“If” being the operative word.
Put my name into the list of those who don’t think that is what ivylass was saying.
Regards,
Shodan
I think that no one here but you read anything into it at all. Are the people in question even black? Does anyone CARE? I hope you don’t kneejerk this badly while you’re driving, you could cause an accident.
The thought that ivylass could have been referring to the woman’s race never even occurred to me either. I mostly just went “ewwwww” because millipedes wig me out. You’re really grasping for something to be offended about here.
First off, Thurgood, I have no idea what her race is. If you want to consider me prejudiced against millipedes, fine. Did you even click on the picture in Matchka’s post?
Secondly, Shayna, you are absolutely right. This story, as it unfolded, kept getting worse and worse, and I have plenty of anger against the caregivers. There is nothing good in this story, except for the hollow comfort that JDS probably does not know what’s going on. That does not excuse the criminal actions of her caregivers. And I absolutely do NOT consider those who put children up for adoption to be abandoners. They are doing an incredibly selfless thing that must be incredibly painful, and I applaud them fore it. This woman had her rights terminated, according to the state. Why would the state lie?
I’ve calmed down a bit, and I realize there’s a lot to this story we still do not know. GDS may be in a position now to care for her daughter. I just find her timing incredibly suspicious.
I’m not a racist, but…I’ve been labeled one in The Pit before.
Maybe this topic should get its own thread if it warrants such discussion? Otherwise let’s drop it and deal with the spirit of the OP. As you will observe, milipedes are indeed black, and DO emit a foul odor. They are creepy things that shun light and eat the vegetative offal of the world–veritable invertibrate (spineless) scum suckers. Growing up in Seattle, many of the milipedes I saw also had a yellow stripe down their backs.
I think the metaphor worked quite well to describe the OP’s feelings about the birth mama. Better than she had anticipated as it turns out. Dragging race into this argument is stupid and, I think, an inappropriate diversion. It’s not what the post was about.
I think she is being too hard on the 14-year old (at the time) mother. I couldn’t remember squat about anything important when I was 14. And I don’t think that’s unusual. That’s why they don’t let 14-year-olds vote, drive cars, buy beer or get married and raise families (despite what their biology may suggest to them)–they ain’t competent. The story as presented paints a bad picture, but I would be more supportive of the rant if mama was in her 20’s when she donated her daughter to the state.
I never said the state was lying. But if you read the article carefully, you’d find that the Judge acknowledged that the state may have wrongfully terminated her parental rights. They may not have properly notified her. And she is claiming that she certainly never voluntarily gave up her parental rights. Why would you assume she’s lying?
Of course there’s a lot we don’t know – like how a 13/14 year old child became pregnant 20 years ago in the first place. Was she raped?! And why she was possibly never notified that the state was seeking to terminate her parental rights. Or why she’s not just suing to have those rights reinstated, but seeking redress from the state, as well. How on earth can you ascribe motives to someone you know absolutely nothing about? And the details regarding the facts of the case in this article are so sketchy as to make forming an opinion one way or another a ridiculous endeavor.
All we know is this: A 14 year old child turns a severely disabled child over to the state to care for. She goes on about living her life, as pretty much everyone who gives up a child does. She learns – through the media, no less (!) – that her child was RAPED and she has a grandchild now. She wants her daughter turned over to her and her sister’s care, only to learn that the state has terminated her parental rights without her knowledge or consent and awarded guardianship to someone else. She seeks legal counsel in an effort to reverse the termination of her rights, as well as possible damages on her daughter’s behalf.
Why would this make her a “gold digger”? If she gets custody and control of her daughter returned to her, and it’s shown that revoking her parental rights was illegal in the first place, as the child’s guardian, she has every right to sue for damages on the child’s behalf. And if she’s going to be caring for her, she’s going to need that money to pay for the extraordinary expense of caring for a newborn and a severely disabled adult child.
I simply don’t understand why you’re so angry about that.
Um, speak for yourself there, buddy.
When I read the OP, the word “racist” never even crossed my mind. Feel free to state your own opinion, but don’t assume the rest of us feel the same.
Yeesh.
Chances are that the 14 year old girl that terminated her rights to her severely retarded child had to in order to have the best care for her. In order for the state to intervene the child has to have no parent. A 14-16 year old girl could not handle a child of this level of disability.
It is a shitty situation all around and all I can think of is EWEEE about the director’s perverted twisted husband…hang him by his balls…
Oh, for the record, I never read the OP as racist at all.
Shirley, the woman didn’t terminate her rights at all – not even when she was a 14 year old child. The state terminated her rights in 1995, based on the fact that she’d had no contact with the child since the child had been 2 or 3 years old.
Florida DCF isn’t commenting on the case, except to say that they have a “policy” to notify parents of termination proceedings. That doesn’t mean that they did so in this case. And that’s exactly what the mother is contending.
And to reiterate, she’s not simply suing for financial redress on behalf of her daughter, she wants care, custody and control of her child and her grandchild…
My heart breaks for her. Can you imagine the fear and anguish of being a 13 or 14 year old girl, being pregnant in the first place, and then giving birth to a child with such severe developmental problems. I’m sure she didn’t have the first idea how to cope with something that extreme. Hell, children that age can’t cope with having healthy babies. Adults often can’t handle children with those kinds of special needs.
So she does what she thinks is the best thing for her daughter and turns her over to a state agency to care for her. It would appear that she made an effort in the beginning to continue contact and at least visit from time to time. But that had to be extraordinarily painful and difficult for a 14, 15, 16 year old girl. All she probably wanted to do was be a kid and have as normal a life as possible.
I’ll bet that not a single day has gone by that she hasn’t thought about her child and prayed that she made the right decision to leave her in the state’s care. And then to find out through a reporter that her child had been raped and she has a grandchild, had to have been anguishing.
So she says, “Give me my daughter and grandchild, I want to take care of them myself now.” And the state responds, “Sorry, we terminated your parental rights years ago. She has another guardian now, so you can’t have her.”
It’s so unclear whether proper notification took place that the Circuit judge “issued a scathing order that criticized DCF and called for more information about [the girl’s] family.” (bolding mine)
Somehow, though, DCF managed to be unable to find the mother, yet the press didn’t seem to have a problem at all. Hmmm. Makes you wonder how hard DCF tried.
It’s amazing how much nobility you are assigning to the mother. She gave the child up (and I’m not saying she was wrong to do it. It was probably the correct decision) and had no contact with the child for years. The state terminated her parental rights, whether they notified her correctly or not, and it wasn’t until there was a chance for a lawsuit that she came forward.
Come on. No one here thinks a lawyer didn’t see the case, look her up and lay it all out for her? The majority of the posters in the thread believe that, instead of financial motive, she was so moved by the plight of her daughter with whom she hasn’t had contact for years, she wants to take care of her. And the baby.
please.
She’s looking for the lottery and it merely compounds the tragedy of the story.
And it’s amazing how much greed you’re attributing to her. And with flat out wrong “facts,” no less.
Did you even READ the freaking article?!!
She did not “come forward” when there was a chance for a lawsuit. The judge gave an ORDER to DCF last MONTH to find the girl’s family. Did they find her?? No! Did she “come forward” then? No!
Guess who did find her. A television news reporter! And guess when. A month ago, when the court ordered she be found? No, just last weekend. That hardly speaks for DCF giving a good g-d damn about this child’s family. How would you like to learn your daughter had been raped by a 75 year old pig bastard who was entrusted with her care, by having a microphone and camera shoved in your face? Oh, but she “came forward” just to make a buck. Right. I think I know who wants to make a buck here, and it’s the damn media who want the ratings points or to sell more papers with their sensationalist spin.
If I were a terrified 14 year old, having given birth to a severely developmentally challenged child, I wouldn’t be able to raise it, either. You have NO CLUE what kind of family support or lack thereof this CHILD who had a child at such a young age had. You have no idea if her pregnancy were a result of rape or incest. You have no idea if her family FORCED her to give the child up to the state. None.
And now she finds out the state TOTALLY dropped the ball in ensuring her daughter was safe and properly cared for. So she wants her back in her care. And they said she can’t have her, so she’s suing. Why are you only looking at the fact that she’s suing them for their neglegence (on behalf of her daughter), and not at the fact that she’s suing for custody and trying to take on the enormous responsibility of caring for both a severely crippled adult child and an infant?
What’s WRONG with you people? Have you NO compassion?
I for one would be most willing to take the sick fuck who raped this helpless woman out in the back forty and kick his sorry ass until I was too tired to continue.
Who knows what the birth mother is thnking? Maybe she’s had an epiphany and feels that she is ready to take some responsibility for something she could not so many years ago or maybe she’s a gold digging bitch… or maybe I’m not in a position to atttribute motives to what she’s doing.
Taking on the care of a severely disabled individual is a great responsibility… babies are a lot of work too.
Thurgood… you seem to be like a man looking for a black cat in a dark basement… except that cat isn’t really there.
Oh shit… I said black.
I must be a racist too.
(man… I’ve missed this place)
Shayna, I may not be the pinnacle of compassion. I am also not without anger at the DFS in Florida and the scum who perpetuated this awful crime on this poor girl. I also hope like hell you are correct about the mother. However, I really doubt you are.
It’s been what, 14 years, and she has not once seen her child. Not once attempted to ascertain her whereabouts or how she is doing. Yet you ascribe to her the heart of a woebegone mother, who pines away for a lost child, who may have been the victim of rape herself, and who is only thinking about the best for her daughter, now all those years later, and not about a monetary settlement.
I’ll go with the odds and experience and back ivylass on this one. We’ll see how it plays out, and I hope I’m wrong, but I kinda doubt it.
I too would like to believe the best of the birth mother, but 14 years without attempting contact? I dunno . . . .
Welcome the newest member of the Ofenderati, Thurgood!
The odds and experience, Hamlet? Gee, why don’t you tell me what the odds are that a 13 year old CHILD would be sexually promiscuous and happy to get pregnant from it 20 years ago. And then tell me the odds that a CHILD of that age was likely to have been molested. What are the odds that a CHILD of that age would be able to handle the emotional or financial burden of a baby, let alone one with the severe disabilities this one has. And why don’t you tell me the odds that a CHILD of that age who gave up a severely disabled child would visit that child at all, let alone regularly after having done so. Because we all know that every teenage mother who gives up a child should keep track of it forever and ever or be deemed a gold-digging bitch who “abandoned” her child. Right.
IT DOESN’T HAPPEN THAT WAY! Children who have babies don’t make responsible decisions. Children who have babies that severely disabled don’t have the ability to care for them, themselves. Children who give up babies don’t then keep tabs on them for the rest of their lives. THEY MOVE ON. They build their lives. They finish school, hopefully go to college, get married, even have more children.
I may not be able to state much with absolute certainty, but this I can guarantee you – that woman never in a million years expected that her severely disabled child would give her a grandchild. And I’m fairly certain she never dreamed of the possibility that her child would be raped by some scummy bastard who was supposed to be caring for her.
But do we see a Pit thread ranting about the evil, digusting, vile creature who did this to that poor child? Do we have a thread about the DCF who apparently knew this child had family but clearly made no fucking effort to find them? Or a rant about how they licensed that woman to care for disabled children in the first place (it’s not likely that a 75 year old man only now just decides to commit such horrifying acts – odds are that he’s done this many times before and likely has some kind of record)?
No. We have a lovely Pit rant against a woman who was CLEARLY traumatized as a child, herself (don’t even try to tell me that a 13 or 14 year old girl who gets pregnant and has a severely disabled child isn’t traumatized), who didn’t do what you Dopers think she should have done and who, finding out her child’s been raped and she has a grandchild who she wants to raise, is fighting for custody. Yep, that makes sense.
If it were my daughter and granddaughter, I’d sue the fucking bastards who did this to her, or who let it happen, and fight to get custody, too. Even if I hadn’t seen her in 14 years.
Listen, folks, it’s a fact. Using the terms “black” in conjunction with “smelly” to describe someone has racist overtones. I’m sure Ivylass didn’t purposely mean sound racist, but I think it gives a bit of an insight into her true feelings about others.
Well, since YOU are the one connecting black and smelly with persons of color, I think YOU may be the one with a serious racism problem.
Talk about the pot calling the kettle bla…
No, better not.
Damn it, I’m sick of calling the kettle black, can’t we call it Simon?