Where is the outrage over mom 24/7 sex slave

[Martin_Hyde]

@Diogenes the Cynic

As weird as it might seem after some of my posts, I’ve never been bothered by Evil Captor. I don’t know why but he just doesn’t seem that creepy to me. Maybe it’s because he’s upfront about it being a kink and doesn’t try to dress it up with a bunch of serious technical language, or maybe it’s because I never sense any real hostility to women in his posts (he’s into bondage but I never sense that he’s sadistic or misogynist). he doesn’t try to sell himself as a martyr to his sexuality and has some self-awareness that other people might think he’s weird. Maybe I’m self-contradictory but EC doesn’t bug me.

For the record, my problem with the scenario described in this thread is the living out of the fantasy in fron of the children who don’t know how to process it, not the fantasy itself (although people who can’t ever turn it off have some issues to work out).

I have to agree with this, I’ve mostly ignored the long posts in this thread by A Priori Tea as hilariously weak attempts to justify fostering the delusions of the mentally ill.

It’s one thing to be turned on by something “weird”–that’s normal. We’re talking about a holistic change in lifestyle with the focus of this thread, not a harmless bedroom peculiarity. Anyone willing to live such a way is mentally ill. And anyone who is willing to take advantage of such a person is either a monster or completely lacking in human conscience.

[astro]

[QUOTE=Rubystreak]
Couple of questions, asked out of ignorance, not antagonism:

Do you really think that’s true? There have been a number of threads here about how wrongly men are treated in modern society, how wrong it is to stereotype men as bumbling morons, etc. I’m not sure you’re right about people’s button issue being the sex. I think it’s more the idea that kids are being exposed to an extreme sexual kink that has grown to pervade freekalette’s entire life. That is a debatable point, obviously, but that’s how it seems to me.

It’s more than that. It’s the hitting, the humiliation, and the public and 24/7 nature of it that has caused people to question her mental stability. I don’t think that it’s the power dynamic. Everyone has a power dynamic but not everyone has the other qualities, which no one can argue fall outside of the realm of most people’s idea of “the norm.”

If it was a man being dominated the responses would not be nearly as visceral or as judgemental. The majority of the responses would be along the line of “It’s not my cup of tea, but hey, if that floats your boat go for it”. The OP aspect of a willingly submissive female - dominant male lifestyle is absolutely what is driving the level of approbation in the responses.

Maybe I just don’t get it-- that’s entirely possible-- but I think her husband is calling the tune. She does things she doesn’t want to do, suffers pain she doesn’t want to suffer, has sex she doesn’t want to have, wears things she finds humiliating in public… but she’s calling the tune? She’s getting what she wants, but so is he, and it sounds like he’s getting it a lot more often than she is. I thought the whole point is that HE is calling the tune and she likes it that way, that she gives up her own desires in specific situations in order to get what she wants in general, though he seems to be getting what he wants almost all the time. Please correct me if I’ve got it wrong.

If I willfully construct and propagate a situation in which I deliberately and purposefully choose to cede power to my SO in my day to day domestic interactions that is not coercion, that is a deliberative choice. A choice she is making and perpetuating. In practical terms she could choose to cease this lifestyle role play at any time, but does not.

I think a lot of this woofing at the OP is driven by the absolute fear people, and most especially bright, “in control” dopers, have in confronting the nature of our submissive and aggressive impulses. I think confronting that reality is making a lot of dopers piss themselves and they are tranferring that anxiety into anger at the OP.

[Inner_Stickler]

@Martin Hyde

I have to agree with this, I’ve mostly ignored the long posts in this thread by A Priori Tea as hilariously weak attempts to justify fostering the delusions of the mentally ill.

It’s one thing to be turned on by something “weird”–that’s normal. We’re talking about a holistic change in lifestyle with the focus of this thread, not a harmless bedroom peculiarity. Anyone willing to live such a way is mentally ill. And anyone who is willing to take advantage of such a person is either a monster or completely lacking in human conscience.

And that folks, is the Gospel According to Martin Hyde.

Forgive me if I don’t applaud.

[Justin_Bailey]

@astro

If it was a man being dominated the responses would not be nearly as visceral or as judgemental. The majority of the responses would be along the line of “It’s not my cup of tea, but hey, if that floats your boat go for it”. The OP aspect of a willingly submissive female - dominant male lifestyle is absolutely what is driving the level of approbation in the responses.

You’d like to think that wouldn’t you? Somehow I imagine the outrage would be pretty close to the same. It’s not about the male/female thing. It’s about how this kink has invaded everyone’s life that these people deal with (which includes her [who are not his] children).

Also, I’ve had a nagging thought since reading the original thread that this is something the husband has ordered the wife to do because he wants her to be humiliated on, in her own words, “the board she’s addicted too.”

[astro]

@Justin_Bailey

You’d like to think that wouldn’t you? Somehow I imagine the outrage would be pretty close to the same. It’s not about the male/female thing. It’s about how this kink has invaded everyone’s life that these people deal with (which includes her [who are not his] children).

Also, I’ve had a nagging thought since reading the original thread that this is something the husband has ordered the wife to do because he wants her to be humiliated on, in her own words, “the board she’s addicted too.”

By Jove, you’re right! There’s no way any right thinking human being would subject themselves to that lifestyle much less be posting about it. It must be that evil, manipulative man controlling her. Oh the depravity!

[Contrapuntal]

@Guestimate

I am afraid I don’t know how to do that, help?

Copy and paste the url (all that stuff at the top of the screen that begins with “http:”) into the body of your post, leaving a space on either end.

[Polerius]

I don’t think that just about any behavior is fine (in the sense that it does not indicate a problem about the people involved), even if the people involved are consenting adults.

If one adult finds it pleasurable to be shat upon by a roomful of other adults, or finds it pleasurable to have their bones literally broken by others, then that person has a screw loose/is sick/is mentally ill (or whatever term you want to use)

I don’t care if something is listed in the DSM-IV or not. Behavior like the one mentioned above is sick. If it is claimed that even the above behavior is not sick, then the word will have lost any meaning.

Now, regarding the case mentioned in the OP, from the other thread, I don’t think we have enough info, but from the few things I have read in these two threads it seems to me that people who need to be dominated, who need to be told what to do, who enjoy being humiliated have a screw loose.

They may be functioning adults in every other sense, but not all is well in their head.

Like people with OCD: They may be functioning adults in every other respects, but when they go home they may need to wash their hands exactly 7 times and count all their socks before they can have dinner. They have a screw loose.

I’m not suggesting that we take any particular course of action. If they are functioning adults, let them do whatever they want. But to suggest that they are perfectly normal is wrong.

If this 24/7 D/s thing spills over into “real life” (e.g. ordering and humiliation in front of co-workers, extended family, friends, etc), I would find it to be quite disturbing/sad/sick. On the other hand, if it doesn’t spill over into real life, then it isn’t really “24/7”, is it?

I think she said that she calls him “Sir” in public, and she was made to wear some dog collar at a restaurant, but I don’t think enough details were given about how much this spills over into the other domains in her life to be able to say whether their particular arrangement is disturbing/sad/sick.
Finally, the attitude “I’m fine with the behavior, but I don’t want the kids to be damaged” is a bit inconsistent. If the behavior is fine, then, even if the kid grows up to a dom or a sub, they are not “damaged”, since you already mentioned you are fine with the behavior (if they grow up to have dom behavior with non-sub people, then that obviously would be a problem)

[Polerius]

@Inner Stickler

And that folks, is the Gospel According to Martin Hyde.

Forgive me if I don’t applaud.

Is there any behavior among consenting adults which would lead you to label them mentally ill?

Does absolutely anything go, as long as we have consenting adults?

[Inner_Stickler]

You are, of course, free to hold your own opinion. For your edification, however: “I don’t care what you think; it’s sick.” isn’t a particularly compelling argument.

[astro]

@Polerius

I don’t think that just about any behavior is fine (in the sense that it does not indicate a problem about the people involved), even if the people involved are consenting adults.

If one adult finds it pleasurable to be shat upon by a roomful of other adults, or finds it pleasurable to have their bones literally broken by others, then that person has a screw loose/is sick/is mentally ill (or whatever term you want to use)

I don’t care if something is listed in the DSM-IV or not. Behavior like the one mentioned above is sick. If it is claimed that even the above behavior is not sick, then the word will have lost any meaning.

Now, regarding the case mentioned in the OP, from the other thread, I don’t think we have enough info, but from the few things I have read in these two threads it seems to me that people who need to be dominated, who need to be told what to do, who enjoy being humiliated have a screw loose.

They may be functioning adults in every other sense, but not all is well in their head.

Like people with OCD: They may be functioning adults in every other respects, but when they go home they may need to wash their hands exactly 7 times and count all their socks before they can have dinner. They have a screw loose.

I’m not suggesting that we take any particular course of action. If they are functioning adults, let them do whatever they want. But to suggest that they are perfectly normal is wrong.

If this 24/7 D/s thing spills over into “real life” (e.g. ordering and humiliation in front of co-workers, extended family, friends, etc), I would find it to be quite disturbing/sad/sick. On the other hand, if it doesn’t spill over into real life, then it isn’t really “24/7”, is it?

I think she said that she calls him “Sir” in public, and she was made to wear some dog collar at a restaurant, but I don’t think enough details were given about how much this spills over into the other domains in her life to be able to say whether their particular arrangement is disturbing/sad/sick.
Finally, the attitude “I’m fine with the behavior, but I don’t want the kids to be damaged” is a bit inconsistent. If the behavior is fine, then, even if the kid grows up to a dom or a sub, they are not “damaged”, since you already mentioned you are fine with the behavior (if they grow up to have dom behavior with non-sub people, then that obviously would be a problem)

Go back to QtM’s early point -

Qadgop the Mercotan

Except for the kinky sex, it sounds pretty much like the relationships my Calvinist ancestors had. And that many in my geographic area still do have. Woman submits to Man and takes his seed, and all that.

And people in this area said things like “Won’t someone think of the children” when couples broke out of this mold, too.

You are now at point of metaphorical frenzy where you are conflating a lifestyle choice having to do with the self chosen assignment of authority, and not all that different from what was considered the healthy norm a few generations ago, with having your bones broken, and being defecated upon.

Not to continue with the scat theme but people are pooping their pants over this woman’s lifestyle choices.

[Polerius]

@Inner Stickler

You are, of course, free to hold your own opinion. For your edification, however: “I don’t care what you think; it’s sick.” isn’t a particularly compelling argument.

What about that guy in Germany, who found someone through the Internet, who was willing to cut his penis off, fry it and feed it to him?

They were consenting adults.

If you are arguing with someone who claims it is normal, isn’t “I don’t care what you think; it’s sick” appropriate? Should you have to find well-documented studies that prove that wanting your penis to be cut off and fed to you is sick?

What would be a “compelling argument” in that case? That normal humans are against things that threaten their bodily integrity? Someone might respond “who are you to define what a normal human is”?

Once we say that anything goes, then no one is “not normal” or sick, even people who want to be fed their own penis.

By the way, I do think that normal humans are against things that threaten their bodily integrity, and in a similar vein, I think normal humans are against things that threaten their dignity. In a one-on-one temporary game (such as in the bedroom), small fake humiliations are one thing, but to allow it to spill over into your interactions with friends/co-workers/family, is not normal.

[Inner_Stickler]

@Polerius

Is there any behavior among consenting adults which would lead you to label them mentally ill?

Does absolutely anything go, as long as we have consenting adults?

I’m not qualified to label anyone as mentally ill. As for behaviors, well, anything? There are limits I have in terms of what I find acceptable for me. Is it right for me to impose those limits on others? I don’t believe so. Should I extend that same courtesy to others? I do believe so. Are there behaviors I find troublesome and might feel the need to intervene? Yes, for example, the leg-breaking others mentioned. That would be a worrisome kink to me. The things mentioned in these threads do not seem that extreme to me, however. I realize that you feel differently on this subject. It is my opinion that we who do not find such things enjoyable should defer at this moment to those that do. Should new evidence come to light that does show significant damage from such behaviors we can modify our response appropriately. Why borrow trouble?

On preview I see more posts have been made. In regards to the penis eating and what have you, now we’re just being silly.

[Polerius]

@astro

You are now at point of metaphorical frenzy where you are conflating a lifestyle choice having to do with the self chosen assignment of authority, and not all that different from what was considered the healthy norm a few generations ago, with having your bones broken, and being defecated upon.

**1) **I’m not conflating the two situations. I was just addressing some of the arguments in these two threads that “as long as it is consenting adults, anything is fine”.

I don’t think everything is fine, and I tried to come up with two examples when it wasn’t.

For the case related to the OP, I specifically mentioned that these seem to be functioning adults, so let them be. Overall, although I find the situation disturbing, I definitely don’t think it is as extreme as the two examples I gave.
**2) ** From what I’ve read about D/s relationships, it goes beyond “what was considered the healthy norm a few generations ago”, and there seems to be a strong component of deliberate humiliation and punishment, and not simply the ordering around that used to happen in older societies.

Also, even if being ordered around was considered “normal” a few generations ago, the fact that someone wants to re-enact that in the company of modern people who view it as wrong does seem strange.

For example, slavery was considered “normal” in the South in the US at some point. Does that mean that if someone wants to be treated like an actual black slave was back then in the present day, in front of friends and family, everything is hunky dory?

[Inner_Stickler]

@Polerius

By the way, I do think that normal humans are against things that threaten their bodily integrity, and in a similar vein, I think normal humans are against things that threaten their dignity. In a one-on-one temporary game (such as in the bedroom), small fake humiliations are one thing, but to allow it to spill over into your interactions with friends/co-workers/family, is not normal.

Mmm, I lied. I do have a response to this. We’re just drawing our lines in different places. What if I draw my line even further behind yours? What if I declare that people who dress up for the Renaissance Festival are sick and fucked-up in the head because they refuse to function in the correct time period? Or even worse, the SCA people who don’t restrict themselves to a festival. Dressing in medieval period clothing can be just as much a threat to one’s dignity as wearing a collar. Even more so perhaps, depending on the number of goths in the area.

[Malacandra]

Could I humbly request that those posters claiming to be able to diagnose mental illness via the internet please cite their credentials for doing so?

I mean, in another time and another place, a man who had a compulsion to put his penis in another man’s anus and not in a woman’s vagina would have been considered mentally ill, and the screeching about thinking of the children would have reached the skies. Try it here and now, and you’d better be wearing asbestos underwear.

[Polerius]

@Inner Stickler

Are there behaviors I find troublesome and might feel the need to intervene? Yes, for example, the leg-breaking others mentioned. That would be a worrisome kink to me. The things mentioned in these threads do not seem that extreme to me, however. I realize that you feel differently on this subject.

I don’t feel differently. About the case in the OP, I said “I’m not suggesting that we take any particular course of action. If they are functioning adults, let them do whatever they want.”

[Polerius]

@Malacandra

Could I humbly request that those posters claiming to be able to diagnose mental illness via the internet please cite their credentials for doing so?

Do you need special credentials to claim that someone who wants to be fed his own penis is mentally ill?

[Inner_Stickler]

@Polerius

I don’t feel differently. About the case in the OP, I said “I’m not suggesting that we take any particular course of action. If they are functioning adults, let them do whatever they want.”

Then what are we arguing about? A slippery slope? If we let them get away with this, the next thing you know they’ll be demanding Lean Cuisine Penis Sandwiches?

[Polerius]

@Inner Stickler

Mmm, I lied. I do have a response to this. We’re just drawing our lines in different places.

I agree. It is a matter of where the line is.

What I was objecting to was the claim that, essentially, there is no line. Everything is normal, nothing is sick.

I think there are two lines.

• The first line is where we declare “that is weird/nutty, but not worrisome enough to intervene”.
• The second line is where we declare “that is majorly fucked up and we should intervene to stop it”

As to where we draw the lines, as you mention, everyone has his/her own preference. As a society, we just need to come up with a consensus.

As of today, in the US, it seems that most sexual kinks (e.g. golden showers) fall above the first threshold and below the second threshold, while, I assume bone breaking and penis eating are above the second threshold.

[El_DeLuxo]

@Guestimate

Thank you for the link. The children make the situation unacceptable.

What, you think that two consenting adults should just voluntarily deprive themselves of sexual fulfillment, and perhaps the cery essence of themselves? Why should the presence of children override their desire to give each other the pleasure and joy in life they deserve? Or are you saying the opposite – that those who live and love in a way you find objectionable, shouldn’t be allowed to have offspring, because their desires make them unfit in your eyes? It sure sounds like you think that. What arrogant, authoritarian, tripe. How dare you raise the cry of "but the children! but the children!" to justify imposing your cocrcive moral sanctions on others?

Some things are just WRONG.

What’s WRONG for you is not nexessarily WRONG for somebody else. Your drive to compel independent adults to comply with your subjective and oppressive view of righteousness is much more WRONG than what those outside your demesne choose to do together. sexually and otherwise.