[QUOTE=Robin Goodfellow]
And Priori Tea tickles me when I don’t want to be tickled. Where’s my righteous outrage?! Save me, Diogenes the Cynic! You’re my only hope!
[/quote]
You’re equating tickling with rape?
How the fuck is non-consensual sex really consensual? What kind of shithead says “tough” if his partner isn’t in the mood? How is that remotely “respectful?” If the partner doesn’t want sex, then the “respectful” thing to do is not rape them.
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
I finished the script a long time ago numbnuts. I posted the link and everything. I proved my point quite well. Keep up.
[/quote]
What am I, Straight Dope paparazzi? I’d rather feed your script to the neighborhood cat than read it. Thanks, though. I’m sure it’s a laugh riot (if not quite in the way you intended).
You also never answered my question. Is it not true that your children are just as unable to consent to their mothers’ intent to raise them as Christians? I asked mine first, so answer it or fuck off. Or, preferably, both.
[QUOTE=fessie]
Except that games end.
[/QUOTE]
You’ve never been to a rugby party, I take it.
[QUOTE=Guestimate]
Well I went to work and WOW this has become a fascinating and informative thread. Many people have eloquently expressed my reservations about the 24/7 scenario WITH KIDS BEING RAISED IN IT much better than I did originally.
Regarding the concerns that some have that since I think this is “wrong” when children are being raised in this particular situation, that this automatically follows that other alternate situations viewed as “wrong” by me or others and would/could/should be judged in the same way—my reply is this= this situation is not between two adults, it is between a master and slave. The children will not learn/see how two adults/parents (or even one parent) functions. There is no “mother” or “father”, there is a master and slave.
This scenario is very specific and I am only judging this scenario.
To raise a child in this situation is AT LEAST giving them so many additional challenges in life that it is cruel.
Freekalette, I AM saying that because you have three children and are choosing to bring them up, you should not live the way you want exactly the way you want because it is too much for young minds to take. When they are grown, THEN I can see them having to deal with your choices…this is too tough for children.
[/QUOTE]
This is not being addressed. I am listening, well, reading…
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
He also has sex with her whether she wants it or not. That sounds a lot like rape to me.
[/QUOTE]
Except what sounds like rape to you is in fact not rape so long as there is consent. No one wants to get tackled in a football game, but because there is consent, there is no assault. The same applies to adult rape/sexual assault – if there is consent, there is no rape/sexual assault.
[QUOTE=Robin Goodfellow]
Hey, I have an awesome idea. How about you leave my gender identity the fuck out of this?
[/QUOTE]
Maybe I’m mistaken, but it doesn’t seem to me that the poster you’re responding to was refering to any kind of gender identity, but simply was opposing man(adult) to boy (children).
I had no clue you had any gender identity issue, and the post was making perfect sense to me.
[QUOTE=Hostile Dialect]
What am I, Straight Dope paparazzi? I’d rather feed your script to the neighborhood cat than read it.
[/quote]
Then why did you ask about it?
How would you know if you aren’t willing to read it?
My kids can stop being raised as Christians any time they want to. We always tell them they are allowed to believe whatever they want. I don’t see how this is analogous, though.
[QUOTE=Muffin]
Except what sounds like rape to you is in fact not rape so long as there is consent. No one wants to get tackled in a football game, but because there is consent, there is no assault. The same applies to adult rape/sexual assault – if there is consent, there is no rape/sexual assault.
[/QUOTE]
But she said he has sex with her whether she consents or not. At least, that was what she strongly implied.
[QUOTE=Guestimate]
This is not being addressed. I am listening, well, reading…
[/QUOTE]
Is there a question in there somewhere? If so, then I’m not seeing it. How do you figure my kids don’t see a “mother and father”? What defines a parent? In my mind, it means two people who love and care for their children and meet their needs. We give the kids food, shelter, love, discipline (when they need it, which isn’t often), compassion, mercy, clothing, toys, time, understanding… What do they need to see me as a mom that I’m not giving them? Or Joe as a dad?
[QUOTE=freekalette]
What do they need to see me as a mom that I’m not giving them? Or Joe as a dad?
[/QUOTE]
That’s an easy one. Mutual fucking respect. Acting out subservience in front of your kids is fucked up and you need counselling.
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
He also has sex with her whether she wants it or not. That sounds a lot like rape to me. From the MPSIMS thread:
[/QUOTE]
She consents to have sex even when she doesn’t want to have sex. That’s not rape.
Plus, didn’t you say in a recent post that the only issue you had was the children, and not the sexual part of their relationship? Now, you’re stating she’s the victim of a rapist.
You might use nicer words than ** Martin Hyde ** and ** Shodan **, but basically, you’re holding the same position : these people are ill, he’s an abuser, and she’s unable to give a meaningful consent.
Diogenes, I’ve given examples of MUTUAL FUCKING RESPECT repeatedly. Just go to hell and leave me to my sick and twisted depravity already.
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
You’re equating tickling with rape?
[/QUOTE]
I’m equating consent with consent. Both are violations of personal space and, sometimes, one’s feeling of safety. And the anti-tickling Crusade of–what, six pages ago?–certainly thought it was tantamount to that or worse. And my relationships have demanded much more than that from me, but it didn’t fit some red herring of yours, so I guess it’s not really applicable.
In a way you will never understand and have no desire to sympathize with.
What kind of self-respecting Doper puts words in other people’s mouths? I believe the phrase was, ‘If I’m not in the mood […] tough.’ The shittyheady words are you assuming that this really short paraphrase (cuz guess what, you don’t have full rights to someone else’s private time) are his exact words and entire self-identy, when I’m pretty sure you’ve never witnessed the lead-up to or motivations behind this rape you’re so quick to label.
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
That’s an easy one. Mutual fucking respect. Acting out subservience in front of your kids is fucked up and you need counselling.
[/QUOTE]
I find it truly bizarre that you’ve chosen this, of all moments, to finally pass judgment on a lifestyle choice, Dio.
The lifestyle in question is by its very nature difficult to accurately describe using words. You really have absolutely no idea what they do in front of their kids, because you aren’t watching it yourself (presumably).
Still, they’re rational adults, and freekalette is comfortable enough with what she does in front of her kids to talk openly about it in a public forum.
So how about you give her the benefit of the doubt, rather than steaming over the images in your head- that are doubtless born more of your own experiences than what you’ve learned in her thread?
[QUOTE=clairobscur]
She consents to have sex even when she doesn’t want to have sex. That’s not rape.
[/quote]
She said, “If I’m not in the mood for a little lovin’ tonight, tough.” “I’m not in the mood,” does not sound like consent. “Tough” does not sounmd like consent is required.
That was before I read in the other thread that it’s just “tough” if she doesn’t want to have sex. It’s a tangential issue, though. If she doesn’t want people to think she’s being raped, she shouldn’t post in such a highly provocative manner. How am I supposed to be able to tell if “not in the mood” really means what it says or not? I took it at face value.
I think the first two are probably true (she’s admitted to suicidal depression and he shows a lack of respect for the feelings of her kids). The third is unclear.
The main problem for me is still the inability of either partner to keep it away from the children. If he’s “ordering her around” and making her wear spiked dog collars then they aren’t keeping it away from the children and they are giving the impression that men have the right to dominate women (and that the woman’s feelings don’t matter).
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright]
I find it truly bizarre that you’ve chosen this, of all moments, to finally pass judgment on a lifestyle choice, Dio.
[/quote]
I’m not judging a lifestyle choice, I’m judging a parenting choice.
I’m going by what she said in the other thread. She said, at the least, that he “orders her around” in front of the kids and that they’ve seen her wearing a dog collar. I’m not guessing, I’m just taking her at her word.
[QUOTE=freekalette]
Diogenes, I’ve given examples of MUTUAL FUCKING RESPECT repeatedly. Just go to hell and leave me to my sick and twisted depravity already.
[/QUOTE]
I’m conncerned about your selfish parenting choices, not your “depravity.” Tryong to frame it as a judgement on sexual choices is just evasive bullshit. Keep it away from your kids, that’s all. You should not be teaching them that women should be subservient to men.
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
But she said he has sex with her whether she consents or not.
[/QUOTE]
No, she never said such a thing. Please show your cite, or retract your statement.
You continue to ignore the fact that a person can consent to an action that the person is not in the mood for at that time. Ever had an operation? Were you in the mood for it? Of course you were not (or if your were, you are a lot freakier than freakalette). Guess why the doctor was not charged? Because you consented.
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
Then why did you ask about it?
[/quote]
So I could print it out and feed it to the neighborhood cats.
Gee, somehow I just have a hunch.
I’m sure they’re going to ask any day now, considering that they’ve been raised with a Christian worldview and brought to a Christian church every week.
But OK. For the sake of argument, I’ll go ahead and accept that it’s not relevant. In which case whether or not I have children isn’t relevant. Thanks for playing, though.
How am I teaching them that women SHOULD be subservient to men? I’ve already said that I told them that sometimes women are the decision makers (terminology that they understand and is age-appropriate) and sometimes the men are, and sometimes it’s equal. How is that telling them what SHOULD happen? The only thing I’ve taught them that they should do is to be open and honest and respectful/nice to others. Yep, screwin’ 'em right up, I am.