 'Would you be disappointed?", and why?
So it will be up to you to interpret when it’s time to sacrifice your life? Oh goody, I feel so much better about it now.
This particular forum is a debate form, it feels like the standards are a bit higher in here than in the other forums. You can’t expect to say ‘I think X’ and have people just go ‘Oh, ok’ when you’re debating a point. If you can’t back up your statement, you’re going to get called on it.
Hmm, willing to die for their religion. Hate to say it, but based on what you’ve told us I can’t rule it out.
Arthur Shelton would disagree.
Do you think it’s easy to mince words when you’re confronted with someone spewing completely unverified opinion as fact because you can’t just come right out and say what you think about them?
But that isn’t all you’ve said. You’ve made quite a few claims about your beliefs as if they were fact. Several people in this thread have.
You’ve claimed that you are going to die sacrificing yourself for your religion. That could mean anything from refusing to recant your beliefs and dieing for it to getting capped by police while holding Richard Dawkins hostage. For being so confident in your statements, you were oddly lacking in details, so pretty much anything goes.
From my point of view, someone who believes an ancient myth has just told me quite calmly he’s confident he’ll die in the service of this myth. That’s pretty heavy, and not a little scary. It sounds quite a lot like things you hear about Islamic martyrs. So how am I supposed to react to it?
I don’t think this thread is going much of anywhere, so I will solve the problem for you. You are going back into the spirit world from which you came when you die, everyone does, you know. Doesn’t make any difference what you believe, or do for that matter. You will be able to sort it out once you get there.
I’ll indulge you as I can only hope you’re sincere. Last Saturday my wife and I were enroute to Church and we came to a stoplight and in the car next to me was a man that was passed out at the wheel in an upright position. I jumped out of my car , left it running (it was a bad part out town that is where I attend church) . I went over to his car , tried to get in could not , then started banging on the window. He came awake slowly and drove off . I was very happy to see he wasn’t dead . I went back to my car and after getting in my wife yelled at me saying what is wrong with you ? we will be late for church ! Do you think Jesus wanted me to sit still and shut up? Did my actions cost me my life ? Could have . make no mistake although I believe myself a warrior for Christ I don’t think of myself as a Green Beret . Do you know what they have to do ? Kill no questions asked. Something I cannot do. I explained before that I am an imposing man and not very attractive. The only reason I don’t say ugly is because I know Jesus wouldn’t call anyone ugly. I’ll bet if you laid eyes on me you would turn away . I have had it happen all of my life. If you think my Love of Jesus and my joy in doing good works is me exalting myself hopefully you can see that living the life I have has caused me to be able to look past myself to others and what they need for my fulfillment.So to answer you question I am no way disappointed that I am still alive .I have already done deeds and I’m still here.
Yes I know that . And I apologized to you and Jesus too. I know he accepts . I hope some day you will too. All of that taught me some things through the way I acted and the counsel of others. Not anything I’m proud of but it needed to happen. I needed to learn .
OK, I was looking at a different translation (CEV), it was handy at the moment of the post, but it’s not the one I like to use when going into such issues. Looking at the NASB and AMP I would agree on your translation, but not so sure about your interpretation. Thorns and thissels are a curse, this was the curse on the land that God proclaimed at the fall of man (Adam and Eve).
This depends on a contraversal issue, that being the concept of once saved = always saved vs. perseverance to the end. There is support to both sides. If it’s once saved = always saved then I agree with you, if it’s perseverance then I’d say that the are in the state of saved at this moment of time (If they should die that moment, or if the second coming happened at that moment)
I know that you would like me to say that if God/Satan ‘disappeared’ that the world would go on happily as it always has - perhaps for a while. One way I could see it is like we life on a ship. We have God maintaining it, providing for our needs, and providing us instructions and guiding it along the ocean, as well as Satan breaking it and just causing havoc with the population. Fortunately God is way more powerful. If these 2 vanished the ship would be unguided, the engine would eventually break, decks would collapse, fire would spread throuout the ship, our water and food supply would cease, eventually the ship would sink or hit something and run around. While these things were happening us, the passengers would panic, trample and kill others in our attempt to hoard the ever diminishing supplies
If God disappeared except for basic planet maintaince I have NO idea how long we would last, if pressed I would wag we would have 1-3 years till society ended as we know it, but it may be seconds or ages, Again a total WAG - I don’t know.
You don’t have to believe in curses to be cursed. I don’t know how much you looked into the issue of curses, but there are 2 sources of curses, Satan and God (and 1 source of blessings), though a case can be made that a satanic curse is a legal matter and it’s really Satan insisting on a curse because the curse is deserved. Either way, either directly or indirectly there are 2 sources. I don’t know why you say all have to believe for this to apply, curses can be applied by followers of God or Satan including Satan’s many forms of false ‘gods’.
Bold mine, there is nothing someone can do to make up for a sin. I can see not fully accepting Jesus, but on the verge of believing.
I would contend that the sin listed IS the unforgivable sin. There are only 3 ways that sins can be unforgivable for a person still living, besides Judas, that being the unforgivable sin, blaphaphy against the Holy Spirit, accepting the gifts of the Holy Spirit then fall away - I would contend that these are in fact the same sin. The last way is accepting the mark of the beast, which is sort of a end times sudden death play where we will be forced to chose one side or another.
Continuing Revenant Threshold, it appears like in Hebrews 6:1-3, which sets the stage for the warning, they are a infant chruch, repentance from dead works was accomplished, and they want to move on to the gifts of the Holy Spirit, I would say these people addressed in the letter are saved, and they are learning about the spirit world and exploring how they can further Christ’s kingdom.
You felt your life could have been in danger, but your wife only cared that you would be late for church? That’s harsh, man.
What do you think the guy in the car wanted? Isn’t that the important thing here?
If you believed Jesus was telling you to kill someone, would you question it?
I’m sorry to hear that, but I don’t understand what that has to do with anything.
I don’t want to speak for Zambini57, but I don’t think that’s the question he or she was asking. For my part, I would also like to know: if you lived a full life and lay in bed quietly dying at the age of 103, would you a) feel as though you hadn’t laid down your life in service of your god, and b) feel disappointed about that?
Okay, apparently my question was lost in the traffic, but again, supposing we do “go” someplace after we die (after all isn’t that what the OP is about?) for all eternity, what do you suppose happens? For eternity? What do you “do” for an infinite amount of time?
For those who have rejected God/ accepted Satan - perhaps non-existance to eternal separation from God and at the mercy of Satan and demonic forces - “you will be lost forever, and God will have thrown you away, no longer giving thought to your welfare” - Johnathan Edwards. I’d assume you scream and cry - all in vain.
For those who don’t know God or Satan, I don’t know - there is a indication that it will be less extreme then one who has rejected God/accepted Satan. That indication seems to indicate that non-existance is not a option for one rejecting God/accepting Satan.
For those who accept God through Jesus, they become adopted children of God. Now we get into speculation here. God has a child, Jesus, we will become co-children with Jesus - so we will use that as a model. We will live to do the will of the Father and rejoice in it. It is possible that we will all be given our own worlds to bring people to God, to teach them, rejoicing when even one come through you to the Father, and loving them so much that you will be willing to die for them - and might have to literally.
If it’s not “worldly” evidence, it’s not evidence at all.
Or there is no spirit.
Good for them, assuming they existed.
Yes, I’m a tooool of Satan, I am ! < head spins >
First, empires, including the Roman, managed that unification just fine without Christanity. Second, Christianity is about divisiveness and death, not unification; it is about seperating the world into the saved and unsaved, then converting or killing the unsaved. It didn’t spread to unify, it spread like a virus or the Borg, to convert minds into copies of itself, or kill those it couldn’t. It was about the destruction of cultures and free thought, not “unification”, save the “unified under one whip” variety of unification.
And the only moral questions the typical Christian pondered towards the conquered was how to more efficiently convert or destroy or exploit them.
With arrogance, condescension, and smarmyness, not love. You strike me as the sort of person who’s too wrapped up in his egomania and religion to love anyone. Nor do I want to be “loved” by some total stranger; it’s creepy and stalkerish.
Assuming a human mind ( and this applies to real world immortality as well ), we’d probably start forgetting our previous experiences eventually, and be able to do them all over again and enjoy it. Assuming a “perfected” or transformed mind, we could go on for quite a while, changing ourselves/being changed to find new experiences; in the end, we’d likely get bored. I suspect that such beings might either turn to something infinite, like pure mathematics, to keep them occupied, or alter themselves so that something that has become boring ceases to be boring once they’ve not done it for a century or two. That would keep them from going nuts with boredom without putting them in an infinite loop of doing their favorite thing endlessly because they never bore of it.
As far as religion was concerned, I seem to recall that the Roman Empire didn’t really care who their subjugated people worshipped, which provided a milieu in which fringe cults could easily arise and ultimately (in the case of what eventually became Christianity) flourish.
Are you saying that Christians (say, in the New World, or Africa) pondered the idea of allowing the natives to keep their cultural traditions intact? I guess that idea didn’t get very far in practice.