I’m prepared to cut gum a lot of slack, given the circumstances. Most of us read the background on the Pim Fortuyn controversy and murder. Essentially what many Dutchmen and -women feel they are up against is attempting to preserve a culture that is significantly more “free” in terms of acceptance of personal behavior and freedom of expression than much of America today is, against what they perceive as an assault by a fairly large number of Islamic conservatives who are entitled to Dutch citizenship. I’m not sure I agree in the whole with that perception, but it certainly makes a difference in how one views the Islamic faith and its expectations on its adherents.
I have no desire to let Dobson, Wildmon, Robertson, et al. define what Americans can do. And I can respect a Nederlander view that Abdul ibn-Fundie has no right to define what Dutchmen can do, either.
I’m not going into your accusations because, frankly, I have enough of the people on this board [see Liberal’s pitting] It’s a shame, really. I’ve always liked Americans, but the bastards seem to have gathered on the SDMB.
If you want your ignorance solved, just google for: Netherlands-muslim and see who the real bigots are.
Hey, who was that chick who claimed that she had a vision of Anaheim winning the Stanley Cup, and then had a total meltdown because no one believed her?
I thought we were not supposed to tempt the Troll Gods. Several of these people, in my understanding as a long-time low-count poster, were Names Not To Be Mentioned.
But that said, I think the funniest thing I’ve ever read on the boards ever was one of Serlin’s socks talking about working at a adult bookstore place. And then (IIRC) UncleBeer came in with a pitch-perfect mockery about working in a Christian bookstore. Absolutely classic.
In my 5+ years, I’ve only been involved in 2 meltdowns (JDT and peace). I’m a nonconfrontational sort but hell those guys were grating. I remember telling JDT that when I finally did graduate med school, I would never counsel mandatory circumcision. Then he laid into me about agreeing with him because I was deranged because I was circumcised.
Well, it woulda been nice if you actually responded to my and other posters questions in the other thread, so I wouldn’t have this “misperception” of you being a bigoted coward.
C’mon. If you’re going to flame out and throw a hissy fit, do it with a bit more energy and style. That’s what this whole threads about.
See! There you go. Slagging a whole country is a great start!!! Throw in a couple of conspiracies or outrageous accustionas, and you’re right on your way!!! Nice to see you getting into the swing of things.
Here’s what I got when I googled Netherlands-muslim:
and when I googled Netherlands muslim, This was the first result. It points out the increasing Muslim population and says:
Now, from Polycarps explanation (seeing as how I didn’t have one from you, you cute little ignorance fighter you!), I have a better understanding of why you direct such venom at all Muslims. Consider my ignorance fought. Now if I could only find a cite backing up your allegations in the other thread…
On the upside, thanks to your allegations and the googling you recommended, I have a much better idea who the bigoted idiot is.
Hamlet, you pathetic old-fashioned dumbo. By calling me a bigot, you compare me with the artists, writers and other intellectuals in my country. Thanks.
I’m not going to type the whole shebang again. Here’s my note book. Read the links yourself.
Hollandistan does have a problem.
I read the spineless and cowardly comments by Dutch artists (a disgrace to Van Gogh and any upright person) in the ‘dutchreport.blogspot’: unbelievable!
Lefty loonies, full of fear and PeeCee!
‘I have 2 children’ say’s one. So what? I have children too. Do I want them to live in fear of fucking Muzzies in the shadow of a Mosque from which a lunatic Imam blasts “Allahu Akhbar” 5 times a day (and night?)
These miserable bastards don’t deserve the Gouda cheese they eat! Let them learn how to walk upright, I swear!
By the sounds of it the Dutch are already ass up in the air to mekka 5 times a day! If these so called artists are already shocked into submission, what’s left?
Qur’an:
The Qur’an promises hell to non-Muslims 3:85, 4:56, 5:37, 5:72, 8:55, 9:28, 15:2, 21:98-100, 22:19-22, 22:56-57, 25:17-19, 25:55, 29:53-55, 31:13, 66:9, 68:10-13, 72:14- 15,
The Qur’an warns Muslims against mixing with non-Muslims 2:21, 3:28, 3:118, 5:51, 5:144, 9:7, 9:28, 58:23, 60:4.
The Qur’an calls on Muslims to wage war against non-Muslims 2:191, 2:193, 4:66, 4:84, 5:33, 8:12, 8:15-18, 8:39, 8:59-60, 8:65, 9:2-3, 9:5, 9:14, 9:29, 9:39, 9:73, 9:111, 9:123, 25:52, 37:22-23, 47:4-5, 48:29, 69:30-37.
The Qur’an promotes war against the non-Muslims by glorifying it 2:216, 9:41, 49:15, or by promising lust in paradise to the Shaheeds (martyrs) who die in such a war 3:142, 3:157-158, 9:20-21.
Toen Bassam Tibi afgelopen herfst door een krant werd gevraagd op te schrijven hoe Duitsland er binnen tien jaar uit zou zien, schetste hij een horrorscenario. Woedende, plunderende moslimjongeren die bloedige straatgevechten leveren met de politie. ,De moord op Theo van Gogh is een waarschuwing’’, zegt de Duitse islamkenner (60), die zichzelf een realist vindt. Grootschalige onlusten kunnen volgens Tibi binnen enkele jaren werkelijkheid zijn – in Berlijn, Frankfurt, Keulen en ook in Nederland.
,Ik pleit voor een dubbele strategie: afweer van de expansieve jihad-islam en een dialoog met de vreedzame islam. Door de falende integratie is de samenleving in landen als Duitsland, Engeland en Nederland uiteengevallen in Parallelgesellschaften, etnische enclaves waarin moslims zich afzonderen.
De scheiding tussen kerk en staat wordt door veel moslims niet begrepen
A public prosecutor told a high-security court in Amsterdam on Wednesday that terrorism is now a reality in the Netherlands. The murder of filmmaker Theo van Gogh, he said, was a catalyst to drive a wedge between different sections of Dutch society.
Prosecutor Frits van Straelen said letters left behind by the suspected killer Mohammed B. and electronic surveillance pointed to a link between him and 11 other Muslim men who are in custody on terrorist charges. Their cases are being kept separate from the Van Gogh murder trial.
But it was clear, he said, that a small number of Muslim men had decided to take the “fatal path” of terrorising society
and drive a wedge between different groups.
B., 26, with Dutch and Moroccan nationality, is charged with murdering Van Gogh, attempting to kill several police officers and bystanders “with a terrorist aim” on 2 November 2004 . He is also charged with possession of a gun and knives during the incident.
He is further charged with hindering the work of parliamentarian Ayaan Hirsi Ali, who went into hiding as a result of threats to her life made in a letter left pinned to Van Gogh’s body. Van Straelen said the murder was in part designed as a warning to Hirsi Ali, a vocal critic of aspects of Islam.
Hirsi Ali and Van Gogh worked together on the short film Submission, which suggested Islam tolerates and in some cases supports domestic violence against women.
He described how Van Gogh was cycling from his house to his production company when he was intercepted by his killer outside the municipal building on the Linnaeusstraat in the east of Amsterdam shortly before 9am on 2 November last year.
The attacker shot four times before Van Gogh fell or jumped off his bicycle. Van Gogh ran across the road with the killer in pursuit, again firing his weapon.
Van Straelen said van Gogh fell on the bicycle path and pleaded for mercy, asking the man to stop shooting.
Witnesses described how the man shot Van Gogh again from a distance of about half a metre. He then produced a large knife and cut Van Gogh’s throat before plunging the knife into his chest. He then took a smaller knife from a bag he was carrying and used it to pin a letter to Van Gogh’s body.
Van Straelen said witness described how the killer calmly reloaded his weapon before walking towards the public park Oosterpark. A short time later he fired on police and bystanders. He was shot in the leg and arrested.
One of the major issues to be clarified was whether B. acted alone or whether others helped in the murder.
Van Straelen said witnesses statements gave rise to the suspicion that others were involved. Some witnesses had come forward to say they saw other men in the vicinity of the Linnaeusstraat or near Van Gogh’s home prior to the killing.
One witness claimed to have seen B. talking to two other men in a market shortly before the murder.
Yeah, I will leave. Not because of you, though. [see Liberal’s bashing] You’re merely a lying insect [thanks, A. ]and you don’t even give me itches.
Thank You, gum. You have done much more to prove my point than I could ever had done. I think whatever slack Polycarp may be asking you get has magically disappeared.
It is sad and scary. But at least we know what kind of person gum is now.
Well, you posted it, and you didn’t use the QUOTE tags. It is generally accepted on this board when someone posts something that is not in a QUOTE tag (or at least in actual quotes), that the post is their own words. If any of the text in your post above is not your own, you need to post it again and this time properly attribute the quotes.
Well I, for another, am somewhat saddened by gum’s views. To be fair to her though, she does not monopolise her hatred on moslems. She shares it out to all the religions of the world. Islam seems to hold a special place in her heart though. In other respects she seems a nice person.
As to this thread, it is great! It allows me to enjoy the train wrecks of yesterday and regret that I was not there to experience them fist hand. I suppose in my limitted experience I would only raise the memory of BoyScout11 and DU weapons. A spectacle that I will never forget, though I hasten to add that I never believed that he was a troll in any way, shape or form.
I was linked here by LJ where someone asked that this be shared with the board:
The Free University in Holland (VU), is getting 1.5 million euro from the Ministry of Education to provide a course for Imams. According to the goverment such a course is necessary, because many of the Imams at present do not have much of a feeling for Dutch society.
Dean and Professor Dr. M.Brinkman, of the Theological Faculty at the VU, confimed on Tuesday that the University will be getting the course. The VU hopes to begin with this on September 1st and sees it as an extension of the existing course for chaplains such as those in hospitals.
Posted at February 3, 2005 01:31 PM
Comments
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The lambs are volunteering to pay the butcher`s salary…
How can a nation be so blind?!
Posted by: adela at February 3, 2005 02:18 PM
Film, with sound, every minute of the course, so it can be played back and analyzed. Have every student fingerprinted and taped as well. Follow their subsequent careers; see how well this exercise in futility will undo the damage being done to Dutch society by the Muslim exercise of fertility. Let another year, or five years pass. Who cares, as long as you are “integrating” Muslims into the West.
Yes, let those imams sink their teeth into that material, and learn about the Dutch language, and Dutch history, and Dutch understandings of this and that. Give them “a feel for Dutch society.” It will be for them a great gift, a gift to all those conducting Da’wa. It will allow them to hone their skills at taqiyya, to appeal to Dutch sensibilities and play on Dutch vulnerabilities, in a much more cunning way. Not one Tariq Ramadan, but tens of thousands, all carefully educated by the Infidel taxpayers, the better to fit in, and to rise high. What could be better?
Yes, sharpen the teeth of Islam on the sharpener the Dutch state provides.
As that kindly grandmother said to Little Red Riding Hood:
The better to eat you with, my dear.
Posted by: Hugh at February 3, 2005 02:36 PM
It is even worse… the CMO (Contact organ Muslims and Government), the main islamic group that communicates with Dutch government, says it will not recognize the imam course at the university of Amsterdam. The CMO says they should be the one to decide what and where people can get an imam course.
Posted by: Nordthiad at February 3, 2005 02:45 PM
I weep for the Vrije. Abraham Kuyper–its founder, a staunch defender of tradtional Reformed theology, and former PM of the Netherlands–must be spinning in his grave.
Posted by: Kepha1 at February 3, 2005 04:06 PM
“Subsidizing terrorists”, scroll down to Feb. 2nd.
Posted by: Silvester at February 3, 2005 04:53 PM
Hugh has it nailed.
What a great idea, Dutch immams will really get to know their enemy. Smart move.
There is no end to stupidity.
Posted by: epg at February 3, 2005 05:11 PM
Hollandistan does have a problem.
I read the spineless and cowardly comments by Dutch artists (a disgrace to Van Gogh and any upright person) in the ‘dutchreport.blogspot’: unbelievable!
Lefty loonies, full of fear and PeeCee!
‘I have 2 children’ say’s one. So what? I have children too. Do I want them to live in fear of fucking Muzzies in the shadow of a Mosque from which a lunatic Imam blasts “Allahu Akhbar” 5 times a day (and night?)
These miserable bastards don’t deserve the Gouda cheese they eat! Let them learn how to walk upright, I swear!
By the sounds of it the Dutch are already ass up in the air to mekka 5 times a day! If these so called artists are already shocked into submission, what’s left?
Some more news from Britain:
Muslim apostates cast out and at risk from faith and family
By Anthony Browne
While Christians who turn to Islam are feted, the 200,000 Muslims who turn away are faced with abuse, violence and even murder.
ROTTERDAM, Netherlands Prosecutors in the Netherlands say they are sure the arrests of a dozen Muslim foreigners on terrorism charges have prevented “one or more very serious attacks.”
There’s a picture of the murdered van Gogh - knife still in chest - which a radical muslim called Ertan put on his De Cyberdjihad.blogspot and wrote above it:
“Eigen schuld dikke bult” [means something like: “It was his own fault”]
and under it: “Laat dit een wijze les zijn voor de vijanden van de islam. Alle lof voor de broeder die dit zwijntje eens flink heeft gewassen” [“Let this be a lesson for all the enemies of the islam. All praise for the brother who killed this pig”]
hahahahaha You are right, Shodan. My apologies for that. I just couldn’t leave with you all thinking I’m a bigot.
Because - honest. I swear on my cats heads - I’m not.
[even though I’m sick at the moment, I still work at the women center and I’m proud to say my last client - a battered muslim woman - found a safe house and is quite happy. Yay.]
]and you don’t even give me itches.
You are right, Shodan. My apologies for that. I just couldn’t leave with you all thinking I’m a bigot.