Where is the outrage over mom 24/7 sex slave

The BBQ Pit
241

The question asked, in this thread, was why not more condemnation of the other thread.

Pretty good way to ensure you hear the condemnation that was not manifest there. Stirring up the muck.

When we expressed why we weren’t bothering to express our outrage there, we were condemned as closed minded and judgmental for daring to have our opinions not in agreement with her own.

The storming off in an indignant huff was the ‘tell’. She never wanted anything other than an opportunity to feel superior and more evolved than everyone else. Drama queen.

Clearer now?

242

This is interesting coming from someone who once proudly and repeatedly declared that he had no sympathy at all for any kids killed in the process of perpetrating petty, non-violent crimes, because they deserved it.

243

Which, to be fair, would be par for the course…

244

I believe that I have very clearly explained the differences between freekalette’s relationship with her husband and abuse (at least from my view) - just as I have clearly explained the differences between my relationship with Robin and abuse.

I believe that I have also very clearly explained that her consent is given by much more than just not leaving him, although that is part of it. It is clear that she has the option to leave (unlike most abused women), just as she has the option to communicate if/when she becomes seriously unhappy.

I take offense that you imply that freekalette’s husband is abusing and raping her, and by extension that I am abusing and raping Robin. If you are unable to see the differences as they have been clearly explained, I think that you should probably read for comprehension next time, instead of ammunition. If you are just unwilling (which I think is more likely the case), then you are not worth my time and effort.

Nevertheless, let me give it one more shot - maybe a bulleted list will help.

[ul]
[li]Abusers do not care about the long-term happiness of their partners - we do.[/li][li]Rapists do not care about the emotional health of their sex partners - we do.[/li][li]Abusers do not take verbal and nonverbal communication of preferences into account before making important decisions - we do.[/li][li]Rapists do not negotiate boundaries and limits on sexual play for the benefit of all involved - we do.[/li][li]Abusers do not put their partners’ emotional needs on a level equal with their own - we do.[/li][/ul]
If it’s still not clear, I’m not sure that anything I can say will make it clear.

245

Freakalette did not start this Pit thread. Clear now?

246

It’s not Freakalette who is being the drama queen it’s the starter of this thread, who clearly had an agenda.

She wished for more condemnation of the lifestyle, y’know, so she could be all reactive and superior and then, storm off in a huff. Drama queen.

Clear? I am not referencing the other thread, only this one and the poster who started it, sorry for the confusion.

247

Shodan, does American football sicken you? Should adults be prohibited from watching it or playing it? Should children be prohibited from watching or playing it?

My point is that abuse per se can be and often is consented to – every contact sport is based on that premise.

A bit of consensual slap and tickle is nothing out of the ordinary in a healthy sexual relationship. As set out previously in this thread, cannibalism is not, and by its very nature, a person cannot have the capacity to consent to it. Full time submission falls somewhere in the middle, and as Quadgop has already pointed out, full time submission bears resemblance to certain religious traditions.

The only way to determine if the submissive truly consents to the abuse, or instead voices consent without actually having the capacity to consent, is to look at the specific facts. We have been presented with only a few facts in the matter at hand, and by your own admission, you “didn’t read much of the linked thread,” so you are premature in concluding that the professed consensual abuse in freekalette’s relationship is in fact non-consensual.

If you are intent on claiming that freekalette can not consent to abuse, I suggest that you look into when an activity itself may (or may not) tend to affect a person’s capacity to grant or withhold consent?

Does submitting on a full time basis over an extended period result in a person losing the ability to recognize and reject victimization, or result in a person losing the ability to act in a responsible manner with respect to himself/herself, and his/her family, including children?

The relationships between submission, abuse, victimization, consent, and the ability to think rationally, are well worth investigating. Depending on the conditions and the context, submission may be healthy and fulfilling, or it may lead to Grape Flavor Aid.

Rather than simply putting forth that there is no such thing as consensual abuse, which on its face is a truly simplistic and erroneous statement, why not delve deeper into the matter and investigate what the benefits and pitfalls of submission are?

248

I think it is exaggerating to call the relationship in question “slavery.” It is even exaggerating to call anything he does to her “punishment.” It’s sort of pretend slavery, and sort of pretend punishment.

The only thing that bothers me about any of it is the inclusion of the kids. Kids are not stupid.

-FrL-

249

I agree with everything Frylock just said.

I don’t think the kids will grow up to be horribly scarred. But I do think they know something is going on.

250

I’m sensing a giant yank.

You sanctimonious christian bastards are gonna get your comeuppance.

In my short read of things the whole lifestyle seems fake and dishonest but the other thread seems particularly contrived. And what timing, the prudes are all in church this morning for only the first time this year.

I only question if A Prior Tea was in on it before or happened by. She has the only coherent take on the Master/whatever lifestyle. Had she not jumped in the whole thing would have fallen apart right away.

Well played.

251

Eh, I don’t consider myself a judgemental type, but the “lifestyle” professed by the OP that inspired this one doesn’t sound healthy or sane to me. Now am I going to get out a pitchfork and torch? Nah, too much work. But I consider my opinion just as valid as anyone else’s. I don’t get the “how dare you tell someone who says they are happy that they are doing something wrong!” tone going in this thread. Do we not do that everyday here? So how about we come off that shit.

In this situation, we have a woman and man who are teaching their kids, by example, that a normal relationship consists of subjugation, coercion, and abusive-like behavior. No, none of us live in their home and are able to see what the kids are taking in. But ass whuppings? Threats of ass whuppings? Wearing dog collars and being humiliated for being “mouthy” after being commanded to do something the man is perfectly capable of doing himself? The whole “may I, sir” dynamic? If I saw two people engaging in this fetishy crapola around me, I’d have no problem thinking they have major issues. With or without kids. Throw kids into the mix, and it’s hard for me to not think they are being both crazy, immature, and selfish. Guess that makes me a prude or whatever, but I don’t care.

The thing that strikes me as unhealthy about the 24/7 slave thing is that the adults are constantly in “play” mode. Both of them are acting out a designated role, with no breaks, all the time. When do they really get to be themselves? And what are the parents teaching the kids about conflict resolution? A boy who grows up thinking the man calls the shots and metes out the punishments when his girl steps out of line may be in for a rude awakening when he finds that most women don’t go for that.

252

Face, you know I love you, but your post comes from ignorance. Reading it, it’s very clear you’re basing your opinion mostly on what’s in your head right now, without enough reference to outside information. In 24/7 D/s relationships, the adults are not always in play mode. There is a vast amount of negotiation, defining of mental spaces, contracting, and equality involved in setting up the kinds of situations that community approves of, and if there’s not, then the community condemns the behavior as not safe, sane, or consensual. There is in fact often more communication and trust in these kinds of setups than in vanilla marriages where no one has made any effort to outwardly make the relationship healthy.

It’s very easy to say that someone who enjoys stuff you don’t has “issues”, but the fact is that many otherwise normal, healthy people are into this, just as they might be into any number of things you’re not. I actually didn’t read the other thread, so it’s possible in that case they’re doing all the stuff you mention in front of the kids, but my understanding from this one was that all those things are done in private.

253

Amen and I’ll sign that. You got that right.
But even as I am nauseated at the thought of this dynamic 24/7–it is even worse to me that there (apparently) isn’t a sexual undernote to this all the time(which, given due consideration, makes perfect sense: no one can be “on” 24/7, not matter how desired that may be)-- I appreciate the exposure to it. It’s one reason I stick around. This issue is not one I would have spontaneously thought of and mulled over, so I’m glad of the opportunity, even though I pity the kids and feel the OP needs some counseling. I say counseling–not to talk her out of her submissiveness, but to help her in terms of reality. Take away the “kink” and you have a massively disparate relationship. I also cannot but have sympathy for her husband–how nice for her to be able to not make any adult decisions. (sarcasm). If they face financial ruin, a household disaster of some sort, if he becomes impotent, a child becomes ill–it’s all on him. What a bitch. (is that judgmental enough? I hope so). I am appalled at the selfishness.

As to the statement made by astro (I think) re it’s the whole woman being subjugated by man thing–I feel that is incorrect. I would feel this was just as morally corrupt and wrong if it were a woman doing this to a man, in front of their kids, 24/7 etc. For me it is more the kids having to watch this dynamic (cute stories about other children being supposedly just fine notwithstanding) and the impact it has on them. If this were a couple without kids, I’d still be squicked out, but more tolerant, even “meh” about the whole thing. I have no outrage re Robin and his/her partner. I have :confused: instead, but to each his own.
I also don’t believe this kumbaya bullshit that D/s couples are so together emotionally and psychologically that they discuss sex and all it’s oddities freely with their kids like Masters and Johnson. People are people–no matter their kinks–and if it’s that hard to “survive” in the vanilla world, I’ll bet there’s a lot of shame and self-loathing going on in this world. Saying that they’re so together and hip is just another shot at the supposed uptight mainstream who supposedly don’t speak to their kids. I am sure that some D/s folk do indeed talk responsibly about sex to their kids, but I’m also sure that just as many don’t. Just like vanilla people. How ironic.

Ensign–the OP was quite adamant that this occurs 24/7, so this is NOT private; it is done in full view of the kids-in fact, the kids are a part of her punishment.

254

Excuse me? WTF does that have to do with anything? Sanctimonious bastards come in all flavors you know, like atheist apple and woo-woo watermelon.

As for the issue at hand, I find it unhealthy because I think subbing as an ironclad rule precludes human potentiality. I think it makes the person less likely to grow and develop. Part of life is having free will, making choices and growing in confidence and self-love. While playing with subbing may be fine and dandy, I don’t think a permanent arrangement can be. But hey, I’m expressing disagreement so clearly I’m a close-minded vanilla kink-hating asshole fucknugget.

People judging —> Hurray I’m cool!
People being judged --> I was judged! Hurray I’m cool!
Peopled judging the judgers ----> Stop judging! Hurray I’m cool!

There’s ways of disagreeing with behavior and leaving room for personal opinion without condemning a person or even an entire family.

255

Autolycus,

relax, I’m all that also. Sanctimonious christian bastard, close-minded vanilla kink-hating asshole fucknugget.

I must confess I’m not sure about the woo-woo watermelon thing and I’m afraid to look.

256

You’re talking about these relationships in the general, and that’s fine. But I’m going off of what the OP said herself. First off, she’s not a part of any community; she and her husband are doing their own thing, according to her. And secondly, yeah the adults may be on the same page, but my main beef has little to do with this. Can we agree that there are some legitimate concerns here about the kids? In a way, it would be less of a big deal if this was all the kids have ever known, but it’s not. This lifestyle, not to mention this relationship, is new to them. I’m putting myself in their shoes. Would I want to see my mother treated at best, like a child and at worse, like an animal by this man who I may or may not feel all that close to because of other life circumstances? This relationship may be what’s best for the adults (I don’t know), but what about the children? Can anyone argue that a relationship defined by this kind of power dynamic is what is best for the kids?

You should read the other thread. Even if most of the stuff they do is in private, enough of it is not to make me feel the way I do. Their actions might be toned down, but the basic dynamic is there. The “do what I say, woman, or else” shit is what I’m talking about. I think there’s some serious self-delusion going on if freekalette thinks the kids are untouched by this. I also think some of yall are going overboard defending her because you think all kinks are being judged in this thread. I got my own kinks, so trust it’s not that.

257

I’m the farthest thing from a “sanctimonious Christian,” but the arrangement sounds pretty twisted to me.

This board is a schizophrenic place: encyclopedic archive of Recreational Outrage on the one hand, and safe haven for proponents and apologists of the “anything goes” philosophy on the other.

I wonder sometimes how far we’re willing to go. If there were a post by, say, a black woman describing her 24/7 consensual relationship with her white husband—in which she were required to always refer to him as “massa,” to blow him while he wore Klan robes, to wear an iron collar and chains and submit to “playful” whippings when they were out together in public, would people still be lining up to say “you GO, girl!” Is there really no point at which one is allowed to suspect an underlying pathology to the fun-'n-games? To feel concern, if not distaste, when told that someone feels pleasure in being utterly debased and humiliated (or subjecting a purported loved one to humiliation)? And not just in a fantasy scenario, behind closed doors, but all the time?

They can do what they want. I only pray that they and their cheerleaders extend a bit of that surplus open-mindedness to me, when I profess the right to think that such a relationship has something dark and foul coursing beneath its manicured lawn.

And fuck any topic that finds me (roughly) siding with Diogenes, Shodan, and Martin’s bloody Hyde, for chrissake.

258

Actually, a fair few of the sanctimonious bastards in here are the die-hard God-deniers, FYI. :stuck_out_tongue:

259

You’re right, I should read it. Frankly, though, just saying they’re not part of any community immediately sets off my warning bells. It’s in part because there’s so much mutual mentoring and monitoring that goes on within the community that convinces me this stuff can be perfectly safe and healthy. Outside of that context it’s a whole other situation. Since this thread had devolved into a general condemnation of BDSM I jumped in on that context, but clearly to discuss the specifics here I’ll have to go read it.

A note to those fixated on “debasement”: one feature of many D/s relationships is the idea that the submissive is deeply cherished and valued for his or her service, and that the relationship should always serve as a way to help the sub achieve the sub’s personal goals in life.

260

Funny, you seem to have a lot in common with them to me. You all tend to spout off authoritatively on subjects you clearly know very little about, for one, and engage in lots of logical fallacies (such as the absurd slippery slope you just proposed) while seeming to think yourselves fantastically clever.