I’ve explored a number of different religions with true believers and they all have the “inner peace” they want from their religions.
I’ve been presented with Jesus in many forms (often being told by one Christian that the others are going to hell- inner peace or no). I’ve been presented with the one G-d without children with and without post Torah prophets. I’ve been presented with the Hindu panopoly of Gods who some believe are just the various manifestations of the same God. I’ve even been taught by a holy man of Tibeten Buddhism. and I’ve been exposed to the ancestor worship with various dieties that some Chinese believe.
For all those who’ve posted, which should I believe? If I pick one, does that mean the others were lying? Were they just deluded? What if I pick one that says your beliefs are just silly delusions or poor examples of people being led astray from the true path to God/Righteousness/Enlightenment/Inner Peace?
The best explanation that I’ve heard was on the board here by a Jewish poster (I’m afraid I’ve forgotten who) who said he believed (to paraphrase) because his dad said so.
PC
P.S.- One thing that’s struck me is that in listening to numerous tellings of being ‘born again’ or ‘finding Jesus’ is that they almost invariably say there was a hole in their heart that was filled when they found him. Sometimes they say they didn’t realize the hole was there until he filled it. Basically, that believing in him made them feel better (understandably). In research and in life in general, there are many examples of people ending up with mud on their faces because they accepted incomplete evidence about what they wanted to believe was true. These people loose money, their reputations suffer, or they just feel betrayed or hurt. Wanting to believe in something should make you be even more demanding of objective evidence, if you’re looking for that kind of thing.
Otherwise, I suppose one could accept their suspension of disbelief, but not expect everyone to follow suit (especially not in the same way).
And if you would know God be not therefore a solver of riddles.
Rather look about you and you shall see Him playing with your children.
And look into space; you shall see Him
walking in the cloud, outstretching His arms
in the lightning and descending rain.
You shall see Him smiling in flowers,
then rising and waving His hands in trees.
If you’re not particularly convinced that any of them are truly genuine (and it sounds like this is the case), then it would be absurd to ‘pick’ any at all.
But then how did they pick them? They certainly feel theirs is genuine and (I guess) that the others aren’t. How did they get to such certainty, to such certainty that uncertainty is inconceivable (as a number of posters have said). I look at the options (the various gods or dieties, or none of the above) and wonder how they are so certain.
I’ve heard similar cases from friends. One is Muslim, one is non-denominational Christian and one is Mormon. Could you tell which one was involved in your case? I understand the subjective experience is compelling, but which “version” explains your experiences? Could you tell if there was only one “personality” or if it was “all powerful?”
PC
P.S.- I mean no disrespect. I’m usually afraid rocking the boat if I ask too much of some friends, but I don’t want to assume either. In the above cases, they had experiences that they couldn’t explain without some supernatural “influence” they each ascribed to the religious interpretation they’d been exposed to (by family or friends) that they were kind of leaning towards. From their descriptions, the influence (by my interpretation) could have been explained by any number of (conflicting) religions.
No offence taken; it is my impression (and conclusion) that the God I experienced is the Christian one, but that may be just because of some framework that I myself imposed; I did have a marginal ‘Christian’ upbringing, I live in the UK; I had several Christian friends at the time and so on.
It’s hard to describe exactly what I experienced; whenever I try, it sounds (to the person listening) very lame or vague indeed, but internally, this isn’t the case, it’s just very difficult to relate an experience that is not on a par with anything else.
A very poor analogy (but I’m going to use it anyway) would be a jigsaw puzzle; if I found a piece of a puzzle on the pavement one day, I might think nothing of it, but if I found another piece in my desk drawer, another under my pillow, three inside envelopes in the mail, another in the fridge at work, one carefully inserted in a magazine I happened to pick up… (and so on - you get the idea), then I also found that the pieces, despite their diverse origin, fit together into a complete picture, I think I would be justified in suspecting that something was happening. A series of events, most(but not all) of which were individually of little significance added up to something compelling. Of course there’s no objective way to differentiate it from wishful thinking, I accept that but remain convinced that it isn’t wishful thinking.
Oops, I still haven’t quite answered your question; to begin with, I was unable to discern if it was even a person at all, let alone a single personality and eventually grew into something very significantly more; it was like being seduced, much as I like the idea of God being all-powerful, that would have been more like being kidnapped (or worse) at the beginning.
That sounds like a good analogy. I know the experience is more than the description. How do you go from that to Jesus? Does your experience give you faith in the gospels as written as opposed to the Quran or the lone Torah? Does you experience imply “all powerful” or more of a benign influence? I totally accept that it’s subjective and you go with your gut/belief. I guess I’d like to know how people go from the supernatural will to a specific personality/teaching.
In my case, it was when I adopted a mindset of OK, if you’re after me, then do something surprising (and several quite surprising things happened); by this time, I was starting to align with some Christian friends and they were quite an influence, but I don’t feel that they imposed anything contradictory to what I was already experiencing.
I have, since that time had what Czarcasm might describe as ‘wooly feelings’ (although from where I’m sitting they seem not so wooly) that have helped me maintain and reinforce my faith, I have also on two occasions, experienced the ‘voice’ of God, one time it (very likely) resulted in a saved life, the other time it (rather absurdly) resulted in my finding an item belonging to colleague that had been maliciously hidden by other workmates - go figure (I shall take some flak for that second one, I just know it).
If this truly is your position, rather than just a debating point, I would recommend you look into two items: one established spiritual society or, alternatively, one particular book.
The Theosophy Society has gained a certain legitimacy in spite of being founded by a spiritual medium who was pretty clearly a cheerful charlatan, Helena Petrovna Blavatsky. The TS believes that there is a common core of spirituality in all humans; a core that is essentially the same, regardless of trappings. Their meetings are study sessions rather than religious services, hoping to know more of the human spirit by studying all forms of religion. There are two such congregations ( lower-case ‘g’) in the Chicago area, one given to NewAge spirituality and one given to conservative philosophy. Do a Google search and look into it if you’re at all interested.
Or, for your reading pleasure, I highly recommend Tolstoy’s The Kingdom Of God Is Within You. Late in his life, Tolstoy came to the philosophical conclusion that all religions are the same: Pointless dogma for the benefit of the priesthood, taking advantage of the core of Godhood that lives inside each human being. The first part of the book is pretty dry–tight philosophical reasoning (perhaps an oxymoron?)–but the second half, in which he states his conclusions, is fascinating.
But, *PosterChild, how can we tell you which you should beleive? We can tell you what we believe, and why, you’ve already been throught that exercise with a variety of Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists and others. How will your position be improved by repeating the exercise with us?
In the end you have to accept resonsibility for your own beliefs. Others can present beliefs to you, but it will never follow from their presentation that you must or should beleive the same things as they do. You have to decide what appeals to you and what doesn’t, and we can’t do that for you.
Let us know what you decide, of course, and we’ll tell you what we think of your decision and why you got it wrong.
The book beautifully describes the hero’s journey throughout the various mythologies [and religions] of the world. One of the themes that is in most, if not all, myths (Mr. Campbell viewed religions as mythologies) the hero must die to himself (herself/itself/whatever) and be reborn from his ego into a superego which is really a part of a larger conciousness, or part of a godbeing, or part of nirvana, etc.
I am only half-way through the book and I am recommending it to any who ask me what it is that I am reading.
But I think it may help you with your question, cause as UDS says, we can’t help you, you must help yourself.
I feel the same way that you do, PosterChild. I don’t know what to believe. Sometimes I think that there can’t possibly be a God, that he (why is he always portrayed as male? why not she or it?) is just something created in our minds to make us feel as if we aren’t alone and that we have a purpose. When I actually do believe that there is something out there, I ignore conventional ideas of someone who looks like us. I think that God isn’t really a person, and doesn’t even have a definate shape or anything. The best way I can think of to describe it is a big, intelligent ball of energy. It doesn’t interfere with our lives greatly, but everyonce in awhile will give a nudge here and there. As for the afterlife, I think that our souls just dissolve into tiny pieces and spread throughout the universe.
God is only exclusively “He” in the Big 3 (Christianity, Judaism and Islam). And in the more philosophic sects of those religions, it’s recognized that God is not “He” any more than God is “She”.
But if you’re really interested in a religion that gives God and Goddess equal time, check out Wicca or any variety of modern paganism.
jayjay (agnostic/pagan/pantheist/apatheist, in irregular rotation)
