Ok, Polerius. I have no problems with your latest post, with the caveat that I do not pretend to know where the line between tenable and untenable is. So if you’re looking for me to say, here is where the situation becomes symptomatic of an unstable mind, that’s not going to happen. Truth be told, I only started posting because I felt it a little unfair for people to be tossing around mentally ill and psychopathic. So if people promise to not do that anymore, or do it only in the hyperbolic sense so often found in the pit, I won’t intrude anymore on this thread.
This is about the “right” of people to consider some behavior sick. There have been lots of people in this thread claiming that “you can’t judge others”, “just because you don’t like it, doesn’t make it wrong”, etc.
I think we definitely can label some things as sick. It’s just that, as you mentioned, we each have a different threshold of what is sick.
By the way, just because I am not recommending that we should do anything about people like those mentioned in the OP, that doesn’t mean that we can’t feel disturbed/sad by what they do.
As I mentioned above, it’s like with people with OCD. We feel sad about the fact that they have to often go through very tedious and grueling rituals every day (rituals that fill a need in the people performing them, just as being a sub fills a need), but no one is proposing punishing them in any way. Nevertheless, we see that their behavior is not normal; there is something wrong upstairs.
I think we are mostly in agreement.
In this case, yes. If this slavery stuff is really going on 24/7, the children are an unwilling participant in their sexual games (in some cases, like with the tickling, quite literally). It is not right (and since they can’t give consent, not legal) that they should be subjected to that.
If I was the children’s biological father, I’d have them taken away from their mother on the grounds of child abuse.
No, I’m saying that it felt like you were posting about bondage in a somewhat exhibitionistic way, so that we were becoming part of the fetish. At least, that’s how it seemed to me. I could give a rat’s ass about what gets you off, provided it’s consenting, but I don’t want to be part of what gets you off.
Make sense?
(edit: Ah, not alone in that feeling. Okay, it’s not just me.)
She said herself she suffers from depression and anxiety. She’s mentally ill. I am not qualified to say whether her relationship with her husband is a manifestation of depression and anxiety - I will say that if my spouse were mentally ill and wanted me to treat them this outside the norm (and I was interested), we’d be in counseling to ensure it was ethical to do so.
Too bad she doesn’t have my reflexes-when I’m tickled, I KICK. Hard. I can’t help it. Once I kicked a friend in the face, and broke the hinge on her glasses. 
What bothers me is the lack of a “safe word”, or any “time out”, if you will. What if one of you gets bored, and wants, I guess you’d say “a day off”. What then?
What she said.
We’ve already covered this.
If a woman in an abusive relationship doesn’t end the relationship, then she is clearly consenting. If you notice that your friend has a black eye, but she doesn’t pack up and leave her husband, then she is getting something out of the relationship and you need make no effort to help her. Women like to be beaten, raped, and humiliated.
Right?
Regards,
Shodan
In defense of the OP in the D/s thread, I think some of you need to re-think your stance on what is or isn’t good for her children. I mean, you are entitled to your opinions, but what is going on here is not patently dangerous to her children.
I think practicing religion that includes indoctrinating children is unacceptable. Some things are very wrong to me. But what if she actually believes that it is better for women to be submissive to their men? Or that her sons will be happier if they dominate in a relationship? I know plenty of people who live this way and never gave it a label of D/s. The husband works and the wife stays at home and he controls the purse strings, or decides what they’ll have for dinner, or decides where they go on vacation, etc., etc. Her children don’t see the sexual aspect of this relationship. They see the male dominated household that people normally experienced 50 years ago. It’s basically an old-fashioned take on family roles.
This would not make me happy, I wouldn’t want my son to treat his woman this way, etc., but maybe she actually believes that strict order in the household is the best way for her family to flourish. Who are any of you to pass judgement on this family’s lifestyle? And where do you draw the line regarding your desire to control someone else’s choices? No same-sex parents? Forced birth control? Missionary position only? How do you figure* harm* is being done to these kids?
You are all free to run your households the way you see fit, and are free to raise your children as you see fit. Don’t you think you should afford her the same right to make those decisions for her own family? How is this choice different from any other family lifestyle that doesn’t suit you? We are all different, and kids are pretty resilient. They will make their own choices when they grow up. Just like the kid who grows up in a religious household, some will think it was great and some will think it was the most fucked up part of their lives. Life’s a crapshoot. It’s all a matter of opinion.
Because that’s what being a parent entails. Your decisions are made with the understanding that it is your responsibility to provide safety and stability for your children.
Now, I am not saying that freekalette and her spouse aren’t doing that. If these two threads have done anything for me, it’s to illustrate that there is a lot I don’t know about that world and that I can’t necessarily look at it through my lens. My point in responding to you, though, is that I think you are at the start of a slippery slope if you paint with the broad brush of “parents shouldn’t have to give up what makes them happy just because there are kids present.” People are going to jump in with all kinds of examples of things that might make a person happy but that are not good for children to live with.
I get that, too, in the sense that I understand what you’re saying. You’re WAY out in the woods on this one. There are sites on the Web that get me off, this ain’t one of them. Frankly, I’m vaguely insulted that you think I would find Dopers en masse fun to play with in a sexual way. I like some Dopers’ posts, but the impression I get of Dopers as sexual beings (as a group) is singularly repulsive. So, back at ya, brudda.
The reason I post about sex and bondage so much is that I find them interesting topics and enjoy discussing them. I know that some of you don’t enjoy discussing them, but I figure, why let the prudes rule? The fact that some of the prudes have decided to sexualize the very terms of the debate doesn’t change my opinion in the least.
This thread makes me feel all dirty and used, and it’s not because of the kink!
The OP started this thread because there just wasn’t enough condemnation of the lifestyle in the original, remember the original question anyone? Too much meh for her.
Then, having stirred up the muck, accused anyone disagreeing or actually answering the original question, with their own valid opinions, of being unenlightened, closed minded and judgmental.
And then, stormed off in an indignant huff because she apparently is unable to respond, being the only poster ‘forbidden’ to say what she thinks.
Geeze, agenda much? What a foolish waste of everyones time and energy just so this drama queen could storm off in an indignant huff and insist no one understands who isn’t in the lifestyle. Colour me unimpressed.
But suppose we were talking about her great-grandmother, who submitted to her own husband in just this way back in 1890? Was that couple mentally ill as well?
Martin Hyde, since you know so much about this topic, can you point to where in the diagnostic standards this kind of thing turns up as mental illness? Or do you believe in just shoving people into forced treatment for disorders which have no name, definition, or treatment plan?
What are you talking about?? I think you are confusing the OP in this thread with the OP in that thread.
I think that’s a bit extreme. Martin Hyde is not a mental health professional. I don’t expect him to know things out of the DSM.
I do expect him to be better able to describe just how and why exactly this woman is crazy in layman’s terms rather than just stating that she is crazy.
Admit it, Martin…you got off on that. You were typing it one-handed. You love abusing women so much you can’t even control yourself in public like this. Was your mother abused? Have you abused many women in your life? Do you also enjoy raping and beating women, or just abusing them verbally? How long have you had this problem? Have you considered seeking professional help for your degenerate sadism?
Color me unimpressed with your reading comprehension skills. Freekalette did not start this thread, nor has she (to the best of my memory) accused anyone of being unenlightened, closed minded or judgmental.
Read the quote above again. He said she should be forced into psychiatric care and that kind of assertion needs a lot more than a layman’s opinion to back up. Otherwise he’s just yapping nonsense.
I disagree. Any layman could see that Charles Manson or Jeffrey Dahmer needed to be locked away and given intensive care. However, any layman could also give you a detailed list of just what was wrong with those men. All Martin Hyde has done is point a finger and say ‘You are crazy’.
Note- Just to be clear I am not agreeing with Martin Hyde nor comparing Freakalette to Manson or Dahmer.